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Biden offered Putin 20% of Ukraine to end the war?

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
If it's true, I applaud the American intelligence.
Finally a step to make this war terminate. I hope Putin accepts and withdraws immediately.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
You think Biden is brokering Ukraine's fate?
Absolutely. I would like to know what Victoria Nuland was doing in 2014, in Ukraine. And why during the Obama administration, too many Americans were present on Ukrainian soil.
And whether they worked on igniting the conflict in Donbas between Russian population and Kiev's government.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Absolutely. I would like to know what Victoria Nuland was doing in 2014, in Ukraine. And why during the Obama administration, too many Americans were present on Ukrainian soil.
And whether they worked on igniting the conflict in Donbas between Russian population and Kiev's government.

No, you would not "like to know why" because you have made it clear that your questions are loaded and rhetorical. Reasoning and facts only work with people who value them, not people who recklessly support conspiracy theories that enable war crimes and annexation of other countries' territory.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
American money is keeping Ukraine alive. The beggar Zelenskyy can sit in the kiddie corner and let the grownups do the talking.

I thought you were against Biden. Or do you turn around and call him a "grownup" only when contrarianism requires such?

That's not a question, by the way; the answer is already clear.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I wouldn't be surprised if any US president did so. Its not our country, after all. Besides its horrible what's happening in Russia, their few young men getting shoved into hopeless battles and slaughtered. I hate it.

American money is keeping Ukraine alive. The beggar Zelenskyy can sit in the kiddie corner and let the grownups do the talking.
I wouldn't go that far. We're showing support and helping them lose fewer people, but they would have beaten Russia anyway. Russia failed because of its poor equipment, and that was due to horrible graft in the military. Even now Russian troops are suffering from terrible equipment. Russian fighter pilots haven't had enough training to be decent fighters. The whole thing is a huge embarrassment, and the sooner it is over the better for all.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
No, you would not "like to know why" because you have made it clear that your questions are loaded and rhetorical. Reasoning and facts only work with people who value them, not people who recklessly support conspiracy theories that enable war crimes and annexation of other countries' territory.

I think that only an International Criminal Court can attest who did what and when. Because documents and the evidence are countless.
I will be waiting for Mrs. Nuland and similar people in The Hague to testify. Let there be a criminal trial and let's hear them.
But nobody can say it's an unproved theory, unless you ascertain it judicially, first., :)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If it's true, I applaud the American intelligence.
Finally a step to make this war terminate. I hope Putin accepts and withdraws immediately.
I doubt you'd feel the same had you lived when the Ottomans came for Rome.
No, you'd be demanding people fight to the last man.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I think that only an International Criminal Court can attest who did what and when. Because documents and the evidence are countless.
I will be waiting for Mrs. Nuland and similar people in The Hague to testify. Let there be a criminal trial and let's hear them.
But nobody can say it's an unproved theory, unless you ascertain it judicially, first., :)

UN Commission has found an array of war crimes, violations of human rights and international humanitarian law have been committed in Ukraine

War crimes have been committed in Ukraine conflict, top UN human rights inquiry reveals

The evidence is already there. George W. Bush never stood trial in an international court for his war crimes and baseless invasion of Iraq. Dismissing all other evidence because such a person hasn't been internationally tried is selective at best.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yes. A question, if the US is not in on it,
then
why is the US forcing us Europeans to send weapons to Kiev?

Thank you for answering.
How are Europeans "forced" by the U.S.? I suspect they do so under their own volition as supporters of freedom and democracy. Why would Europe need the U.S.'s permission to oppose war crimes and genocide?
Invading sovereign nations unprovoked = bad. Torturing, raping, and murdering children = bad. No amount of pizza will ever change that.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
UN Commission has found an array of war crimes, violations of human rights and international humanitarian law have been committed in Ukraine

War crimes have been committed in Ukraine conflict, top UN human rights inquiry reveals

The evidence is already there. George W. Bush never stood trial in an international court for his war crimes and baseless invasion of Iraq. Dismissing all other evidence because such a person hasn't been internationally tried is selective at best.

The ICC will ascertain anyone's crimes. Russia's too.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
How are Europeans "forced" by the U.S.? I suspect they do so under their own volition as supporters of freedom and democracy. Why would Europe need the U.S.'s permission to oppose war crimes and genocide?
Invading sovereign nations unprovoked = bad. Torturing, raping, and murdering children = bad. No amount of pizza will ever change that.

It's unconstitutional. It violates both the German and the Italian Constitutions.
Also because no NATO country has been attacked, Ukraine is not in the NATO.
So the pacta sunt servanda doesn't apply.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
The ICC will ascertain anyone's crimes. Russia's too.

That's not how it works; not everyone can be tried for war crimes, partially because of bureaucracy and legal technicalities:

Why Bush won’t be prosecuted

The world can't afford to sit by and watch Putin's crimes for years—or possibly indefinitely—until the Hague finally ascertains what numerous other organizations have already reported.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
That's not how it works; not everyone can be tried for war crimes, partially because of bureaucracy and legal technicalities:

Why Bush won’t be prosecuted

The world can't afford to sit by and watch Putin's crimes for years—or possibly indefinitely—until the Hague finally ascertains what numerous other organizations have already reported.

Victoria Nuland and similar is not a head of state.
 
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