Believable?

[Vinayaka]

Believable isn't the same as logical, sensible, or even sane.

Right now I can't think of a single religious concept one can put out there that isn't believable by someone. The mere fact it's a religious concept and started out somehow makes it believable by someone?

 

[dybmh]

I try to look at it from a different perspective:

Is it useful?

Is it harmful?

Is it offensive?

Is it arrogant?


That said, I completely agree. Believable is not at similar to convincing. Believable is virtually worthless when assessing the value of a religious claim. Especially for me. I'm an optimist.

 

[Nimos]

Depend what you mean, I doubt there is anyone truly believing this creation story today:

Norse creation
Ymir grew so large and so evil that the three gods killed Ymir. The blood that flowed
from Ymir's wound was so great that almost all the frost giants drowned in the torrent.
Only the frost giants Bergelmer and his wife escape the flood in a chest, arriving on the
mountain of Jötunheim (Jotunheim), which became the home of the giants.

Yggdrasill and the Nine Worlds
Odin and his brothers then used Ymir's body to create the universe. This universe
comprises of nine worlds. They placed the body over the void called Ginnungagap.
They used his flesh for creating the earth and his blood for the sea. His skull, held up by
four dwarves (Nordri, Sudri, Austri, and Vestri), was used to create the heaven. Then
using sparks from Muspelheim, the gods created the sun, moon and stars. While Ymir's
eyebrows were used to create a place where the human race could live in; a place called
Midgard (Middle Earth).
A great ash tree called Yggdrasill ("World Tree") supported the universe, with roots that
connects the nine worlds together.

 

[Vinayaka]

Depend what you mean, I doubt there is anyone truly believing this creation story today:

Norse creation
Ymir grew so large and so evil that the three gods killed Ymir. The blood that flowed
from Ymir's wound was so great that almost all the frost giants drowned in the torrent.
Only the frost giants Bergelmer and his wife escape the flood in a chest, arriving on the
mountain of Jötunheim (Jotunheim), which became the home of the giants.

Yggdrasill and the Nine Worlds
Odin and his brothers then used Ymir's body to create the universe. This universe
comprises of nine worlds. They placed the body over the void called Ginnungagap.
They used his flesh for creating the earth and his blood for the sea. His skull, held up by
four dwarves (Nordri, Sudri, Austri, and Vestri), was used to create the heaven. Then
using sparks from Muspelheim, the gods created the sun, moon and stars. While Ymir's
eyebrows were used to create a place where the human race could live in; a place called
Midgard (Middle Earth).
A great ash tree called Yggdrasill ("World Tree") supported the universe, with roots that
connects the nine worlds together.

Yes, I think you're right about believability when it comes to myth. Still, there may well be Norse practitioners that believe it.

 

[sun rise]

Flood stories are very common in mythology although this one is different.

And of course Middle Earth is special.

 

[Vinayaka]

Flood stories are very common in mythology although this one is different.

And of course Middle Earth is special.

Myths are odd, in that there are some old stories that people debate about ... literal, or myth?

 

[Nimos]

Yes, I think you're right about believability when it comes to myth. Still, there may well be Norse practitioners that believe it.

There are people that follow the "Asatroen" as its called in Danish and is not really a continuation or revival of the old Viking faith. But rather seems to be sort of like a way of viewing life or something like that. Its not really all that clear. But I don't think there are more than a few thousand members.

Also there do not exists any "bible" they have to follow, but seems to be more of a "hygge / having a good time" kind of thing, with some rituals and events to celebrate

So it seems to be mostly about reading old texts and get some knowledge about the Gods, the old sagas, songs etc. At least on the danish site (Fornsidr) they say that an ancient text called "Hávamál - Den højeste tale" ("The most pristine speech" or "The highest speech", not really sure how to translate it.), which is an ancient nordic text, that have been translated into Danish, is a must to read to get started with the Asatro. So will try to read that later on.

But in general, I do not get the impression that you can compare the religion with that of Christianity or other religions for that matter. It really seems to be more about traditions, personal development and having a good time, than it having to believe in these stories as if they were true.

 

[Heyo]

Depend what you mean, I doubt there is anyone truly believing this creation story today:

I once thought the same about the biblical creation myth.

 

[Nimos]

Yes, I think you're right about believability when it comes to myth. Still, there may well be Norse practitioners that believe it.

Manage to read through the text now and even in Danish it makes close to no sense.

This is a translation the best I can do it, and will try to translate it as close to how it is written.

70. Rather alive than killed.
always a wise man get cow.
On rich man hearth I saw fire flame.
but outside was Death at the door.

71. There are limps on Horses and shepherds with one hand
and deaf, which succeed in Combat.
Blind is better than burnt to be.
The corpse lies to no avail.

And these are some of those that made just a bit of sense

 

[Nimos]

I once thought the same about the biblical creation myth.

Even though I don't buy the biblical creation story, I still consider it far easier to defend than the Norse one. Im not even sure that they believed it themselves, rather than it just being a good story to tell around the fireplace for some entertainment.

