Blasphemy rituals, burning bibles, black masses, ect

[jasonwill2]

In the explicit context of someone still in recent memory and/or emotionally stuck on a past religion in a deep subconscious way, yet still knowing it's all garbage on a completely informed intellectual level, what do you guys think of psychodrama to help the person free themselves emotionally?

I heard a Right-Hand Path follower express that walkers of the Left Hand Path frown upon these, but it occurs to me that this is a very Left Hand thing to do;

Blasphemy, catharsis, and self-initiation

6-6-06: The Satanic High Mass

Just the first two links I could think of.

 

[Erebus]

I'm fairly certain I've given my thoughts on this elsewhere, but it can't hurt to restate them. Blasphemy is a form of taboo breaking which is essentially LHP 101 in my books so naturally I think it can be useful. Having said that in my mind such practices should serve to separate the emotional attachment you have to whatever it is you're desecrating (in this case Christianity) so you should be able to move on from blasphemy pretty swiftly.

Simply put, if after several blasphemy/destruction rituals there is still a strong emotional response to the target then chances are you need to look elsewhere in order to deal with the problem.

 

[Adramelek]

I'm fairly certain I've given my thoughts on this elsewhere, but it can't hurt to restate them. Blasphemy is a form of taboo breaking which is essentially LHP 101 in my books so naturally I think it can be useful. Having said that in my mind such practices should serve to separate the emotional attachment you have to whatever it is you're desecrating (in this case Christianity) so you should be able to move on from blasphemy pretty swiftly.

Simply put, if after several blasphemy/destruction rituals there is still a strong emotional response to the target then chances are you need to look elsewhere in order to deal with the problem.

A voice of Understanding, thanks Shyanekh! My ties to xtianity were never very strong, so I only performed two "black masses" when I first embraced and accepted my True Self as a Black Brother back in the day - if the glove fits... My second black mass ritual was done out of pure fun. :bat:

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton= "Know Thy Self."

 

[Quintessence]

I'm not sure if it can be said that I've done a blasphemy ritual, with respect to the examples listed in the OP, as the form it would take in my path is different. Like Adramelek, I never had particularly strong ties to Christianity since I left that path when I was very young. Instead, I use it to - as mentioned in the OP - free myself from something emotionally that I'm being pressured to adhere to from external influences.

You get taught, for example, in some circles that if you do a "mean" spell there's some cosmic bogeyman who is going to feed you spoonfuls of suffering for your "evil" intentions. It's complete BS, but you hear it so often you start to believe it anyway. You wonder "well, what if they're right and I'm going to screw myself over doing this?"

Then you do it. The world does not come to an end. You receive no "karmic backlash" from the cosmic bogeyman. You have not and will not be punished for what you did. Instead, you realize you just did a spell that gave you an amazing rush of power that also worked beautifully. There are consequences to your actions, yes, but it's hardly the sort of cosmic justice I hear some of these whitelighter New Agers driveling on about.

 

[1137]

I honestly cannot comment from experience. I have no issues with the religion I came from, and my family always has and continues to support me wherever I turn (although my mom has threatened to disown me if I became Christian hahaha). I can see how it would be helpful though. There was a thread on here about someone who was still shaken up by the concept of Hell, and I have heard similar things quite often. I think said rituals would be very useful for such an individual.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

In the explicit context of someone still in recent memory and/or emotionally stuck on a past religion in a deep subconscious way, yet still knowing it's all garbage on a completely informed intellectual level, what do you guys think of psychodrama to help the person free themselves emotionally?

I heard a Right-Hand Path follower express that walkers of the Left Hand Path frown upon these, but it occurs to me that this is a very Left Hand thing to do;

Blasphemy, catharsis, and self-initiation

6-6-06: The Satanic High Mass

Just the first two links I could think of.

I think blasphemy can be fun, but only helpful for yourself if you do it once. On the other hand, there are seven billion people on the Earth, most in need of a good dose of profanity. In that case, you have seven billion reasons to blaspheme.

