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Bible Versions

adilrockstar

Active Member
KJV said:
Are you aware there are many different "Bible" versions today claiming to be the Word of God. Each one tells us that it is the most reliable, most accurate, etc. etc.. But which of them is God’s Word? Since they all disagree with one another, we can’t possibly say that they all are. Can we? Are we to suppose that God has written more than one Bible and that he makes statements in one and then disagrees with himself in another? No, of course not. God only wrote one Bible. How, then, do we go about determining which "Bible" is the Bible? If we look to human opinion for the answer, we will find nearly as many opinions as we find people. One person will like one. Another person will prefer another. Yet a third person will assure us that it really doesn’t matter, telling us that any of them will do just fine. Since we aren’t interested in human opinion here, we need to look to scripture for help in resolving this issue. There are two questions that we will need to consider. (1) Which are the correct manuscripts?
(2) Which is the proper translation of those (the correct) manuscripts?

They all say the same thing, they just use different wording. It contains the same exact message and history. Same exact teachings.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
From verse 10-18 the verse numbers don't match up so you have to compare each version by looking at the text and ignoring the verse numbers.

Love that 17th century grammar and punctuation.

Joseph Smith inspired version
Matthew 6:9-21

9 Therefore after this manner shall ye pray, saying,
10 Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
11 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is done in heaven.
12 Give us this day, our daily bread.
13 And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
14 And suffer us not to be led into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
15 For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen.
16 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, who trespass against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you your trespasses.
17 Moreover, when ye fast, be not as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily, I say unto you, they have their reward.
18 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thy head and wash thy face, that thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father who is in secret; and thy Father who seeth insecret, shall reward thee openly.
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasure upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

King James
Matthew 6:9-21

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It's still a "big whoop" for me. We don't speak that dialect anymore.

Charity has been replaced by love and there are a ton of archic usage throughout the KJV.

The issue at hand is one of PRIDE. Man wants to be able to hold the truth in his hand. He wants to be able to say that HE understands the scriptures and that only HE is able to discern the secrets therein. Malarky.

That's the Spirit's job to lead us into all the truth. The Spirit will use ANYTHING it can to show us God's will. We just have to be humble enough to accept it.

John 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV
 
Please none take this offfensivly for all the KJV, NIV version Lovers
But... we are gonna speak historically

The catholic Church historically is the first cristian church we didnt add books to the bible the KJV removes the Apycrpha, the greek text in the New English version, or catholic bible the same text used by the apostles, Historically...Greek-speaking Jews preferred the larger canon found in the Greek Septuagint Bible - a 2nd-century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture. It was the "Bible" for the Greek-speaking Jews. When the Apostles began to evangelize the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles, they used the already established Septuagint as their Bible.

Scholars also recognize that the NT writers quoted extensively from the Septuagint, e.g. Matt. 1:23. The Septuagint became the OT of the early Church

The OT of the most ancient surviving Christian Bible manuscripts - Codex Vaticanus (4th century), Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) and Codex Alexandrinus (5th century) - are Greek Septuagint text. Apart from holes and missing pages, the Codex Vaticanus contains all the Books of the Catholic OT, except I and II Maccabees. The Codex Sinaiticus only lacks II Maccabees but also includes IV Maccabees. The Codex Alexandrinus contains all of the Catholic OT Books plus III and IV Maccabees. These manuscripts show that the Septuagint with its larger and looser canon was the OT "Bible" of the early Church

[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]n conclusion the Catholic Church did not add to the OT. The Catholic OT Canon (also the numbering of the Psalms) came from the ancient Greek Septuagint Bible. Protestants, following the tradition of the Pharisaic Jews, accept the shorter Hebrew Canon, even though the Jews also reject the NT Books. The main problem is that the Bible does not define itself. No where in the Sacred Writings are the divinely inspired Books listed completely. (The Table of Contents is the publishing editor's words, like the footnotes.) The Bible needs a visible, external authority guided by the Holy Spirit to define both the OT and NT Canons. This authority is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. As St. Augustine writes, "I would not have believed the Gospel had not the authority of the Church moved me." [Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, 15th ed., 129:8]

Again Historically the KJV changed the Translations, 1525 words with different meanings where changed to suit what King James purposed to be the "better" translation, King james Translations where provocitive in a number of ways, he rendered Greek word presbuteros, traditionally translated as Priest, to elder — a literal translation that slighted the connection og the Catholic clergy.