 

[MonkeyFire]

The fact that inner peace allows you to experience nirvana.

 

[The Hammer]

Depend what you mean, I doubt there is anyone truly believing this creation story today:

Norse creation
Ymir grew so large and so evil that the three gods killed Ymir. The blood that flowed
from Ymir's wound was so great that almost all the frost giants drowned in the torrent.
Only the frost giants Bergelmer and his wife escape the flood in a chest, arriving on the
mountain of Jötunheim (Jotunheim), which became the home of the giants.

Yggdrasill and the Nine Worlds
Odin and his brothers then used Ymir's body to create the universe. This universe
comprises of nine worlds. They placed the body over the void called Ginnungagap.
They used his flesh for creating the earth and his blood for the sea. His skull, held up by
four dwarves (Nordri, Sudri, Austri, and Vestri), was used to create the heaven. Then
using sparks from Muspelheim, the gods created the sun, moon and stars. While Ymir's
eyebrows were used to create a place where the human race could live in; a place called
Midgard (Middle Earth).
A great ash tree called Yggdrasill ("World Tree") supported the universe, with roots that
connects the nine worlds together.

Depends on what you mean by believe, this will be the creation myth I teach my children, if they ever ask.

If by believe you mean strict fundamental/literalist interpretations, your view of "belief" is too narrow.

 

[sun rise]

Myths are odd, in that there are some old stories that people debate about ... literal, or myth?

To me myths are based on something that is told and retold and changes over time. So, for example, the Bible talks about the Tower of Babel. Archeologists have identified structures which might be the basis of that Bible myth. Some Very Compelling Evidence the Tower of Babel Was Real

This is far from evidence that the Bible story is literally true. But it is possible that the ziggurat which was extremely tall for buildings of that era could have been changed into the retelling into the myth the Bible records.

Similarly the "parting of the red sea" may have been tidal forces splitting the "reed sea" according to a study.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The mere fact it's a religious concept and started out somehow makes it believable by someone?

Check the concept with science and evidence. If it holds - good. If not - junk it; no matter who said it or who wrote it.

Norse creation
Yggdrasill and the Nine Worlds

Beautiful story. Any day better than the Bible creation story.

 

[LuisDantas]

Believable isn't the same as logical, sensible, or even sane.

Right now I can't think of a single religious concept one can put out there that isn't believable by someone. The mere fact it's a religious concept and started out somehow makes it believable by someone?

Apparently.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I think you're right about believability when it comes to myth. Still, there may well be Norse practitioners that believe it.

I just don't know. Was it ever meant to be believed in? It is not clear, to say the least.

Myth tends to take itself more seriously than that.

 

[wizanda]

Believable isn't the same as logical, sensible, or even sane.

For me to accept an equation to be believable, it has to have a logical, sensible, and sane workings.

Because my method is built on an objective scientific model of the world's religions; plus first hand experience, it does make it accessible data, if people asked rather than assume as they often do.

Thus the same with the equation of people with weak belief systems:

Generally in years of talking with religious people, one of the leading problems is many make boolean assumptions; rather than using a more logical open variable based system, as we would with scientific experimentation for verification.

Right now I can't think of a single religious concept one can put out there that isn't believable by someone. The mere fact it's a religious concept and started out somehow makes it believable by someone?

The problem with this equation is some people are naive, they sit citing one religious texts, and not reading any others, so they stay in the same ignorances...

When a multitude of ideas is correlated, without any direct connection to how they got the same data, it gives data that there is an external Source working to correlate it all.

Because some people will never study to that level of comprehension, in terms of understanding the Oneness of God, from the many textual narratives as One...

They miss the many opportunities to see things that are blatantly in front of us; provable clearer than day, by vast organizations fulfilling prophecies globally, exactly as written.

Think a big part of the problem I've witnessed in the Maya, is people don't choose to read to know the Source internally; they read to believe in fairytales the 'Self' debates externally about.

Everyone in the Maya is in a state of unconscious belief somewhere; the contexts of the Maya though can be shown by real contexts, and real moral issues, to wake us up to what is real.

In my opinion.

 

[Nimos]

Depends on what you mean by believe, this will be the creation myth I teach my children, if they ever ask.

If by believe you mean strict fundamental/literalist interpretations, your view of "belief" is too narrow.

I think the only real requirement for believing is that someone have to be able to convince themselves that a given thing might be possible. Doesn't have to be a fundamentalist type of belief for that.

I could easily understand why one would tell the old Norse stories to their kids as they are very interesting and very fairy tale like. And personally I really like that these God are everything, but perfect which makes them seem more human like.

Here you can find a list of tales:
Tales - Norse Mythology for Smart People

 

[Vinayaka]

Check the concept with science and evidence. If it holds - good. If not - junk it; no matter who said it or who wrote it.

The thread isn't about what's believable by me, or by you, but what might be believable by somebody. Clearly, most of the creation myths are believed by somebody somewhere.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They are welcome to take them as interesting stories of our ancestors and delight in them, but IMHO, beliefs should always be weighed against science and evidence.