Birth of Jesus in summer, according to Qur'an

[peacecrusader888]

20111120.0815

This is what is in the Qur’an by Marmaduke Pickthall, 19:22-26, on the birth of Jesus:
22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place.
23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: On, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!
24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,
25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.
26 So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.

So Mary gave birth to Jesus during summer when the dates are ripe. Could anyone prove that Jesus was born in summer? Which date? The Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25, but this date does not agree with the account in the Holy Bible.

 

[Desert Snake]

My understanding is that the current date of celebration may have been chosen because it coincided with a pagan winter festival. Don't quote me on that, though.

 

[outhouse]

dec 25 has to do with the winter solstice and nothing to do with the birth of jesus.

Jesus birthday is unknown.


all religions have guessed it.

 

[Plato]

The Bible gives only 1 clue to the time of year Jesus was born. Luke Chp. 2 says it was at that time of year when shepherds slept out in the fields to keep night watch by turns over their flocks. Scholars have determined shepherds do this in the Mideast (I forget exactley why) in the Spring (something to do with new grass and wolves hungry from winter?). At any rate they wouldn't be sleeping in the fields in winter.
Dec. 25th was picked I believe only for convenience and because that's when the Magi visited the already infant Jesus.
So the Quran has it close if it says 'summer' which starts May/June but most Christian believers as understand it think late April around the time of the Christian Easter and Jewish Passover.

 

[outhouse]

The Bible gives only 1 clue to the time of year Jesus was born. Luke Chp. 2 says it was at that time of year when shepherds slept out in the fields to keep night watch by turns over their flocks. Scholars have determined shepherds do this in the Mideast (I forget exactley why) in the Spring (something to do with new grass and wolves hungry from winter?). At any rate they wouldn't be sleeping in the fields in winter.
Dec. 25th was picked I believe only for convenience and because that's when the Magi visited the already infant Jesus.
So the Quran has it close if it says 'summer' which starts May/June but most Christian believers as understand it think late April around the time of the Christian Easter and Jewish Passover.

the bible is pretty much incorrect my friend from a scholarly and histoprical perspective, and a guess on your part about the magi which is also a contradiction in biblical accounts at that.



the author of luke would not have had the faintest idea of when yeshua was born and thats why he was so vague about it.

 

[peacecrusader888]

20111122.1715

Summer months are June, July, and August. When does the date fruit ripen?

 

[whygodwhy]

Pretty sure that Christians just usurped the Pagan holidays.

 

[Desert Snake]

Early in the history of Christianity the new religion had to conform itself to pre-existing pagan holidays such as Saturnalia. The reasons for this could be factors such as reluctance on the part of the non-Christians to adapt the new religion. (Christianity).

 

[Renji]

The Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25, but this date does not agree with the account in the Holy Bible.

See this: History of Christmas

 

[peacecrusader888]

20111122.2120

@Lawrence, whygodwhy, SKKF

Thank you for the link, Lawrence. Very informative. December 25 is not the date when Jesus was born because the date does not agree with the events cited in the Holy Bible. However, when Christianity was made as Rome’s state religion, the observance of the pagan’s holidays of Mitra and Saturnalia in about late December logically had to be usurped into Christianity to “attract the pagans and allow converts to observe their old traditions in a godly fashion”. The Christian holiday that replaced these is Christmas, the supposed birth of Jesus.

We have to celebrate Christmas because that is the first day that God gave to us to be assured of peace. December 25 may be a wrong date but God is still pleased because the spirit of the celebration is for the true Savior or the Covenant of God. So we have to be glad also.

If the Muslims believe in the Qur’an to have come from the true God, they have to prove that Jesus was really born in summer when the date fruit is ripe.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If the Muslims believe in the Qur’an to have come from the true God, they have to prove that Jesus was really born in summer when the date fruit is ripe.

It seems to me that you've done a lovely job shifting the burden of proof. :yes:

 

[peacecrusader888]

It seems to me that you've done a lovely job shifting the burden of proof. :yes:

20111124.0550

@Jayhawker Soule

The Western Christian churches of Roman Catholics and Protestants do not agree with the Eastern Orthodox churches of the birth of Jesus. Maybe, the Muslims can settle the issue. It is in the Qur’an. If the Qur’an comes from the true God, who the Muslims believe is Allah, then, prove that Jesus was really born in summer.

