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Blame the poor mentality

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
This mentality of blaming the poor for their unfortunate circumstances isn't new (think social darwinism), but now it contributes to arguements against safety networks for the poor and middle class.

From the (anti-religion) left, I have a few questions:

Did Jesus ever blame the poor?
Buddha?
Moses?
Lao Tse?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Blaming the victims of any sort of misfortune is a common human practice. We do it because we are frightened of the idea that misfortune could befall us at any time and that there's nothing that we can about it, really. So we like to pretend that it just isn't so. But to maintain this pretense, we have to explain away all those instances in which it occurs to other people, and that means we have to find a way of blaming their misfortunes on something or someone that we imagine could have been prevented, or could have prevented it if they really wanted to (like us). That way, we can tell ourselves that what happened to them can't happen to us because we're better/smarter/more prepared/or whatever than they were.

We blame the poor for being poor so that we can pretend that what's happened to them can't happen to us. And if we feel that we're somewhat to blame for their being poor, we want to excuse that away as well, of course.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
The poor are also pretty easy targets in the sense that they aren't able to protest the blaming. As with any group, it's the most eccentric of us that gets the focus when someone is looking for an excuse to lay their issues on a group. "They take everything and don't give anything back" is a claim that I've heard lobbed about. If I counter this with my volunteer efforts and those who've helped alongside me, then we're called either the 'exeption' (sp) or I'm accused of lying.

It's hurtful, because it's as if I'm being called a parasite or that my income somehow makes me less of a person. I try not to get angry at the people who've formed this opinion- they don't know me and they have a very strong opinion that they have every right to. I just... It's like I cease to become worthwhile in certain debates because I feel that my opinion isn't as worthwhile. I know that's something that no one can convince me of unless I'm able to be convinced, but if you hear it enough times, it becomes convincing.
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
Blaming someone when you don't know anything about the situation and the causes, is not a rational thing to do.

However, that does not exclude pointing to the fact of responsibility and the possibility of one's own mistakes. I know a beggar who lives out on the street because, well, that's his thing. Does that prove that all beggars lead their lives that way because of their own choice or mistakes? No. That's why God gave us speech and research, to understand the reasons behind it.

Neither blaming anyone nor absolving them a priori is the good, rational thing to do.
 

bflydad

Member
It's hurtful, because it's as if I'm being called a parasite or that my income somehow makes me less of a person. I try not to get angry at the people who've formed this opinion- they don't know me and they have a very strong opinion that they have every right to. I just... It's like I cease to become worthwhile in certain debates because I feel that my opinion isn't as worthwhile. I know that's something that no one can convince me of unless I'm able to be convinced, but if you hear it enough times, it becomes convincing.

well, I think your opinion is worthwhile. :yes: I also very much enjoy reading your posts. They are always well thought out.

This may be a little off-topic but I was reading (I can't remember where) that the idea as the poor being bad came from the Protestants. Apparently (correct me if I am wrong), they were told that God has already chosen who will be going to heaven and who won't be. There is no way to know who is on which list. However, God will reward those who are going to heaven by giving them more while on Earth. Therefore, if you are doing well, it is an indication that you may be going to Heaven. Hence, the desire to be seen as doing well on Earth by making lots of money.

Has anyone else ever heard this?
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
It's hurtful, because it's as if I'm being called a parasite or that my income somehow makes me less of a person.

Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but the word "parasite" made me think of something. One and a half century ago, during the Congrès de la Paix (chaired by Victor Hugo) in 1849, the following words were written down:

"la patrie sans la frontière,
le budget sans le parasitisme,
le commerce sans la douane,
l’éducation sans l’abrutissement,
la jeunesse sans la caserne,
le courage sans le combat,
la justice sans l’échafaud,
la vérité sans le dogme"

Budget without parasitism. I always found it strange that some people refer to the (subsidized) poor as "parasites". Parasites, the very definition of it, are not "things" that receive something (in casu: from the government), but that take something. We can only conclude the only parasite is the government or the political classes (cf. the theory of the political class of for example Bastiat, Oppenheimer, Nock, Rothbard and Konkin instead of the mainstream Marxist class theory).