A word that was again traditionally meant babtism was changed to washing, and so forth

How can KJV be the better one, when King james version has been changed to modify his beliefs not the word of God.

But because of the "Lost in translation" rule, the bible has been translated to many times for there to be a truley accurate reading, most translations went from hebrew/Greek to Latin to English, there is a english bible directly translated from the original Hebrew text it is the St. Joseph Version of the New American Bible
 

writer

Active Member
67 The catholic Church historically is the first cristian church
so u don't mean "Catholic" in the sense of a proper noun?
Then you're correct

we didnt add books to the bible the KJV removes the Apycrpha,
the Jewish Apocrypha's never the Bible, isn't now, 'n never will b.
Apart from where it merely duplicates genuine OT Scripture.
In any case, i believe the original KJV included the Apocrypha, even if it labelled it as Apocrypha

Historically...Greek-speaking Jews preferred the larger canon found in the Greek Septuagint Bible - a 2nd-century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scripture.
The Apocrypha originated in Greek. Around the same time as the Septuagint translation. The Apocrypha was never part of any prevalent Jewish canon. The oldest existing manuscripts of the Septuagint we have date to around AD 300. At least half a millenium after that translation was begun. The manuscripts themselves differ in the Apocryphal books they contain, but not differing w/ regard to the OT Scripture books

It was the "Bible" for the Greek-speaking Jews.
To an extent. For some. It'd be more accurate to say that Septuagint manuscripts we possess today "contain" the OT Bible

When the Apostles began to evangelize the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles, they used the already established Septuagint as their Bible.
Similar to the KJV for a time, and in the then world-language of Greek, the Septuagint was the prevalent, but by no means only, translation from the Hebrew Scriptures. But the apostles' (NT), and others', OT quotes aren't limited to only the Septuagint.
If that's what the gentleman was suggesting

The Septuagint became the OT of the early Church
The apostles and Lord Jesus never labelled, or recognized, whatever Septuagint Apocrypha-portion they possessed as Scripture, OT. Later brothers, such as Jerome (AD 400), the translator of what became the prevalent Latin translation of the Bible, realized and wrote, during his translation work, that the Apocrypha was both inferior to Scripture, and not Scripture

The OT of the most ancient surviving Christian Bible manuscripts - Codex Vaticanus (4th century), Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) and Codex Alexandrinus (5th century) - are Greek Septuagint text.
The OT preceded Christians, and was Jewish in origin. Not Greek, nor Greek-Jewish.
Nor's the Septuagint the most accurate Greek translation necessarily. Either then or now

the Catholic Church did not add to the OT.
That's correct. Bcuz the upper-case Catholic Church didn't even exist, esp as we know it, until around the late 6th century.
On the other hand, the gentleman's statement could be said to be incorrect in the sense that Catholicism, in contrast to Jerome, officially did label Jewish Apocrypha "Scripture" in its council of Trent in reaction to Martin Luther et al in the 1500s

The main problem is that the Bible does not define itself.
To the contrary: the Lord Jesus, as recorded by John, said in John 5 that "Scripture can't be broken." In 2 Tim 3, thru His sent-one Paul, He breathed out that "all Scripture's God-breathed." In addition, He often, as when being tempted by Satan, recorded in Matthew 4, said "It's written." Or "this Scripture must be fulfilled." As also His apostles often wrote. Thereby labelling whatever writing from which they quoted "Scripture." Neither He nor they ever label Jewish Apocrypha "Scripture" or "word of God." As well they shouldn't. Since it wasn't. Isn't. Wherever it doesn't merely duplicate OT prophets' writings.
Where the Jewish Apocrypha blatantly purports to attribute parts of itself to genuine OT writers, such as Solomon or the writer of Esther, who absolutely didn't write the Apocrypha: the Apocrypha plainly can "be broken." And's not breathed-out by the Truth. Since the Truth wouldn't lie nor fictionalize on that scale.
Luke, Paul's coworker, records his Lord's words in Luke 24 delinieating "the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms" as the 3 general sections of the OT. As Jews do today. Law, Prophets, and Writings. Speaking generally. Though Moses himself was a prophet of Jah. In Luke 24 and John 5 the Lord Jesus points out that Scripture's point is Him. It testifies concering Him. This is also a definition of Scripture

