Biblical code view of prophets

[Truth in love]

The OT is pretty clear that prophets are great. I think that notion is very well accepted by Christians.

I’ve also seen a fairly common view that God stopped using prophets.


Amos 3:7 strongly suggests that they are an on going thing.

Matthew 7:15 is a warning about false prophets. A very odd warning if the last real prophet was long dead and none would again be called. “There will never be another prophet” would seem a more effective statement.

Acts 11: 27-28 and acts 13:1 we have prophets after the death of the Savior. So when did prophets cease to a way God speaks to man?
Why did this change?
Where does the Bible tell us this?

(edit to fix typos)

 

[Link]

OT is not clear, some Prophets are great like Moses, others argue and vie for authority like Aaron, some chosen kings turn on their back like Saul (appointed by Samuel), and Solomon turns evil. Lot is righteous and evil per the OT, which is a contradiction.

 

[Truth in love]

OT is not clear, some Prophets are great like Moses, others argue and vie for authority like Aaron, some chosen kings turn on their back like Saul (appointed by Samuel), and Solomon turns evil. Lot is righteous and evil per the OT, which is a contradiction.

People have weakness. Saul was a good guy as was David and Solomon. They each messed up pretty bad.

Aaron had his struggles to, but they were tools in Gods hands to do his work

 

[Link]

People have weakness. Saul was a good guy as was David and Solomon. They each messed up pretty bad.

Aaron had his struggles to, but they were tools in Gods hands to do his work

You said great. To me the sins each is assigned makes them anything but great.

 

[Truth in love]

You said great. To me the sins each is assigned makes them anything but great.

Aside from Jesus the only ones in the Bible we don’t know mess up are the ones we know almost nothing about.

Saul hunts down Christians, Peter denies Christ, Thomas is legendary for doubting. Moses was in trouble a few times with God, Gideon kept asking for signs and Abraham haggled with God like we would a merchant.

being human does not mean they did not do great things.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ot the is pretty clear that prophets are great. I think that notion is very well accepted by Christians.

I’ve also seen a fairly common view that God stopped using prophets.

Amos 3:7 strongly suggests that they are an on going thing.

I agree that prophets are great and I do not believe that God will ever stop using prophets.
I believe that prophets are an ongoing thing although I do not believe that there will ever be any more prophets like we see in the Old Testament, since the primary purpose of many (but not all) of the OT prophets was to announce the coming of Jesus and other Universal Prophets who would come after Him.

Matthew 7:15 is a warning about false prophets. A very odd warning if the last real prophet was long dead and none would again be called. “There will never be another prophet” would seem a more effective statement.

If there was never going to be another prophet why did Matthew say that we would know them by their fruits?

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Acts 11: 27-28 and acts 13:1 we have prophets after the death of the Savior. So when did prophets cease to a way God speaks to man?
Why did this change?
Where does the Bible tell us this?

I do not think it ever changed.... Matthew indicated there would be more prophets when he said "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

God spoke to man through Jesus and I believe that Jesus was a prophet, as He so claimed.
Jesus was a different kind of prophet than many of the prophets in the Old Testament, but He was a prophet nonetheless.

The Bible shows that Jesus referred to Himself as a prophet, and was so regarded.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

 

[Link]

Aside from Jesus the only ones in the Bible we don’t know mess up are the ones we know almost nothing about.

Saul hunts down Christians, Peter denies Christ, Thomas is legendary for doubting. Moses was in trouble a few times with God, Gideon kept asking for signs and Abraham haggled with God like we would a merchant.

being human does not mean they did not do great things.

Gospels description of Jesus (a) - that's how I see all chosen ones from Adam (a) to the Mahdi (a).

 

[Brickjectivity]

As long as there is criticism of evil behavior there is prophecy. People do not like to hear what prophets say, because it is a criticism. Prophets, in turn, don't enjoy prophecy. It is a bit like being an unpaid dentist. People criticize one another, and it is not always prophecy. It is often just quarreling and arrogance. Prophecy should be from unambitious motives, not greedy, not for selfish purposes. A prophet in the bible is like a whistle blower today.