 

[Infinitum]

I haven't burned Bibles, haven't done any black masses and I'm not sure about blasphemy, but I think freeing yourself from outside influence is very important on your path. As long as you are emotionally or intellectually tied to outside sources your personal growth is stalled, since you dwell on ideas that aren't taking you anywhere. How you do this is up to you. For some the traditional Satanistic might work, but it's important to understand they're not written in stone. For me they wouldn't work, for example. They never attracted me and I created my own rituals for working with my past. I think many Satanistic practices are too "sharp" in a way. They are extremely rebellious, tearing the psyche apart without providing anything to safely fall back on. But the basic idea works, I'll agree on that.

 

[MacKinnon]

Utterly pointless. A burned book isn't much use to anybody, and a black mass isn't impressive to anybody except those it may upset. If your goal is to upset people, then great, otherwise it's just a cry for attention, I think.

 

[1137]

I've changed my position on this. First of all I didn't even realize it said "burning bibles", I think that is just utterly immature and unevolved. As for blasphemy rituals and such, you are staying bound to your previous religion, simply doing so in a negative way. It is completely pointless to do such things. I think the line of thought that blasphemy and such frees us is exactly what people should try to avoid. There is a huge difference between being blasphemous towards and free of certain ideals. To do things such as this is simply to hold yourself back.

 

[jasonwill2]

Utterly pointless. A burned book isn't much use to anybody, and a black mass isn't impressive to anybody except those it may upset. If your goal is to upset people, then great, otherwise it's just a cry for attention, I think.

I've changed my position on this. First of all I didn't even realize it said "burning bibles", I think that is just utterly immature and unevolved. As for blasphemy rituals and such, you are staying bound to your previous religion, simply doing so in a negative way. It is completely pointless to do such things. I think the line of thought that blasphemy and such frees us is exactly what people should try to avoid. There is a huge difference between being blasphemous towards and free of certain ideals. To do things such as this is simply to hold yourself back.

I think both of you are reacting negatively because of the stigma attached to the taboo. That is an influence from society I would say, and the rite of blasphemy such as a Black Mass or burning a Bible or whatever, is to destroy not just the taboo, but the emotional attachment one might of had in their past to the things that the symbol being destroyed represented. In the case of a Black Mass, it can be someone's past orthodoxy that they now intellectually abandon, but still may have some emotions over. The Black Mass serves as as symbolic way to "destroy" their emotions on it.

Same with burning a Bible, the Bible represents the emotions, attachment, agnst, ect, tied to a Juedo-Christian society or upbringing, and the flames represent the "burning" or going away of those emotions.

I find it interesting that self-professed walkers of the Left Hand Path would call a heterodox practice like this "immature". From a magickal and psychological perspective, why do either of you think this would not be beneficial to someone? I would think that this labeling of "immature" is an emotional reaction, because somehow the fact that this happens on The Left Hand Path embarrasses you guys? If it does, then perhaps you need to destroy that hold over you, because blasphemy is just one way someone can break the hold something had over them. Honestly I think you guys either willfully decide to be averted to it emotionally because of how you want to be perceived by society, your just ignorant on the relevant psychological mechanics, or you really are still affected by society enough to unconsciously still be disgusted by a meaningless taboo.

If you didn't think I was talking about breaking chains when i said black masses, ect, then what did you think I was talking about? I gave links to a couple of groups that have information on it, or have done it. I can get many, many more.

I also find it interesting that someone would think that an act done in privacy is for attention. You might have a slight amount of merit such as when the Church of Satan did their Black Mass back in 2006, but otherwise, you do not.

If either if you wish to more fully explain your position, go ahead. I won't refute it though because I don't want this to devolve into another debate, as this wasn't intended as a debate and isn't in the same faith debates section. I'll just have to politely say I disagree and leave it at that.

 

[1137]

I think both of you are reacting negatively because of the stigma attached to the taboo. That is an influence from society I would say, and the rite of blasphemy such as a Black Mass or burning a Bible or whatever, is to destroy not just the taboo, but the emotional attachment one might of had in their past to the things that the symbol being destroyed represented. In the case of a Black Mass, it can be someone's past orthodoxy that they now intellectually abandon, but still may have some emotions over. The Black Mass serves as as symbolic way to "destroy" their emotions on it.