The Bible needs a visible, external authority guided by the Holy Spirit to define both the OT and NT Canons.
The invisible Holy Spirit defined His Scriptures by the very acts of their authors' inspiration ("respiration") and writing. His "holy apostles and prophets in spirit" Ephesians 3:5; Romans 16:26; Colossians 1:25; 1 Peter 1:10-12; 2 P 1:19-21; 3:15-16; Revelation 1:1-2, 11; 22:6-10, 18-19; John 20:31

This authority is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
what a laff

Augustine writes, "I would not have believed the Gospel had not the authority of the Church moved me."
Scriptures, and the gospel, are for the church. Not vice versa, in that sense.
In any case, "the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles out of faith, announced the gospel beforehand to Abraham: 'In you shall all the nations be blessed'" long before God's church came into existence
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I am happy with the KJV. I was brought up with it , and do not have any trouble with the language.

I am equally happy for others to read other Bibles.

The exact words are not important for me ...it is the inspiration in the message.
and this is found in all Bibles.

Some times when passages are read in Church I am taken by surprise by seeing the message in a new light.

They will be the same words I have read before... But the words can be brought alive by hearing them spoken, and given special meaning by showing them in a new or modern context.

Bible reading in an academic sense is not for me.
strict analysis can miss the message by a mile.
 

writer

Active Member
67 rendered Greek word presbuteros, traditionally translated as Priest, to elder — a literal translation that slighted the connection og the Catholic clergy.
"presbuteros" as used by the apostles = "elders." That's the meaning of the Greek. "Priest" in the New Testament Greek is another word. As words, they're completely separate. If that slights Catholic clericalism, or any clericalism, that's good, altho that's 2ndary. As r any effects of the translation. What's primary in this case is accuracy. On the separate issue of "clergy," the Lord Himself hated both the works, and the teaching, of the Nicolaitans (Nico, victor/laitan, people), the "conquerors of the people"

A word that was again traditionally meant babtism was changed to washing, and so forth
"Baptism" is from the Greek directly. A transliteration. Of the Greek "baptitzo" or its forms. It means dip, submerge, or immerse. (This is not to argue for a legalistic means of baptizing, but simply to point out the meaning of a word, as for translation.) The only other word that Lord Jesus used for, or to imply, baptism, at least once, is "water." In John 3. And that's an exception in uses of "water" in the Bible. "Washing," in NT Greek and English, means exactly what it says. Washing.
Washing's not used for baptism. Tho at least once it's used with baptism. "Baptitzo," meaning dipping, is used by extension at least once for "washing." Since, as with a sink and without a dishwasher, submerging the cups and plates etc is part of washing them. The word "washing" in the NT mostly isn't speaking of baptism at all. Certainly not directly. Thanx
 
[SIZE=-1]The earliest manuscripts of the Septuagint are from Qumran and are dated to the second century BCE. (96–180) not 300 AD[/SIZE]

ther only reason i will continue on with the next part is because the "what a laff" part, Obvioously non cathoics are brought up misinformed, parts of the bible Ignored parts of the Bible empahsised, not the bible as whole, as it should be, so part 2:

Scriptually Speaking the Catholic Church as in Roman Catholic Church was the first Cristian church in the sense the Catholic Teachings and celebrations go closley with the teachings of the Apostles

Origins Of Peter as Pope

Peter "rock": "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Some have tried to argue that Jesus did not mean that his Church would be built on Peter but on something else.

Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.

These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."

The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.

The Apostles gathered at houses and Began teachign the gospel, breaking bread and drinking wine, to remember the words of the last supper. and the break offs of the other sects Eat crackers and drink apple juice or oysters and water, If the bible is 100 % truth, without fault, every meanign to be taken exactly word for word, then why is the breaking bread and drinking wine to celebrate The words of the last supper so bad, did jesus not say "This IS my Blood" "This IS my body" dont recall the scripture reading "if you hold the wine to the light and shake it it looks like it could be my blood and if you add lots of iron it may taste like blood" or " If you think the bread into really small thins slices and hold it up to the light it will appear to be skin" The Bible is litteral, then so are those phrases, which brings me to # 2. The Catholic Church Follows Jesus teachings.

as i mentioned before The KJV Replaces The Hebrew word for Priest to elder, following the Oldest Original translation using the most common Word of the time the word meant "Preist" 3. The Catholic Church follows the hierechy of the original church, Peter was clearly made To be the "Leader of the church" (pope) then commisioned the other apostles to go out and spread the good news (Cardinals) in turn they needed more people the religion Historically was growing so the Apostles commisioned Bishops and then came priests.

