Black Athene

[gnostic]

I have never got around to investigating the Black Athene. I believed that someone wrote a book about Black Athene.

Now I've come across Black Demeter in Greek mythology, but not Black Athene.

(Black Demeter is a local legend in Arcadia, where the goddess Demeter was raped by Poseidon, when they were both in the forms of horses, and she gave birth to a daughter, known only by her title - Desponia; her real name is known by the Arcadian mystery cult. She was called Black Demeter, because she was angry with Poseidon and for the loss of her daughter Persephone. But I am not interested in Demeter.)

Does anyone know about this Black Athene? Is there a myth or legend in regarding to the Black Athene?

Thanks.

 

[Orontes]

I have never got around to investigating the Black Athene. I believed that someone wrote a book about Black Athene.

Now I've come across Black Demeter in Greek mythology, but not Black Athene.

(Black Demeter is a local legend in Arcadia, where the goddess Demeter was raped by Poseidon, when they were both in the forms of horses, and she gave birth to a daughter, known only by her title - Desponia; her real name is known by the Arcadian mystery cult. She was called Black Demeter, because she was angry with Poseidon and for the loss of her daughter Persephone. But I am not interested in Demeter.)

Does anyone know about this Black Athene? Is there a myth or legend in regarding to the Black Athene?

Thanks.

Hello,

Black Athena is not a myth or legend. It is/was a book by a Martin Bernal. The thrust of Bernal's thesis was that Greek Culture was not indigenous, but was basically the byproduct of Egypt (and also Mesopotamia). The work came out in the late Eighties as I recall. It quickly moved from the academic arena to being a popular reference among Afrocentrist thinkers and therefore became political. As far as Classical scholarship is concerned, Bernal's notion has received little support. His work is seen as possessing too many contradicted claims and unsupported assertions: in short an agenda void of substance. Mary Leftkowitz is a simple example of a Classicist who effectively took Bernal's position to task.

 

[Melissa G]

Black Athena, is as has just been stated, a construct of Afro-Centrism, and has nothing to do with Greek Myths, Bernal's claims also cover a Black Sphinx, Black Egyptians, Black Cleopatra, and should accordingly be dismissed as Racist Posturing.

Melissa G

 

[gnostic]

I must have seen the book in the library, but never picked it up to read about it and I don't remember which library I saw this book, and I was curious about what this is all about.

Thank you, Orontes and Melissa, for clearing this up. Now I can give up this fruitless venture.

 

[rhys]

It is worth noting, however, that Bernal was a very major scholar, and it is silly to dismiss his work because it goes against one's prejudices.

 

[Willamena]

You may find some reference to the "black" Athena under the name Nikta in Greece, Anath or Ath-enna in Canaan/Palestine, and as Neith in Lybia or Nut in Egypt. The variations of an archaic image of Athena are associated through her symbols and mythological imagery, handed down from Neolithic and Palaeolithic times, and with the goddesses Metis and Medusa and her twin, Pallas or Pales/Pan.

Nikta is known only from the Orphic Mysteries recorded in The Theogyny of Hesiod.

Possessing powers greater than all other deities,
Nikta came forth from primordial choas,
black as the midnight heavens,
and then gave birth to day,
and then gave birth to all of airy space.

From Nikta came forth the Sister Gorgons,
Sthenno, Euryale and Medusa.
From Nikta came forth the Sister Hesperides,
Aigle, Erytheia and Arethusa,
those who guard the golden apple trees
that grow in an orchard of the westernmost lands,
yet are owned by Mother Gaia,
who gave them as a wedding gift to Hera.
From Nikta came forth the Sister Fates,
Klotho, Lachesis and Athropos,
thos who allot life's destiny
and punish those who go against life's law.

Her black wings sheltering Her nest,
Nikta brought forth the Egg in the Wind,
the egg from which Erotic love, Eros,
came into the world at the beginning of time--
so that the race of mortals might begin.

 

[gnostic]

It is worth noting, however, that Bernal was a very major scholar, and it is silly to dismiss his work because it goes against one's prejudices.

I am only dismissing it because I am only interested in mythology, not one's view in just Greek culture was being influenced by civilisation Africa and Asia. I have no doubt about such influences, but I am only interested in the goddess Athene.

