Biblical Credulity

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

Good evening,

For all who can direct me, I am seeking an inclusive view on the credibility of the Christian Bible. Is it truly the inspired Word of God? I am by no means opposed to those who would disagree but again I ask you to cite your resources. I am opposed both to :to simply believing according to faith ; and those who should foolishly write off such claims as simple. I do consider myself a Christian but within it such an excercise will only solidify my call and without I must abandon such vanities, for surely my time would be better suited in drunkenness and sex : for tomorrow we die.

Andrew

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Probably do not need three versions of the same thread, also credulity and credibility are not exactly synonymous.

Personally I find the credibility of the document dubious based on the simple recognition of human fallibility, we cannot be certain that we can authenticate the authorship (whether divine or even merely secular) of various parts of the bible, let alone the content therein. In addition from my understanding examination of particular historical and factual claims in the bible have not been borne out by objective investigation therefore I am dubious not only of the authenticity but of the accuracy.

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

Was going for a shotgun approach but you're probably right. I feel like a fool for my ignorance, but I suppose I won't make that mistake again!

I see your point but would it be faith if there were not room for doubt? Unfortunately the weight of dogma, particularly that of eternal hell forced me to search out these issue with great diligence; for my neighbor as well as myself.

 

[greentwiga]

There are various ways to check the credibility of the Bible. Looking at the past is one way. I have even dug deeply into Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, etc and am satisfied. Each section takes a detailed response. For example, I alway thought that Noah's ark was built of wood. A careful exam shows that it was a giant reed boat. The word frequently translated compartments is a form of the word, reeds. The word wood, in Hebrew, is also used for stalks, and thus could mean reeds, and the ark of moses, the only other floating ark, was made of reeds. This is preserved in the Bible despite that the world forgot about reed boats for thousands of years. Recently, scientists have shown that the only ocean going boats of 3,000 BC were made of reeds.
The other way of considering the credibility of the Bible is forward looking. The Bible states what will happen if you trust in Jesus. I became a Christian with no Christians around me to tell me what should happen. I began to notice changes. Months later, I read the book of I John. It states that the book was written so we may know we are saved. I thought back on those first weeks and saw that the ~25 things stated had appeared in my life despite that I didn't know that they should appear. The accuracy of the past is nice, but it doesn't mean much unless you also become more Godly.

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

I'd like to examine your texts, if you have them readily. With regard to proof according to fruit - I will agree that from the on-set of my faith I found a great number of changes, amd in fact this may be God's grace calling me back to himself. However, I must postpone judgement, if only according to the seriousness of such a call.

 

[Skwim]

As with any claim, the burden of proof lies with those making the assertion, so I, for one, am not about to look for resources that disprove it's the word of god. Therefore, if you want "proof" one way or the other then you're going to have to wait for those who claim it is god's word. And if it meets your level of acceptable evidence then you have something you might want to hang your hat on. Failing that you may want to look elsewhere.

Personally, it all hangs on a faith in evidence that flies in the face of reason, which I find impossible to embrace. There are just too many warning signs and potholes in the Bible to ignore.

 

[Skwim]

A re-posting of the reply I made in the philosophy forum.

As with any claim, the burden of proof lies with those making the assertion, so I, for one, am not about to look for resources that disprove it's the word of god. Therefore, if you want "proof" one way or the other then you're going to have to wait for those who claim it is god's word. And if it meets your level of acceptable evidence then you have something you might want to hang your hat on. Failing that you may want to look elsewhere.

Personally, it all hangs on a faith in evidence that flies in the face of reason, which I find impossible to embrace. There are just too many warning signs and potholes in the Bible to ignore.

 

[arthra]

Good evening,

For all who can direct me, I am seeking an inclusive view on the credibility of the Christian Bible. Is it truly the inspired Word of God? I am by no means opposed to those who would disagree but again I ask you to cite your resources. I am opposed both to :to simply believing according to faith ; and those who should foolishly write off such claims as simple. I do consider myself a Christian but within it such an excercise will only solidify my call and without I must abandon such vanities, for surely my time would be better suited in drunkenness and sex : for tomorrow we die.