For example John the baptist (in the gospels) criticized King Herod's behavior and was beheaded as a result, but he criticized Herod for the good of people not simply to pick at Herod. Jonah (in the book Jonah in the bible) did not want to preach in Nineveh, because he hated that city -- probably for very good reasons; but in the story he relented finally. He went to that city which he hated and preached a warning. The city repented, and he was angry that it was to be allowed to live and not be destroyed. He was a terrible but a very successful prophet. At then end he learned how tiny he was and how little he understood Nineveh and how his hate was petty.

Some of the books like kings, chronicles and samuel have examples of some dodgy prophets. They lie. They accept bribes. They flatter. They falsely accuse or pretend everything is fine when it isn't fine. They say good things if you feed them well and bad things if you feed them poorly. They don't care if people are suffering and prefer to have secure positions. These are like news commentators. Their job should be to keep people informed and out of trouble, but they only care about being paid.

 

[Link]

Aside from Jesus the only ones in the Bible we don’t know mess up are the ones we know almost nothing about.

Saul hunts down Christians, Peter denies Christ, Thomas is legendary for doubting. Moses was in trouble a few times with God, Gideon kept asking for signs and Abraham haggled with God like we would a merchant.

being human does not mean they did not do great things.

Aaron vying for authority shows he was never worth being given Prophethood. Saul being overtaken by evil spirit and being jealous over David shows ingratitude towards favors and is anything but great.

Solomon turning to polytheism and paganism and turning to evil ways of dark arts, is anything but "great".

 

[Truth in love]

Aaron vying for authority shows he was never worth being given Prophethood. Saul being overtaken by evil spirit and being jealous over David shows ingratitude towards favors and is anything but great.

Solomon turning to polytheism and paganism and turning to evil ways of dark arts, is anything but "great".

There were failings, but if Aaron was not worthy he would not have been called of God.
Saul went bad.
Paganism tends to upset God etc. yet even those with major falls did serve for a time and do much good. David slew a giant, Solomon built a temple .

 

[Link]

There were failings, but if Aaron was not worthy he would not have been called of God.
Saul went bad.
Paganism tends to upset God etc. yet even those with major falls did serve for a time and do much good. David slew a giant, Solomon built a temple .

Or Bible was corrupted, and God chooses the best and exalted ones, who would do not such things.

 

[Truth in love]

Or Bible was corrupted, and God chooses the best and exalted ones, who would do not such things.

While I think there are many errors in the text I don’t think that the entire storyline was wrecked. If God only made use of perfect persons we would all be in trouble. I find hope in a God making use of the less then perfect and getting the job done. In short He makes great lemonade.

 

[Link]

While I think there are many errors in the text I don’t think that the entire storyline was wrecked. If God only made use of perfect persons we would all be in trouble. I find hope in a God making use of the less then perfect and getting the job done. In short He makes great lemonade.

Exaltedness loses it's meaning and choosing doesn't have meaning in this case. It's random picking with no insight to who they are.

 

[Truth in love]

Exaltedness loses it's meaning and choosing doesn't have meaning in this case. It's random picking with no insight to who they are.

I think God knows us perfectly.

 

[Brian2]

The OT is pretty clear that prophets are great. I think that notion is very well accepted by Christians.

I’ve also seen a fairly common view that God stopped using prophets.


Amos 3:7 strongly suggests that they are an on going thing.

Matthew 7:15 is a warning about false prophets. A very odd warning if the last real prophet was long dead and none would again be called. “There will never be another prophet” would seem a more effective statement.

Acts 11: 27-28 and acts 13:1 we have prophets after the death of the Savior. So when did prophets cease to a way God speaks to man?
Why did this change?
Where does the Bible tell us this?

(edit to fix typos)

The Church still has prophets even though most of them do not prophesy the future. There are other functions of prophets.

 

[Harel13]

I don't know why you think Amos suggested that prophets are an on-going thing.