Some say: "These poor, these people on welfare, they are parasites," but one cannot deny the fact that it is not the poor who take the money, they are merely given something. Sure, they can be the reason why it is taken (because of bourgeois empathy or socialist activism, to name two reasons), but for that, they are not to blame, the system is.
 

jacquie4000

Well-Known Member
It's hurtful, because it's as if I'm being called a parasite or that my income somehow makes me less of a person. I try not to get angry at the people who've formed this opinion- they don't know me and they have a very strong opinion that they have every right to. I just... It's like I cease to become worthwhile in certain debates because I feel that my opinion isn't as worthwhile. I know that's something that no one can convince me of unless I'm able to be convinced, but if you hear it enough times, it becomes convincing.

awe..Feather's I do understand how you feel. Even though I do not struggle now, I did for many many years in order to be with my son more because I thought that was more important to me and I am still glad it was the choice I made. If people can not truely see the beauty inside of you and know who you really are, then they are the one who are losing.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
The poor are also pretty easy targets in the sense that they aren't able to protest the blaming. As with any group, it's the most eccentric of us that gets the focus when someone is looking for an excuse to lay their issues on a group. "They take everything and don't give anything back" is a claim that I've heard lobbed about. If I counter this with my volunteer efforts and those who've helped alongside me, then we're called either the 'exeption' (sp) or I'm accused of lying.

It's hurtful, because it's as if I'm being called a parasite or that my income somehow makes me less of a person. I try not to get angry at the people who've formed this opinion- they don't know me and they have a very strong opinion that they have every right to. I just... It's like I cease to become worthwhile in certain debates because I feel that my opinion isn't as worthwhile. I know that's something that no one can convince me of unless I'm able to be convinced, but if you hear it enough times, it becomes convincing.
I know how you feel Feathers. We've have financial instability for awhile now and things are finally looking up. Don't let those people get you down though. They aren't any more important, intelligent, interesting, or worthwhile than you. And personally, I think you're great. :yes:
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
How come sometimes the last post in a thread doesn't match up with what the main page says is the last post?
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Because picties (like pixies, only Scottish and scarier) are constantly devouring our posts. (Thank you for your words of wisdom. :hug:)
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Some observations I've made in relation to the topic at hand:

20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

30 The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common.
33 With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all.
34 There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35 and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.

6 Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper,
7 a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table.
8 But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor."

Marx and Jesus, opposites on the theology scale, saw the disaster caused by a society that put down the poor. Does anyone else think Acts 4:30 describes socialism?
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Ugh...and now it seems it won't go to page 2. I'm mainly posting this so I can see that last response...lol.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
The Book of Mormon:

3 And they had all things common among them; therefor there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift

15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.

Nephi 4
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
Marx and Jesus, opposites on the theology scale, saw the disaster caused by a society that put down the poor. Does anyone else think Acts 4:30 describes socialism?

What makes you think that socialism is the way to deal with poverty?
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
What makes you think that socialism is the way to deal with poverty?

I'm still debating with myself if I'm a far-left capitalist or a socialist, but from my observations a true socialist society would funnel the excessive billions to the worker ants of society. A radical departure from what we're used to, but so was abolishing slavery.
 
M

Majikthise

Guest
I'm still debating with myself if I'm a far-left capitalist or a socialist, but from my observations a true socialist society would funnel the excessive billions to the worker ants of society. A radical departure from what we're used to, but so was abolishing slavery.

I'm curious. By worker ants, do you mean tose who live off of welfare and trumped up disability claims ,or people like me and my wife who both work to make enough money to raise our children , keep a roof over their heads and food on the table while giving about 20% of our income for gov programs to support welfare and the like? I don't take any hand outs , I do the handing out while barely hanging on myself. :sarcastic
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
John 9:1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." NIV

I believe that Jesus saw this as an opportunity to SERVE mankind. Why don't we?
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
I'm still debating with myself if I'm a far-left capitalist or a socialist, but from my observations a true socialist society would funnel the excessive billions to the worker ants of society. A radical departure from what we're used to, but so was abolishing slavery.

I don't know if calling people "worker ants" is the right attitude to deal with them. I myself am a libertarian, both a socialist and a capitalist one - it doesn't really matter to me - but excuse me if I shiver at the word "redistribution" or "nationalized".
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
I don't know if calling people "worker ants" is the right attitude to deal with them. I myself am a libertarian, both a socialist and a capitalist one - it doesn't really matter to me - but excuse me if I shiver at the word "redistribution" or "nationalized".

Yes, a centralized power doesn't sink well with me, either. That is why I plan to vote for the Green Party. I think socialist policies could be employed at smaller levels than the federal government.

I'm curious. By worker ants, do you mean tose who live off of welfare and trumped up disability claims ,or people like me and my wife who both work to make enough money to raise our children , keep a roof over their heads and food on the table while giving about 20% of our income for gov programs to support welfare and the like? I don't take any hand outs , I do the handing out while barely hanging on myself.

Primarily you. If someone is able to work, they can either refuse assistance by not working or they can contribute to the larger community. After all, there are individuals who would chose to live without a home, and we should respect them for that.
 
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