Andrew

Well it's interesting.. When you describe the Bible as the "Christian Bible" that automatically tends to diminish the Torah and the Psalms as scripture... Simply put the Bible is a record over a thousand years of revelation(s) appearing at various times and circumstances... verbally passed down and recorded late rby numberless scribes and sometimes with interpolations and revisions..

Even the canon of scripture varies..between say the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.The Greek Orthodox Church, The Roman Catholic Church and the Bible accepted by Protestants...

So with all that the Bible is still regarded as inspired by most..even the Qur'an suggests this...

3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3)

Is the Bible a science text...? No I think not...

Is it a history text? Not exactly...but you will find references to historical persons and events...

If the Bible is read in a literal word for word sense it makes less sense in my view.. So understanding allegories and symbolic words used helps us.

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

As with any claim, the burden of proof lies with those making the assertion, so I, for one, am not about to look for resources that disprove it's the word of god. Therefore, if you want "proof" one way or the other then you're going to have to wait for those who claim it is god's word. And if it meets your level of acceptable evidence then you have something you might want to hang your hat on. Failing that you may want to look elsewhere.

Personally, it all hangs on a faith in evidence that flies in the face of reason, which I find impossible to embrace. There are just too many warning signs and potholes in the Bible to ignore.

I would like to hear from some Christian apologist, particularly with regard to the historical dogma of hell: it's because of it that I find letting go of the Bible so difficulty; indeed what a serious game we play! In fact, truthfulness of the Bible notwithstanding, in either camp I find little comfort one writes all of our works as nothing more than vanity, and the other burdens both my body and soul: because it calls that I live contrary to the natural desires of my flesh whilst simultaneously condemning to hell everyone who doesn't. My apologies, this subject can be quite winding at points .

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

Well it's interesting.. When you describe the Bible as the "Christian Bible" that automatically tends to diminish the Torah and the Psalms as scripture... Simply put the Bible is a record over a thousand years of revelation(s) appearing at various times and circumstances... verbally passed down and recorded late rby numberless scribes and sometimes with interpolations and revisions..

Even the canon of scripture varies..between say the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.The Greek Orthodox Church, The Roman Catholic Church and the Bible accepted by Protestants...

So with all that the Bible is still regarded as inspired by most..even the Qur'an suggests this...

3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3)

Is the Bible a science text...? No I think not...

Is it a history text? Not exactly...but you will find references to historical persons and events...

If the Bible is read in a literal word for word sense it makes less sense in my view.. So understanding allegories and symbolic words used helps us.

Friend, I ask you know that the passage of time and human error is not to be found in the Koran. Rather than the faith you place in it, wouldn't it be subject to the same inaccuracies?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

For all who can direct me, I am seeking an inclusive view on the credibility of the Christian Bible.

What the heck is an inclusive view on .. credibility? Inclusive of what?

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

What the heck is an inclusive view on .. credibility? Inclusive of what?

What makes the Bible anymore credible than other religious books. I suppose when I askvfor an inclusive response I am looking for something more than faith.

 

[Quintessence]

What makes the Bible anymore credible than other religious books. I suppose when I askvfor an inclusive response I am looking for something more than faith.

Nothing makes it "more credible" other than some human saying so. Credibility of mythology is a subjective assessment, and, IMHO, completely missing the point of mythology in the first place. Whether or not someone regards mythology as "credible" is irrelevant; the point is to be guided and inspired by the stories.

Then again, I've never understood the perspective that something should be "inspired by the gods" or some such in order to be worth learning from. Not just because I find everything is of the gods, but because there is something worth learning from absolutely everything regardless of it being "credible" or "valuable" based on some human's authority claims.

You're an adult; you make your own decisions. Learn from what you want, be inspired by what you want, like what you want. You don't need anyone to make these decisions for you. So long as it enriches your life, go for it.