If the Question Still remains is Peters church the oringinal Church then reading scripture carfully will allow you to see that yes the church peter commisioned is obviously the first church.

4. John 20:19–23. Let me read it: "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained

So obviously his commisioned priest can forgive sins, yet the non Catholic church's say no man can forgive sins, again
and to offer state a fact about the statment made, Jesus was not only Fully GOd, but he was Fully Man

4. Our priests are from the decendants of the priest of the oringal Bible, following the same Commision.

Now after establishing the Catholic Church as the first church i will continue on

The Apostles didnt need to "Label" The books in which they qouted, Just needed to qoute them referance back the Qoutes found in the Gospel of mathew to a OT reading in the KJV and mostly not find them , as they are not found in the KJV because they were removed because KJ believed that the greek text where not The words of god, He determines what is and isnt the word of god? Dating back to 1st centery BC is the Septuingt.

The Bible "DOES NOT" Define itself in the sence the what scriptures should be in the bible and what should
"No where in the Sacred Writings are the divinely inspired Books listed completely"

and as Far as the Bible Being All truth, one thing is for certain, the Bible is the word of God, and The Bible Inspired the Writers to write what they wrote, But Plenty of the Bible, are Parables, Or stories as a response,

Example:

The story of Adam and Eve in Genesis is mythical. Even so it fails to present any valid morals, and instead proposes that a) it is acceptable to punish people for the sins of others (original sin) and b) that death is a suitable punishment for disobedience (5th Commandment , Thou shall Not Kill" . Adam and Eve's sons must have slept with their own mother. (Biblically- and Morally thats Wrong) God is shown to be a bad parent, uncaring. The logic of the story is faulty.

Did God Create All Life: yes
Where there names Adma and Eve? Probally not, Was there a snake tempting them, Probbally Not, Because God made all creatures, and It was Good, Did Man and women fall under sin after beign tempted By evils, Yes, Was i because god said dont eat fruit from that tree? Probally not.

Adam and Eve was a story told with a moral and or a meaning, god did Create man, and just as the rest of gods creation it was good , Pure , Humans where the rulers of the earth but man sinned agaisnt god (eatng the fruit) becasue they where tempted by sin/Evil (Snake) the sin most likely wasnt eating the Fruit of the tree of knowledge but more likley The fruit was part of the story to reference a way that man disobeyed gods Commandment and god Shut off the gates to this gorgeous garden, to Paradise (Heaven) but made a promise that one day the women will bear child (Jesus) and the snake will bite at his heal (tempation of the devil) But the Serpent (devil/Sin) shall be crushed, sounds like a Bunch of metephors to me, None theological scholars actually find reference to the story of adam and eve in Babolonyian Myths, It is later said that More then Likely Adam and Eve was a story Given to the Babolonyians when hebrew where questioned about there faith after babolonyians todl there story,

When the skies above were not yet named
Nor earth below pronounced by name,
Apsu, the first one, their begetter,
And maker Tiamat, who bore them all,
Had mixed their waters together,
But had not formed pastures, nor discovered reed-beds;
When yet no gods were manifest,
Nor names pronounced, nor destinies decreed,
Then gods were born within them. (Dalley 233)

The Bible is a collection of stories Told with a great meaning, but not all the words are 100 % to the "T" Exactly as it happened, Each Gospel has slight differneces to make the story more Ecceptable to the target "3 Kings" To target (Rich People of the time) 3 Wise men (Poorer People of the time) The Bible is meant to tell us the word of God, God created us all, because of our sins we may not enter the kingdom of heaven untill the messiah comes , The messiah has come, died defeated satan and has opened the "gates" (gates at garden of eaden , hmmmmm) to heaven, and that one day jesus wll come to judge the living and the dead, that is the word of God, The Bible exists to tell us the good News, Jesus is born , He has dies , he is risen, and he will come again, that is the word of god, not that there where 7 ears of corn in josephs dream, (though that does have scripyual relevence) but numbers and dates couldnt have been presice, for the most part, think about ever hear a story once, travel for so many miles and tell the story without every writing down, the story begins to take its own form, but the meaning of the story remains the same, so yes the bible was inspired by God, but not Written by god, and only God holds obsolute Truth,

and do more research the Apycropha was in the Bible Before KJV and was removed simply becasue it was greek, The Bible was changed to meet the needs of a king, a king with less Authority then the Church at the time.

