Ben Shapiro, Berkeley, and "hate speech"

[icehorse]

This morning I listened to the talk and Q&A session Ben Shapiro just gave at Berkeley. Then I did some googling to try to find some of the horrible "hate speech" or white supremacist things he's said. What I heard and found was a conservative guy, really into relying on evidence, who holds some opinions I disagree with.

I'm not the best googler - perhaps someone can link to "hate speech" from Shapiro. But as of this moment, I'm really unclear what all the fuss was about? It seems to me that the extreme left just cost us $600k (in campus security costs), for no reason?

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm not the best googler - perhaps someone can link to "hate speech" from Shapiro. But as of this moment, I'm really unclear what all the fuss was about? It seems to me that the extreme left just cost us $600k (in campus security costs), for no reason?

Your conclusion is correct -

1) Shapiro is an Orthodox Jew and the white power extremists have him as enemy #1.

2) The left hate him because he presents logical arguments that are backed with facts that they are unable to counter. Resulting in them reducing themselves to children in his presence, for they fear that which they cannot understand.

3) You could probably only find him somewhat extreme in his anti-Muslim views, as he doesn't see any non-radical Islam. I don't either, but I don't view that as an extremist position - I view that as a position or opinion formed by the violence of the religion toward others, not some sort of bigotry.

I have seen nothing that qualifies Ben Shapiro as any sort of hate monger, and I at least compliment you on listening to his talk and keeping your mind open to non-conforming views. You're never going to find some sort of racist/hate comment from Mr. Shapiro because it doesn't exist.

 

[sun rise]

From what I see he's not engaging in hate speech but is a right-wing extremist, a political stance. However, he does make a decent argument a bit of the time such as this one.

As someone who despises political correctness with the fiery hatred of a thousand suns, I find this problematic. Here’s why: I believe there’s a difference between political incorrectness and bigotry, or political incorrectness and vulgarity. I have this problem with Trump, and I have this same problem with the alt right that simplistically embraces Trump because they mesh being a ******* with being politically incorrect. They’re not the same thing. It is politically incorrect to point out that black Americans commit a wildly disproportionate share of crime, or that Jews comprise an outsized percentage of successful media moguls, doctors, and lawyers. It is also politically incorrect to point out that cultural stereotypes are sometimes rooted in reality -- Milo's right about that. It is racist, however, to tweet the word “n*****” at a black person, and it is anti-Semitic to tweet a meme of a stereotypical hook-nosed Jew controlling the world or greedily collecting shekels. There is a difference between the two.

And it actually does the cause of political incorrectness a grave disservice to merge the two. It makes it easy to dismiss solid information and data by writing it all off as the work of bigots. The alt right isn’t tearing down taboos regarding language, if that’s really what they think they’re doing. All they’re doing is re-enshrining in the American mind a basic falsehood about the right itself: that we are bigots who use selective data-picking to back our political viewpoints. The self-aggrandizing belief that trolling Microsoft Artificial Intelligence bots on Twitter into tweeting about the wonders of Hitler somehow strikes a blow for free speech is sheer fantasy. It’s teenage puerility. It’s damn dumb.

There’s another problem, too: the alt right gives cover to actual anti-Semites and racists. I’m glad to grant Milo’s premise that there’s hardly any racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-Semitism in America. I believe that. But when I can’t tell the difference between a David Duke tweet and a tweet from Milo’s biggest fans, that’s not my fault – that’s the fault of the person tweeting like David Duke. When I can’t tell the difference between a trolling tweet and a death threat, perhaps the author ought to be clearer in his verbiage.

Words have meanings. So do images. I don’t think it’s a worthwhile goal to remove the meaning of words so that all words are equally offensive or non-offensive. That just leaves us in a Kafka-esque (to use Milo’s word) world, in which we can’t even talk to each other because we have no common meanings. Discounting Der Sturmer cartoons to the level of Calvin and Hobbes may please the Beavis and Butthead 2.0 crowd, but it does nothing for actually changing things for the better. All it does is soft-pedal the anti-Semitism of Der Sturmer.

I don’t expect many people on the alt right to read this, and I expect fewer of them to take it seriously; they’re too busy trolling. So, when I’m hit with the next wave of anti-Semitic nonsense, I’ll give you Milo’s benefit of the doubt, and assume you’re mostly just childish dumbasses with a few bigots sprinkled in, rather than the other way around. Fair enough?

Responding To The Alt Right: Are They Bigots, Or Just Stupid Children?

 

[YmirGF]

From what I see he's not engaging in hate speech but is a right-wing extremist, a political stance. However, he does make a decent argument a bit of the time such as this one.