 

[Falvlun]

There are some things that are inaccurate in the Bible, such as a literal interpretation of Creation, Noah's Flood, the sun stopping in the sky, and the inconsistencies between the Gospels. There are also possible historical inaccuracies, like the Israelite exodus from Egypt, or Herod the Great being the one to order the execution of Jewish boy babies (the timing is off).

But to categorically say the Bible cannot be the word of God and is entirely untrue is impossible. Why? Because the claims cannot be examined. To date, we have no objective evidence of the existence of God, let alone the ability to interview him and ask whether everything said about him in the Bible is true.

But, then again, we don't have definitive proof that unicorns don't exist (have we looked everywhere?), that an invisible, undetectable realm doesn't exist underneath New York, or that we haven't been poofed into existence last Thursday.

The mere fact that something can't be disproven isn't a good enough reason to believe that it is true... or that it is just as reasonable to believe that it is true as it is to believe that it is not true.

 

[CMike]

There are some things that are inaccurate in the Bible, such as a literal interpretation of Creation, Noah's Flood, ue.

There is nothing in accurate in it.

You don't understand it.

 

[9Westy9]

Good evening,

For all who can direct me, I am seeking an inclusive view on the credibility of the Christian Bible. Is it truly the inspired Word of God? I am by no means opposed to those who would disagree but again I ask you to cite your resources. I am opposed both to :to simply believing according to faith ; and those who should foolishly write off such claims as simple. I do consider myself a Christian but within it such an excercise will only solidify my call and without I must abandon such vanities, for surely my time would be better suited in drunkenness and sex : for tomorrow we die.

Andrew

Like with all books the answer is no until someone can prove otherwise.

 

[arthra]

Put simply...In order to be inspired by it...you need to read it..

Over time I've found that there are levels of meaning that unfold as you read it.

So reading the Bible at one stage of life and then reading it at another you will find meaning unfolding..

I read the Bible, the Qur'an and the Baha'i Writings..actually when yuo read the Baha'i Writings you will find citations of the Bible.. Here's an example...

In the Old Testament we read that God said, 'Let us make man in Our own image'. In the Gospel, Christ said, 'I am in the Father, and the Father in Me'.[1] In the Qur'án, God says, 'Man is my Mystery and I am his'. Bahá'u'lláh writes that God says, 'Thy heart is My home; purify it for My descent. Thy spirit is My place of revelation; cleanse it for My manifestation'.

[1 St. John xiv, II ]

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 23

I also enjoy studying scripture and learning about more about the languages..

Some good study aids:

Welcome to BLB v3

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

Put simply...In order to be inspired by it...you need to read it..

Over time I've found that there are levels of meaning that unfold as you read it.

So reading the Bible at one stage of life and then reading it at another you will find meaning unfolding..

I read the Bible, the Qur'an and the Baha'i Writings..actually when yuo read the Baha'i Writings you will find citations of the Bible.. Here's an example...

In the Old Testament we read that God said, 'Let us make man in Our own image'. In the Gospel, Christ said, 'I am in the Father, and the Father in Me'.[1] In the Qur'án, God says, 'Man is my Mystery and I am his'. Bahá'u'lláh writes that God says, 'Thy heart is My home; purify it for My descent. Thy spirit is My place of revelation; cleanse it for My manifestation'.

[1 St. John xiv, II ]

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 23

I also enjoy studying scripture and learning about more about the languages..

Some good study aids:

Welcome to BLB v3

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

Your suggestions is therefore that they are all in fact inspired; or provide analogous verses which help define the others?

 

[arthra]

Your suggestions is therefore that they are all in fact inspired; or provide analogous verses which help define the others?

Yes that is my suggestion... but to discover this you would have to expose yourself to it....Without some kind of reading program it would be less likely to derive much benefit from it. :yes:

 

[Timidly -Truthful-Seeker]

I have requested further information. But if that is the case, don't the claims of Jesus as "I the way " become debatable?