The Only reason Catholic's faith are questioned so much is becasue of the protestant reformation, Before that there was only The Roman Catholic church as means of the Cristian Faith and that is historical, The Non Catholic Cristian Faiths are Branch off's of the church which came before them, and thats not religiously speaking thats Historically speaking..

Martin Luther Posted 95 thesis and because the church did agree with most and not all, He broke off and started his own religion....

Hense the Demoninations

other then the Actual Apologetics of the catholic faith considering the term catholic was not used in the Bible as the first church doesnt means its not the first Cristian church thought it does become hard to prove, but i can tell you historically The branch off's are just that branch off's
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
ApologeticsCatholic said:
other then the Actual Apologetics of the catholic faith considering the term catholic was not used in the Bible as the first church doesnt means its not the first Cristian church thought it does become hard to prove, but i can tell you historically The branch off's are just that branch off's
Ummmm.... what does 90% of this post have to do with the thread topic?

Start a new thread if you'd like to teach everyone about your faith.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I think people have the tendency to forget that KJV is only for those who speak English. Those in the Vatican today, don't use KJV, exclusively. They have other versions available to them, like the Septuagint in Greek, and the Vulgate Bible in Latin.

As ApologeticsCatholic had stated, the Septuagint contained only the Hebrew Scripture, thus the Old Testament, plus they added the Apocrypha to their book. It has nothing on the Christian New Testament.

Since, there is a new translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Tanakh (1985) by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS), thus the OT Bible, I no longer use the KJV whenever reading or referring to the Old Testament, except as comparison.

(Note that there is an older 1917's version of JPS, but this was not really a translation, but modern adaptation of the KJV. The new 1985's translation is not a revised edition of 1917; it's a completely new translation of the Masoretic text.)

I preferred the JPS to both KJV and Good News Bible.

With the Good News bible, they translated Nephilim into "giants" and the cherubim into "living creature". For years, I wondered what the hell is "living creature". It simply makes more sense to kept it as Nephilm and cherubim. I'm all for simplication, but not to the point where I don't understand what they mean by it.
 
gnostic said:
With the Good News bible, they translated Nephilim into "giants" and the cherubim into "living creature". For years, I wondered what the hell is "living creature". It simply makes more sense to kept it as Nephilm and cherubim. I'm all for simplication, but not to the point where I don't understand what they mean by it.
They often translated it "living creature" because, well, that's what the word used in Greek actually means. The word in Greek is zoa, and from it we get, for example, the English word "zoo." The word for "cherub" is different, but don't scoff at the translation in some places so easily; sometimes that's actualy what it says.
 

may

Well-Known Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
but don't scoff at the translation in some places so easily; sometimes that's actualy what it says.
many people scoff at the new world translation but this translation actually gets back to the original meanings of the pure word of God , and the reason that many religious leaders of christendom dont like this good translation is because it is the truth , it is a translation that is not clouded by religious traditions. religious leaders like the traditions of man better than the pure word of God. but Jehovahs witnesses stick only to the bible , it is all we need. New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
No matter what our circumstances, the Bible contains the direction and counsel that we need. Read it daily.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
gnostic said:
As ApologeticsCatholic had stated, the Septuagint contained only the Hebrew Scripture, thus the Old Testament, plus they added the Apocrypha to their book. It has nothing on the Christian New Testament.

No, the Septuagint contained the Deuterocanonicals even before the Church was formed and it, with those extra books discared by both Masoretes and Protestants was used by Hellenised Jews in the Diaspora. Nobody added the 'Apocrypha' except for pre-Christian Jews who considered the books Scripture. The entire Septuagint, including Deuterocanon was completed by the first century BC and this was the most widely used text amongst Diaspora Jews in the likes of Egypt, Greece and Asia Minor. The Roman Catholic Church never added anything that wasn't there from the beginning (in fact Rome didn't even use all of the Septuagint, which is why their canon is shorter than ours). The Masoretes threwut the Deuterocanon and opted for a different textual tradition (there were several as the DSS show without doubt) than that upon which the Septuagint was based during the period when Judaism was attempting to fight off Christian influence in the diaspora. The MT is a well post-Christian recension, and why a Protestant would prefer a text compiled by a community hostile to the Church over the text inherited by the Church is a great puzzle to me - or it would be if I didn't realise that most Protestants are entirely unaware of the history of the OT canon.