Actually, committing taboos is done due to society, being indifferent is being free. One commits taboo acts because they know society frowns on it, and they find it freeing. As I said, this is not freeing yourself, it is binding yourself to society, simply in a negative way. If I was Christian, left it, and base my rituals against blasphemy towards it, I am not free of it. I am just as bound to it, but now in a negative and agressive way.

Same with burning a Bible, the Bible represents the emotions, attachment, agnst, ect, tied to a Juedo-Christian society or upbringing, and the flames represent the "burning" or going away of those emotions.

Unnecessary destruction. I would bet that it actually has more negative psychological effects than positive, you are still bound to what you hate and conditioning yourself to be aggressive / hateful / destructive / etc.

I find it interesting that self-professed walkers of the Left Hand Path would call a heterodox practice like this "immature".

These ones are immature in my opinion, yes. I find it interesting that a self-professed lhper would want to stay tied to the right hand path religions in any way, let them influence their lives. Also, having taboo practices is being a slave to society same as a RHPer is. Not caring about society is a whole different thing all together.

From a magickal and psychological perspective, why do either of you think this would not be beneficial to someone?

I explained this. First of all, it is not psychologically freeing, just negativvely binding. Instead of letting go of, say, Christianity you hold onto it just as tightly but from a polarized perspective. Also, conditioning your mind in destructive and negative ways is never healthy.

I would think that this labeling of "immature" is an emotional reaction, because somehow the fact that this happens on The Left Hand Path embarrasses you guys?

Kind of right, it does embarrass me that this is the modern interpretation of following the left hand path. First of all, the idea of enforcing no taboos on yourself is illogical, it is paradoxical. I find paradoxes embarrassing. Also, I find it silly that the LHP has become all about society. I follow this path because I am not a big fan of society, I really do not give a **** about it. I hate being associated with people so enslaved by society that their practiced are based around the taboo and blasphemous.

If it does, then perhaps you need to destroy that hold over you, because blasphemy is just one way someone can break the hold something had over them. Honestly I think you guys either willfully decide to be averted to it emotionally because of how you want to be perceived by society, your just ignorant on the relevant psychological mechanics, or you really are still affected by society enough to unconsciously still be disgusted by a meaningless taboo/

Blasphemy is not letting go, it is negating. There is a difference between letting go of ideals and negating them. As I said, I really do not care about society, but you obviously crave society to recognize you have issues with it. As for the taboo, having no taboos is paradoxical, as said. I once followed the inverted RHP for a while, until I realized that having taboos had become my taboos. Also, not having self limits it immature, in my opinion. The idea the I am the all is awful, we have to take into consideration the fact that we are part of a whole, and we cannot just go do whatever. For example, I find it personally "taboo" to interfere with the will of others, as doing such is as un-lhp as it gets. The path is about self perfection, liberation, etc, not shocking society (whether publicly known or not) and being bound to its dislikes. I realize the psychological usefulness of it, just as I realize the psychological usefulness of community, conformity, and the RHP. That does not mean I think the RHP is the path to take. If one is psychologically liberated by violating society's laws, I see that as mental immaturity. If people want to have anal sex while spitting on a cross in front of a human head (frubal for whoever gets the reference) I see that as mentally weak.

I also find it interesting that someone would think that an act done in privacy is for attention. You might have a slight amount of merit such as when the Church of Satan did their Black Mass back in 2006, but otherwise, you do not.

It is not about society knowing, it is about knowing that one is doing something that society would consider "taboo". Either way, I am not nearly bound to society enough to practice these useless acts.

 

[jasonwill2]

Then I will just have to disagree with you.

Kind of right, it does embarrass me that this is the modern interpretation of following the left hand path. quote]

Actually, the historical Left Hand Path, from which the term "Left Hand Path" comes from, Vamachara was very into breaking taboos. It isn't the "modern interpretation", it's rooted strongly into how the LHP was practiced for over a thousand years before modern Western movement.

