Biblical proof the Book of Mormon is True

[SoyLeche]

This passage says they will prove them to see if they will do all things God commands. But weren't the 10 commandments written to show us we fall short of God's holiness and to point us to a Saviour? Was the primary reason for God creating Adam and us through his(up to our parents) procreation to have fellowship with us?

Actually, the last verses wherein two asked to be sent and the second was angry etc. seems to indicate to me that at one time Jesus and Lucifer were equal or similar, wherein the Bible says In the beginning the Word (Jesus) was with God and WAS God, and he is the ONLY begotton Son of God. It plainly states Lucifer was a CREATED being, not begotton, that He was NOT ever God, but a created ANGEL. Jesus is God, Satan is an Angel. God has been from everlasting, Jesus-God has been from everlasting.

Show me in the Bible where these things took place. (Lucifer being angry at not being chosen) The Bible says Satan was cast out of Heaven for the sin of exalting himself above God, not because he was angry for not being chosen to save mankind. He actually wants to destroy us. These verses do not line up with what I read in the Bible. I don't know how I can ever accept them.

Not that it will make a difference, but you should check out the slightly more detailed version here too: Moses 4

 

[joeboonda]

So Christ preached to the gentiles, huh? That's news to me.

I did not say Christ preached to the gentiles, but that the Gospel would be preached starting at Jerusalem and they were to preach this Gospel to the whole world. I believe the other sheep are the gentiles as plays out in the Bible.

So what do you believe the role of angels to be, Mike?

They are minstring spirits. They have many roles, and they did give messages to people in the Bible it is true, I am simply asking where scripture was ever written in any way except as men were directly inpired by the Holy Spirit of God.

And yet, in Revelation 14:6, we read: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people...
Why would another angel deliver the everlasting gospel to the earth in the last days if it was already here?

It says the angel had the gospel, (proclaiming, "Fear God..." etc.) But this all takes place in Heaven as the context shows. Nowhere in the Bible is God's Word, not even the Ten Commandments given to man by anyone but God himself, making the Bible God's Word. We simply differ here and I do not want to be contentious, I just said scripture that does not come as all the rest of scripture came to us, directly from God via the Holy Spirit of God, is highly questionable to me. I believe the Koran was given with the help of angels, too, and it teaches things that directly contradict the Bible (like that Jesus didn't die on the cross). So, I heed Paul's warning that though an angel (perhaps Satan or his followers masquerading as an angel of light) brings some sort of 'new revelation' etc. I must test/prove it in light of the Bible. To me I see differences. I know you don't and that is fine. This is just my understanding.

Peace and Grace,

Mike

 

[joeboonda]

You're comparing apples to oranges, Mike. The authors of the Book of Mormon were divinely inspired, just as the authors of the book in the Bible were. They were moved by the power of the Holy Ghost to write scripture, too. The fact that an angel showed Joseph Smith where to find their writings is no reason to reject these writings as false.

All the scripture in the Bible was given to men by the Holy Spirit of God.

So you don't believe God is the Father of our spirits and that we are His offspring? Why not? That's what the Bible teaches.

No I don't. Where except the verse saying we will return to God does it directly, plainly teach this? The BIble says in Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This says to me that Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him. I do believe God created Adam then Eve, and they up to our parents, etc. procreated us. God did not create us nor are we his offspring but our parent's offspring.

This is getting to be pretty ridiculous. That's not LDS doctrine.

It is what Madhatter stated, I was answering her.

We're God's children, created in His image. Maybe we're more like Him than you realize.

I agree we were created in his image.

Your problem, Mike, is that you are absolutely convinced that the Bible contains literally every bit of truth there is. Since you keep saying, "Show me, show me, show me...", why don't you show me where the Bible even claims to be 100% complete.

I would rather not get deeply into that now but will give an excerpt that explains a small part of why I belive the Bible is complete from creationists.org (you may read the rest yourself but I cannot post the link because much of the article-not what I am pasting-does attempt to refute Mormonism and I do not wish to disrespect you)

Galatians 1:6-12​

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

John Calvin’s commentary on Galations 6-9:
http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol41/htm/iii.iii.ii.htm

In these verses we see:
a) that the Gospels of the Bible are revelations by Jesus Himself and
b) that God warns us about a different gospel message from an angel from heaven.