 

[NubianGoddess]

These are simply facts. Black eyptians, black cleopatra and black Sphinx have nothing to do with afro centrism but rather with right knowlegde. The things are are right out of africa, and maybe if your are not aware africa is a black continent. The sphinx is thousands of years older than any greek statues or monuments of sorts and was built for Pharoah Khafra who is obviously a black man. Do a little research and you will find these FACTS quite easily. And as for your quote _ In the beginning when the earth was without form and void, 1 thing did exist and that was DARKNESS! We have been around forever. The simple colors tells you this- all colors come out of black and the only way to create black is to combine all the colors in the spectrum.<
<

Black Athena, is as has just been stated, a construct of Afro-Centrism, and has nothing to do with Greek Myths, Bernal's claims also cover a Black Sphinx, Black Egyptians, Black Cleopatra, and should accordingly be dismissed as Racist Posturing.

Melissa G

 

[Mr Cheese]

actually Egyptians were often quite light skinned
I know, my girl friend was born just outside of Alexandria in Egypt....

I think she'd know...

 

[gnostic]

These are simply facts. Black eyptians, black cleopatra and black Sphinx have nothing to do with afro centrism but rather with right knowlegde. The things are are right out of africa, and maybe if your are not aware africa is a black continent. The sphinx is thousands of years older than any greek statues or monuments of sorts and was built for Pharoah Khafra who is obviously a black man.

I don't think Cleopatra was black. She was descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander's generals, hence of Macedonian/Greek origin, not black African origin.

Her ancestors, since the first Ptolemy, may have married into native Egyptian and one stage or another, but often the marriages took place between siblings, or cousins.

And if you take look at the majority of painting, and painted statures or figurines, that survived before Ptolemy's arrival, many of them weren't black. There were Libyan dynasties and Sudanese (Nubian) dynasties (of the Late Period), which may account for some "black" rulers of the time, but during the Old Kingdom, Middle and New Kingdom periods they weren't largely depicted with dark skin.

And as I said, Cleopatra wasn't black. Even the depiction of Cleopatra on minted coins showed that she have lost none of Macedonian feature, namely her nose.

 

[Father Heathen]

These are simply facts. Black eyptians, black cleopatra and black Sphinx have nothing to do with afro centrism but rather with right knowlegde. The things are are right out of africa, and maybe if your are not aware africa is a black continent. The sphinx is thousands of years older than any greek statues or monuments of sorts and was built for Pharoah Khafra who is obviously a black man. Do a little research and you will find these FACTS quite easily. And as for your quote _ In the beginning when the earth was without form and void, 1 thing did exist and that was DARKNESS! We have been around forever. The simple colors tells you this- all colors come out of black and the only way to create black is to combine all the colors in the spectrum.<
<

What the hell does the color spectrum have to do with race? Also, one could easily take the human remains from these ancient cultures and examine the bone structure of skeletons, hair and tissues samples from mummies, etc., in order to determine their racial background.

 

[ecnal]

Well they sure weren't caucasian, sure as Jesus wasn't blonde haired & blue-eyed. I agree that we are all one race, but I'd say there's plenty of support for the claims that our ancestors were all a bit darker than many of us care to imagine.

 

[xkatz]

I think it is mythology related but ultimately became incorporated into Afro-Centrism.

 

[Apion]

Frankly anyone with the name "NubianGoddess" makes it obvious where their head's at and likely to stay. Afrocentric Egypt doesn't fly in contemporary archaeology. Here's the best attempt at a reconstruction to date, and with plenty of self portrait paintings and statues the afrocentric case just plummets:

King Tut's New Face: Behind the Forensic Reconstruction

I love this site and the very first section is quite apropos to this discussion:

http://hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Topics

 

[ecnal]

Frankly anyone with the name "NubianGoddess" makes it obvious where their head's at and likely to stay. Afrocentric Egypt doesn't fly in contemporary archaeology. Here's the best attempt at a reconstruction to date, and with plenty of self portrait paintings and statues the afrocentric case just plummets:



I love this site and the very first section is quite apropos to this discussion:



Or maybe She has a healthy pride in both race & gender. In any case, the shape of his facial features aside, if that was the shade of Tut's skin it would be enough to get him strung up in 1960's Georgia & refused service & dignity in many places still today.

 

[Apion]

Yeah -- but we're not talking about Georgia in the '60s. Neither are we assuming the ancient Egyptians were white.

Healthy pride is fine but to impose a racial characteristic on an ancient people without proper debate and investigation is irresponsible and outright disrespectful to their still living descendents.