Just a little correction is all.

 

[Infinitum]

Okay so, I agree with both Jason and Doors here. Doors took up many important poins, and I think it's important to talk a little bit more about them. Rituals like these are all about the inner workings, and finding the balance between the inner and the outer is very important. Burning the Bible is mainly seen as an outer act and I think it's often used wrong as simply a sign of rebellion or as an attempt to add shock value. It can be a sign of spite towards Christians in general, but - and here comes the important part - it can also be a way of dealing with your own feelings related to the book. I know Christians who develop a very strong relationship with the Bible, in my opinion sometimes fringing to an addiction. A LHP practicioner with a past like this might want to free himself from a negative association like this, and then burning the Bible is burning an addiction. However if this isn't the case, the Bible is simply an outer sign of a faith you don't belong to, and burning it will simply cause more negative feelings in you towards Christians instead of giving you peace. Magick is all about the intent.

Breaking a taboo should never be about simply breaking it. There must be a positive gain from it - this is basic cognitive psychology. In order for a ritual to work, you have to follow a few basic rules. Here's a layout of a positive working:
State an intent (freeing oneself from negative attachments) >> Provide a means of manifestation (item, idea, place, mental state; example: Bible = dependency to outer ideas) >> Work your will on the manifestation (dispose of the Bible) * >> State a new more desirable reality (spend 30 minutes writing down what you want and what you believe) ** >> Give time to normalize & manifest (7-14 days).

* It's easy to stop the ritual here, but there's a risk of leaving yourself in a negative, destructive state. Your mind easily attaches itself to the outer aspects (burning a book, "I'm a rebel!") instead of taking in the important inner aspects (changing the mindset, "I am free!"). Although I'm sure it may work for some, I strongly recommend designing the ritual better than that.

** I could call this the Clay State. You have just hurt your psyche and forced it into a state that isn't natural to it. If you leave it there your mind will naturally fall back to it's previous state, or it might just as well pick up any negative "energy" (trait, idea, stance) floating by. You need to be very firm with that you want the psyche to do (keep the intent simple!) and then form it to the new shape, like clay. You have to understand the underlying psychology behind the working, or your new reality might not end up matching with what you were looking for.


PS. No, it's not the Gjallarhorn State.

 

[jasonwill2]

Okay so, I agree with both Jason and Doors here. Doors took up many important poins, and I think it's important to talk a little bit more about them. Rituals like these are all about the inner workings, and finding the balance between the inner and the outer is very important. Burning the Bible is mainly seen as an outer act and I think it's often used wrong as simply a sign of rebellion or as an attempt to add shock value. It can be a sign of spite towards Christians in general, but - and here comes the important part - it can also be a way of dealing with your own feelings related to the book. I know Christians who develop a very strong relationship with the Bible, in my opinion sometimes fringing to an addiction. A LHP practicioner with a past like this might want to free himself from a negative association like this, and then burning the Bible is burning an addiction. However if this isn't the case, the Bible is simply an outer sign of a faith you don't belong to, and burning it will simply cause more negative feelings in you towards Christians instead of giving you peace. Magick is all about the intent.

Breaking a taboo should never be about simply breaking it. There must be a positive gain from it - this is basic cognitive psychology. In order for a ritual to work, you have to follow a few basic rules. Here's a layout of a positive working:
State an intent (freeing oneself from negative attachments) >> Provide a means of manifestation (item, idea, place, mental state; example: Bible = dependency to outer ideas) >> Work your will on the manifestation (dispose of the Bible) * >> State a new more desirable reality (spend 30 minutes writing down what you want and what you believe) ** >> Give time to normalize & manifest (7-14 days).

* It's easy to stop the ritual here, but there's a risk of leaving yourself in a negative, destructive state. Your mind easily attaches itself to the outer aspects (burning a book, "I'm a rebel!") instead of taking in the important inner aspects (changing the mindset, "I am free!"). Although I'm sure it may work for some, I strongly recommend designing the ritual better than that.