There are no verses anywhere in the Bible that state there will be additional written revelations after the book of Revelation. Since Revelation deals with events clear up to the very last days, no additional revelations are needed. On the flip side, as we saw above, there are explicit warnings not to add or subtract anything to the last book of the Bible, Revelation. Additionally, several old and new testament books in the Bible do predict additional false revelations from Satan, demons and human false prophets including in the last days.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, we don't believe any of those things either. We believe that Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were part of the Godhead from the beginning. They weren't ever "spirit babies of God." And Lucifer was never equal to Christ.

Good. The passage in Abraham speaks of 2 personages and the 2nd was angry and left his first estate. If this refers to the angel Lucifer, the Bible says he was cast out for exalting himself above God, not because he was angry for not being chosen to save man.

Really? Where does the Bible say we were children of darkness? I'm not familiar with that passage. You may consider yourself a child of darkness, Mike, but don't try to pin that label on me. I'm a child of God.

The Bible says we were born children of darkness, wrath, and disobedience, dead in our sins, but are now children of light since we believed in Jesus:

Ephesians 5:6-8
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light.
Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.
Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Colossians 3
6For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

There are many more verses (do word search "children of" which compare children of God and Children of Satan, darkness, etc. It says we WERE children of darkness but are NOW children of light. We were children of spiritually dead, sinful, fallen parents from whom Adam's sin-nature was passed down to us. It is only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ that we then become children of God/Light. Before that we were not.

Hey, Kat, I don't want to argue or disrespect, so let me know if I offend at any time. Also, the quote things, takes me forever, so, I would rather just do a question or two at a time. Its too much for me a lot of times, way too time consuming and exhausting to try to answer every qoute. So its nothing personal if I don't keep up with all of it, ok? Thanks! God bless!

Mike

 

[joeboonda]

Not that it will make a difference, but you should check out the slightly more detailed version here too: Moses 4

Thanks, I read that. The first several verses teach that Satan fell because he was not chosen to redeem mankind and so he rebelled and became the deciever and destroyer of mankind, whereas the Bible teaches he fell because he exalted himself above God:

SELECTIONS FROM THE
BOOK OF MOSES
CHAPTER 4
(June—October 1830)
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall and death enters the world.
1 And I, the aLord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That bSatan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will dredeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore fgive me thine honor. 2 But, behold, my Beloved aSon, which was my Beloved and bChosen from the beginning, said unto me—cFather, thy dwill be done, and the eglory be thine forever. 3 Wherefore, because that aSatan brebelled against me, and sought to destroy the cagency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be dcast down; 4 And he became aSatan, yea, even the bdevil, the father of all clies, to ddeceive and to blind men, and to lead them ecaptive at his will, even as many as would not fhearken unto my voice. 5 And now the serpent was more asubtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made. 6 And aSatan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away bmany after him,) and he sought also to cbeguile Eve, for he dknew not the emind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.

Verses 7-31 of Moses are almost identical to Genesis 3. (I tried to paste them both here for comparison but no room) The first 6 verses are the difference. Here is what the Bible says of Lucifer:

Isaiah 14 KJV

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[SoyLeche]

Thanks, I read that. The first several verses teach that Satan fell because he was not chosen to redeem mankind and so he rebelled and became the deciever and destroyer of mankind, whereas the Bible teaches he fell because he exalted himself above God:

SELECTIONS FROM THE
BOOK OF MOSES
CHAPTER 4
(June—October 1830)
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall and death enters the world.
1 And I, the aLord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That bSatan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will dredeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore fgive me thine honor. 2 But, behold, my Beloved aSon, which was my Beloved and bChosen from the beginning, said unto me—cFather, thy dwill be done, and the eglory be thine forever. 3 Wherefore, because that aSatan brebelled against me, and sought to destroy the cagency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be dcast down; 4 And he became aSatan, yea, even the bdevil, the father of all clies, to ddeceive and to blind men, and to lead them ecaptive at his will, even as many as would not fhearken unto my voice. 5 And now the serpent was more asubtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made. 6 And aSatan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away bmany after him,) and he sought also to cbeguile Eve, for he dknew not the emind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.

Verses 7-31 of Moses are almost identical to Genesis 3. (I tried to paste them both here for comparison but no room) The first 6 verses are the difference. Here is what the Bible says of Lucifer:

Isaiah 14 KJV

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Take another look at the end of verse 1. And near the beginning of verse 2. Lucifer thought he had a better plan than God did, and got upset when he was told no.