 

[Desert Snake]

Was there some evidence presented? Scripturally or otherwise?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

If the Muslims believe in the Qur’an to have come from the true God, they have to prove that Jesus was really born in summer when the date fruit is ripe.

If most Christians believe that Christ was born in the Spring/Summer rather than December and that the Christmas holidays are nothing more than the Norse Yule traditions with a Christian overlay, then why do the Muslims have to prove anything? What are you trying to say here?

 

[peacecrusader888]

Was there some evidence presented? Scripturally or otherwise?

The Holy Bible has accounts when Jesus was born. They are in Luke 2:1-16. That Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Mary wrapped the baby in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger (feeding trough of farm animals), that shepherds were spending the night in the fields, taking care of the flocks, an angel announced to the shepherds about the birth of Christ the Lord, the shepherds hurried off to Bethlehem and found the newborn infant as what the angel told them.

The Qur’an, on the other hand, says that Mary was at “the pangs of childbirth”, someone from below told her to “shake the trunk of the palm-tree” that “wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee” for her nourishment.

I do not know if there are other accounts in the Qur’an about Jesus’ birth. The Muslims may clarify this to us. But we can say, based on the Qur’an, the time when Mary gave birth to Jesus was when the date fruit is ripe, which is summertime, sometime July and August.

Would the Muslims please clarify this to us?

 

[Quagmire]

The Holy Bible has accounts when Jesus was born. They are in Luke 2:1-16. That Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Mary wrapped the baby in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger (feeding trough of farm animals), that shepherds were spending the night in the fields, taking care of the flocks, an angel announced to the shepherds about the birth of Christ the Lord, the shepherds hurried off to Bethlehem and found the newborn infant as what the angel told them.

The Qur’an, on the other hand, says that Mary was at “the pangs of childbirth”, someone from below told her to “shake the trunk of the palm-tree” that “wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee” for her nourishment.

I do not know if there are other accounts in the Qur’an about Jesus’ birth. The Muslims may clarify this to us. But we can say, based on the Qur’an, the time when Mary gave birth to Jesus was when the date fruit is ripe, which is summertime, sometime July and August.

Would the Muslims please clarify this to us?

One problem I see with this is the assumption that the dates were ripe through natural means. What I mean is, taken in context, immediately following two miraculous events: a voice coming from the ground; a rivulet appearing out of nowhere; the idea that ripe dates could suddenly appear out of season seems to fit right in.

For that matter, if it actually were the right season for dates to be ripe, why would she need to be told that she could get some by shaking a date tree?

 

[peacecrusader888]

If most Christians believe that Christ was born in the Spring/Summer rather than December and that the Christmas holidays are nothing more than the Norse Yule traditions with a Christian overlay, then why do the Muslims have to prove anything? What are you trying to say here?

20111123.1145

@Trey of Diamonds

The Muslims have to prove that Jesus was born in summer because that is in their Qur’an. They firmly believe that the Qur’an is the final revelation of the true God who they call as Allah. If the Muslims are right, then this will settle the division between the Western and Eastern churches. We may also believe that the Qur’an came from the true God.

 

[outhouse]

20111122.1715

Summer months are June, July, and August. When does the date fruit ripen?

depends on what country now, doesnt it?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

20111123.1145

@Trey of Diamonds

The Muslims have to prove that Jesus was born in summer because that is in their Qur’an. They firmly believe that the Qur’an is the final revelation of the true God who they call as Allah. If the Muslims are right, then this will settle the division between the Western and Eastern churches. We may also believe that the Qur’an came from the true God.

Your conclusion make no sense at all. The fact that Jesus was born in the summer is just as much a part of the bible as it is the Qur'an so there is nothing to be proven by either side. It appears as though all you're trying to do is start an arguement between Christians and Muslims. You'll have to find a different topic if that's your goal.

 

[Desert Snake]

In the christian bible it's a manger....so, there seems to be a disagreement right there.