I'm sure you're aware that Christian prophets aren't considered prophets in Judaism. Rather, the last prophet was Malachi. According to Judaism, prophecy will return around the coming of the Mashiach. There are a number of parallel reasons for why prophecy stopped in the first place. The gist of all of them is that when the Greeks took over, the spiritual level of Jews decreased so much that they could no longer attain prophecy.

 

[Brian2]

I don't know why you think Amos suggested that prophets are an on-going thing.

I'm sure you're aware that Christian prophets aren't considered prophets in Judaism. Rather, the last prophet was Malachi. According to Judaism, prophecy will return around the coming of the Mashiach. There are a number of parallel reasons for why prophecy stopped in the first place. The gist of all of them is that when the Greeks took over, the spiritual level of Jews decreased so much that they could no longer attain prophecy.

Is it a matter of "attaining" prophecy or is it more a matter of God wanting a prophet and choosing someone to be a prophet to give a message? Not all prophets were exemplary in their morals.
Where does it say that prophecy would stop until the time of the Messiah?
Isn't this what happened with Jesus anyway?

 

[Harel13]

Is it a matter of "attaining" prophecy or is it more a matter of God wanting a prophet and choosing someone to be a prophet to give a message?

Both. The choosing reflects the high spiritual level of the chosen person, and a person was only chosen when that person reached a certain spiritual level. With that said, our sages tell us that there some instances in which there were individuals who were worthy of prophecy but because they lived in a generation that was of a lower spiritual level, they did not attain prophecy.

Not all prophets were exemplary in their morals.

I recently concluded that spirituality does not necessarily equal righteousness. Then I realized that this is actually stated in the Talmud. So I have no problem with your statement.

Where does it say that prophecy would stop until the time of the Messiah?

Small note: You merged two of my statements. One statement is that the last prophet was Malachi. The second was that prophecy will return in the time of the Mashiach.
There are several sources that state that prophecy stopped. See my compilation here. Then there's Yoel 2:18-4:2 who states that prophecy will return in the time of the Redemption. And a couple of later Jewish sources brought in the answers here.

Isn't this what happened with Jesus anyway?

I don't understand.

 

[Brian2]

Small note: You merged two of my statements. One statement is that the last prophet was Malachi. The second was that prophecy will return in the time of the Mashiach.
There are several sources that state that prophecy stopped. See my compilation here. Then there's Yoel 2:18-4:2 who states that prophecy will return in the time of the Redemption. And a couple of later Jewish sources brought in the answers here.

Your Joel 3:1-5 is quoted at Acts 2: 17-21 concerning the day of Pentecost, when the Spirit was poured out in the first public proclamation of Jesus resurrection. (On that day it says that 3000 were saved, just as when Moses first descended from Mt Sinai, 3000 perished)

I don't understand.

What I said above is what I meant. Beginning with John the Baptist, whom Jesus said was Elijah who was to come, even though he was not the same person as Elijah. He prophesied in the spirit and power of Elijah and is described in a similar way to the way Elijah was described.
From Pentecost the Spirit was poured out and prophecy was one of the gifts of the Spirit, and the Spirit was poured out on gentiles, so "all people" (as in the Joel prophecy) is a good description.

 

[Harel13]

Your Joel 3:1-5 is quoted at Acts 2: 17-21 concerning the day of Pentecost, when the Spirit was poured out in the first public proclamation of Jesus resurrection. (On that day it says that 3000 were saved, just as when Moses first descended from Mt Sinai, 3000 perished)

And? You know very well that Jews don't believe that stuff. That's why in my first post here I wrote that Jews don't accept Christian prophets.

What I said above is what I meant. Beginning with John the Baptist, whom Jesus said was Elijah who was to come, even though he was not the same person as Elijah. He prophesied in the spirit and power of Elijah and is described in a similar way to the way Elijah was described.
From Pentecost the Spirit was poured out and prophecy was one of the gifts of the Spirit, and the Spirit was poured out on gentiles, so "all people" (as in the Joel prophecy) is a good description.

Same as above. I said in my first post that Jews don't accept Christian prophets - including Jesus, John the Baptist - whom we do not consider to be any form of Elijah - and any of Jesus's followers. So I don't know what you're getting at.