 

[silvermoon383]

I don't get it- how can people continue to claim that there was not supposed to be any more scripture after Revelations when it is well known that the other books of John's came years later?

 

[nutshell]

I don't get it- how can people continue to claim that there was not supposed to be any more scripture after Revelations when it is well known that the other books of John's came years later?

Because God knew the modern-day Bible would have Revelations at the end.

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't get it- how can people continue to claim that there was not supposed to be any more scripture after Revelations when it is well known that the other books of John's came years later?

The simple answer is that most people don't know that and assume (for some reason) that the bible is chronological.

 

[madhatter85]

I wonder if Joeboonda is an "Evangelical" because he sure talks in circles alot and doesnt read round what he's quoting to get even a sligh understanding as to the context of the passages.

 

[SoyLeche]

I wonder if Joeboonda is an "Evangelical" because he sure talks in circles alot and doesnt read round what he's quoting to get even a sligh understanding as to the context of the passages.

Yeah, none of us are guilty of that

 

[joeboonda]

Take another look at the end of verse 1. And near the beginning of verse 2. Lucifer thought he had a better plan than God did, and got upset when he was told no.

I get that. The Bible only says he exalted himself above God wanting to be God basically. It does not mention anything about him being upset over not getting chosen to be our Redeemer.

 

[joeboonda]

I don't get it- how can people continue to claim that there was not supposed to be any more scripture after Revelations when it is well known that the other books of John's came years later?

Revelation was written around 90 A.D near the end of John's life and is the last of the Biblical Canon.

 

[joeboonda]

I wonder if Joeboonda is an "Evangelical" because he sure talks in circles alot and doesnt read round what he's quoting to get even a sligh understanding as to the context of the passages.

Point a finger, three right back atcha:

Originally Posted by madhatter85
the Verse in Corinthians he's explaining WHY they did perform Baptism's by proxy because they know that the dead is not yet "judged" and that they can still perfom work here to save those who never had heard the words of christ before dying.

Really? It actually just mentions those people in passing.

Read Verses 5-7 instead of just 6
He praying to God about how people try to hide from god because they never gave thanks to him, that they put faith in themselves first.

Well here are the other 2 verses:

5Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.


They say God meets (does not hide his face from) those who do righteousness but God hides his face from those who sin, not that we hide our face from God (although that is a true statement it is not in this verse). All these verses say we have sinned which was simply my point.

 

[Bishka]

Revelation was written around 90 A.D near the end of John's life and is the last of the Biblical Canon.

So says you.

 

[Bishka]

That's not true, thanks.

Then why quote paragraphs of scripture? Over and over? When I read things like I just skip it because it doesn't mean anything to me to have someone quote scripture like that to me.

 

[SoyLeche]

I get that. The Bible only says he exalted himself above God wanting to be God basically. It does not mention anything about him being upset over not getting chosen to be our Redeemer.

Well, if it had already been spelled out there wouldn't be much need for further revelation, would there. We've just got the same story with more details.

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't get it- how can people continue to claim that there was not supposed to be any more scripture after Revelations when it is well known that the other books of John's came years later?

The simple answer is that most people don't know that and assume (for some reason) that the bible is chronological.

Revelation was written around 90 A.D near the end of John's life and is the last of the Biblical Canon.

See

 

[joeboonda]

John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos in his latter years after persecution by Rome. The 95 A.D date is the most widely accepted:

The internal evidence of the book regarding the Roman Empire and the external testimony of the Church Fathers both point to a date of authorship around 95 A.D., 25 years after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
The type of widespread Roman persecution of the Church that is pictured in Revelation did not occur until the reign of Domitian (81 - 96 A.D.). The persecutions of Nero were limited to the area of Rome. One of the Church Fathers, Iranaeus (c. 130 - c. 202), wrote that the book of Revelation was authored by the apostle John "toward the end of Domitian's reign."1 Irenaeus was discipled by Polycarp (c. 70 - c. 155 A.D.) who, in turn, had been discipled directly by John himself. From Lamblion.

 

[madhatter85]

Point a finger, three right back atcha:

I don't talk in circles, i show where i get my beliefs, you just talk around it and avoid it like you're scared of it.

 

[joeboonda]

Then why quote paragraphs of scripture? Over and over? When I read things like I just skip it because it doesn't mean anything to me to have someone quote scripture like that to me.

If I share a belief, I always try to back it up with enough scripture to support it, sometimes its over-kill I admit.