Agreed. For example, as a conservative Canadian, I find his comments on abortion to be a bit off the wall, but I'm sure it plays better in the states. I guess we are just not so hung up on it above the 49th. *shrugs*

In regards to the OP. Ben is a smart guy. I was quite impressed with how well he handled himself in the Q&A session. He is pretty well informed on a number of issues but makes it clear when he is unfamiliar with something.

 

[Mindmaster]

From what I see he's not engaging in hate speech but is a right-wing extremist, a political stance.

I don't view him as an extremist at all. Extremists advocate positions which include racism, bigotry, or white nationalism. Ben Shapiro's message is more akin to, "This is stupid, stop doing it, and here's why."

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Kids. Sheesh.

If they'd vote instead of needlessly protest, actual liberal represention would be stronger.

Luckily, no reasonable person would take the actions of some confused kids and conflate their actions as representative of the entire liberal worldview or the Democratic Party.

Right?

 

[sun rise]

I don't view him as an extremist at all. Extremists advocate positions which include racism, bigotry, or white nationalism. Ben Shapiro's message is more akin to, "This is stupid, stop doing it, and here's why."

Not all extreme conservatives are alt-right racists.

 

[Mindmaster]

Kids. Sheesh.

If they'd vote instead of needlessly protest, actual liberal represention would be stronger.

Luckily, no reasonable person would take the actions of some confused kids and conflate their actions as representative of the entire liberal worldview or the Democratic Party.

Right?

Actually, if they went out to vote more there would be more moderate/conservative votes. Only 40% of the population attends college, and that percentage still has a great deal of conservative voices - you are also more likely to be a conservative if you are in a religious program, a doctor, or a lawyer. In the general population there are more right leaning people if they show up to the polls. Leftism has it's niches - tech, science, young people, old people (ex-hippie, old school Dems who vote straight ticket), and artists... That's about it...

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Actually, if they went out to vote more there would be more moderate/conservative votes. Only 40% of the population attends college, and that percentage still has a great deal of conservative voices - you are also more likely to be a conservative if you are in a religious program, a doctor, or a lawyer. In the general population there are more right leaning people if they show up to the polls. Leftism has it's niches - tech, science, young people, old people (ex-hippie, old school Dems who vote straight ticket), and artists... That's about it...

That's a wildly inaccurate view of American voters based on unsubstatiated stereotypes.

Also hilariously illogical. . . You claim more votes for conservatives if the young vote, then include "young people" as a Leftist* niche. I'd give ya the funny frubal for that one. . . If it wouldn't get me in trouble.

* copyright Mindmaster, 2017

 

[Mindmaster]

Not all extreme conservatives are alt-right racists.

I think it's pretty strange to classify someone with traditional values as an extremist, since mostly they just imbue the views of our predecessors. Even the staunchest of right wingers are pretty darn tame in comparison to the far left. Anyway, the leftists don't get to redefine this word any more than they can by using the term Nazi, or hate speech (which seems to include everything they don't like, lol). Extremist means something in particular, and there is nearly none of it on the right side of the fence. The white supremacists don't even count as "right wingers" according to the views they've held as they only have been voting Republican because the Dems have gone so far down the identity rabbit hole that they have no other choice.

 

[Enoch07]

The white supremacists don't even count as "right wingers" according to the views they've held as they only have been voting Republican because the Dems have gone so far down the identity rabbit hole that they have no other choice.

This is what the liberal media omits in their reporting. At best they say far left vs far right. But that is not true. What is really happening is you have thr alt-left vs the left, centrist, and the right vs the alt-right. Moderates (in this case is defined as traditional left, centrist and right) are fighting a war on 2 fronts. We fight alt-left with our right fist, and alt-right with the left fist. The media is so simple mimded it boils it down to just a left vs right fight which is untrue.

 

[columbus]

This is what the liberal media omits in their reporting.

This is the only important thing I would differ with.
I tend to read a variety of sources and conservative media does the same thing. I personally think that they do it more, although it's very common across the ideological spectrum. It is not all that different.
Tom

 

[sun rise]

This is the only important thing I would differ with.
I tend to read a variety of sources and conservative media does the same thing. I personally think that they do it more, although it's very common across the ideological spectrum. It is not all that different.
Tom

Bias in the media is an old, old story with some outlets qualifying as "yellow journalism". There are thoughtful outlets on both sides and I'll read intelligent and honest reporting from any source.

I do agree with you about the right going further especially with the "liar in chief" in the White House lying and boasting about it.

For what it's worth, a lot I see on the "American Conservative" home page I classify as typical biased reporting, but they do have interesting articles that cause me to think such as Where Liberals and Conservatives are Wrong About the Constitution

 

[Enoch07]

This is the only important thing I would differ with.
I tend to read a variety of sources and conservative media does the same thing. I personally think that they do it more, although it's very common across the ideological spectrum. It is not all that different.
Tom

True dat. All the more reason to not beleive the majority of MSM.