** I could call this the Clay State. You have just hurt your psyche and forced it into a state that isn't natural to it. If you leave it there your mind will naturally fall back to it's previous state, or it might just as well pick up any negative "energy" (trait, idea, stance) floating by. You need to be very firm with that you want the psyche to do (keep the intent simple!) and then form it to the new shape, like clay. You have to understand the underlying psychology behind the working, or your new reality might not end up matching with what you were looking for.


PS. No, it's not the Gjallarhorn State.

I've only ever burned Bibles in the privacy of my own home, and haven't told anyone I know in real life about it, just where it's relevant on this religious forum. So I'd say something like that can't be considered rebellion if one like me lives alone... lol who am I rebelling against? My dog and cats? I'm sure burning Bibles got them worrying and their attention real quick. :sarcastic There isn't any Christians that I have to obey. My landlord is more or less either a deist or an atheist, I can't tell which, and he's the only human with real power over me in my life.

So ya, maybe it can go the way Doors said, but I've never felt that, and I think it's terrible generalize it going that way. It can just as well be beneficial if you know what your doing and are adequately prepared.

 

[Adramelek]

the rite of blasphemy such as a Black Mass or burning a Bible or whatever, is to destroy not just the taboo, but the emotional attachment one might of had in their past to the things that the symbol being destroyed represented. In the case of a Black Mass, it can be someone's past orthodoxy that they now intellectually abandon, but still may have some emotions over. The Black Mass serves as as symbolic way to "destroy" their emotions on it.

:clapI like this analysis, thanks Jason.

/Adramelek\

 

[MacKinnon]

The taboo of doing either has little to do with my lack of appreciation for them. I meant exactly what I said, that it was pointless and unimpressive except to those who may be offended by those acts in the first place. A less destructive and frankly more honest and impressive thing to do would be to simply make a statement that the previous religion/creed/way is no longer something you are of a disposition to entertain as worthwhile.

 

[NIX]

I find it interesting how people of every supposed walk find it necessary to make judgements and assumptions about others on the same path and what they do, and what motivates them- ect. I don't know WHY I tend to think that people on the LHP should be beyond this sort of thing- but apparently people are people.

That said, burning a thing to ashes is burning a thing to ashes. People are oddly hypersensitive over the idea of the burning of a book. When you toss a book down into the inSinerator-- what do you think happens to it? Do you think it might offend your neighbors? What if you simply don't want your bible anymore, in your home- in your life and you want to throw it out and you live in a city building with an incinerator that burns the trash down in the basement.

MAGICAL EXERCISE SUGGESTION-
Toss a book into a fire- any book- and see if it magically 'turns' you "immature".

 

[NIX]

Originally Posted by jasonwill2
the rite of blasphemy such as a Black Mass or burning a Bible or whatever, is to destroy not just the taboo, but the emotional attachment one might of had in their past to the things that the symbol being destroyed represented. In the case of a Black Mass, it can be someone's past orthodoxy that they now intellectually abandon, but still may have some emotions over. The Black Mass serves as as symbolic way to "destroy" their emotions on it.

It can also put you way out beyond your fears, on the other side so to speak ... stepping you out into a whole new paradigm of being.

 

[Adramelek]

You know NIX, for some people burning books is a socially contrived stigma, which LHPathers should be evolved beyond. Amorally speaking there is nothing good or bad about it, the magical and symbolic implications are purely subjective and personally determined.

/Adramelek\

 

[NIX]

You know NIX, for some people burning books is a socially contrived stigma, which LHPathers should be evolved beyond. Amorally speaking there is nothing good or bad about it, the magical and symbolic implications are purely subjective and personally determined.

/Adramelek\

That was well stated. We throw out papers with words and ink and print on them every day. Kids' school papers, old term papers, magazines, outdated lists and schedules, flyers, advertisements, pages with mistakes or incorrect information (or things we just don't like) on them, etc etc etc. If these things were all bound with a spine and a cover, would it suddenly not be okay anymore to throw them away?

Do you think a christian or a muslim would hesitate to throw a bound book of pornography into a fire?