James
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
may said:
many people scoff at the new world translation but this translation actually gets back to the original meanings of the pure word of God , and the reason that many religious leaders of christendom dont like this good translation is because it is the truth , it is a translation that is not clouded by religious traditions. religious leaders like the traditions of man better than the pure word of God. but Jehovahs witnesses stick only to the bible , it is all we need. New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
No matter what our circumstances, the Bible contains the direction and counsel that we need. Read it daily.

Not clouded by religious traditions, eh? Where do you get your contents from then? And, even more apositely, just how do you come to the peculiar rendering of the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah from? I recall another thread where you all but admitted that such was a JW tradition, and it can clearly be nothing else.

James
 

may

Well-Known Member
JamesThePersian said:
Not clouded by religious traditions, eh? Where do you get your contents from then? And, even more apositely, just how do you come to the peculiar rendering of the Tetragrammaton as Jehovah from? I recall another thread where you all but admitted that such was a JW tradition, and it can clearly be nothing else.

James
translating the name of God into English is not JW tradition ,it is just how it is,
In the Hebrew language it is written יהוה. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original "Old Testament," or Hebrew Scriptures
The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah´ (הוה), meaning "to become," and actually signifies "He Causes to Become." Thus, God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name.
consider the name of Jesus. Do you know how Jesus’ family and friends addressed him in day-to-day conversation while he was growing up in Nazareth? The truth is, no human knows for certain, although it may have been something like Yeshua (or perhaps Yehoshua). It certainly was not Jesus.
Must we stop using the name of Jesus because most of us, or even all of us, do not really know its original pronunciation? So far, no translator has suggested this. We like to use the name, for it identifies the beloved Son of God, Jesus Christ, who gave his lifeblood for us. Would it be showing honor to Jesus to remove all mention of his name in the Bible and replace it with a mere title like "Teacher," or "Mediator"? Of course not! We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly pronounced in our language. and so it is with Jehovahs name ,we dont remove it from our bibles that would be very bad indeed. also with other names,
we say "Jeremiah," not Yir·meya´hu. Similarly we say Isaiah, although in his own day this prophet likely was known as Yesha‛·ya´hu.
And the same is true with the name Jehovah. Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. It identifies the Creator, the living God, the Most High to whom Jesus said: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."—Matthew 6:9.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
may said:
translating the name of God into English is not JW tradition ,it is just how it is,

First, that's not a translation. Second, it's not even a transliteration (which would be YHWH). The fact is that neither you, nor anyone else, knows how to pronounce the name of God. The only honest way to restore the name to Scripture, then, would be to render the Tetragrammaton in either Hebrew or its English transliteration. Instead what JWs do is to prefer a German derived attempt to restore the missing vowels, with those vowels being based upon the vowels in the Greek Adonai. That the result, Jehovah, is preferred over YHWH, especially for a group that considers the name of God to be so important, is a clear example of religious tradition. Now, the argument as to how to pronounce the name is irrelevant, as you could choose to pronounce YHWH, Jehovah if you so wished seeing as it is all but unpronounceable. It is disingenuous, though, to claim that Jehovah is the name of God when you are, in effect, saying that it is an Anglicisation of a Germanified imposition of Greek vowels on a Hebrew original.

James
 

may

Well-Known Member
JamesThePersian said:
First, that's not a translation. Second, it's not even a transliteration (which would be YHWH). The fact is that neither you, nor anyone else, knows how to pronounce the name of God. The only honest way to restore the name to Scripture, then, would be to render the Tetragrammaton in either Hebrew or its English transliteration. Instead what JWs do is to prefer a German derived attempt to restore the missing vowels, with those vowels being based upon the vowels in the Greek Adonai. That the result, Jehovah, is preferred over YHWH, especially for a group that considers the name of God to be so important, is a clear example of religious tradition. Now, the argument as to how to pronounce the name is irrelevant, as you could choose to pronounce YHWH, Jehovah if you so wished seeing as it is all but unpronounceable. It is disingenuous, though, to claim that Jehovah is the name of God when you are, in effect, saying that it is an Anglicisation of a Germanified imposition of Greek vowels on a Hebrew original.

James
if my language was hebrew i would read hebrew bibles ,my language is English so i read English bibles, but the bible that i would read would not take the name out of the bible it is not good in the eyes of my God Jehovah to take the name out . this link makes for interesting reading .http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/article_05.htm
 
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