Battle for Heaven

[evearael]

This has bugged me for a while... Where in the bible (I want verses!) is this battle described? Because alot of it seems to come from Pardise Lost and Inferno, etc... I've read through the entirety of the bible dozens of times, but I haven't found it or recognized it yet.

Thanks!

 

[Squirt]

This has bugged me for a while... Where in the bible (I want verses!) is this battle described? Because alot of it seems to come from Pardise Lost and Inferno, etc... I've read through the entirety of the bible dozens of times, but I haven't found it or recognized it yet.

Thanks!

There is a "war" in Heaven described in Revelation 12:6-8 during which Lucifer and his followers fought against Michael and his followers. Lucifer was defeated and, along with one-third of the host of heaven, was cast out of God's presence forever. Is this what you were thinking of?

 

[evearael]

What is the timeline in Revelations 12? If this is happening in the beginning of time, what is the meaning of the woman the dragon is pursuing? Or is the battle more recent?

 

[Squirt]

What is the timeline in Revelations 12? If this is happening in the beginning of time, what is the meaning of the woman the dragon is pursuing? Or is the battle more recent?

Obviously, when you're discussing Revelation, you're going to get a whole variety of opinions. You know that, I guess?

My understanding is that Revelation 12:6-8 refers to the time before the earth was populated. I believe that Lucifer attempted to exalt Himself above God and to thwart God's plan for the redemption of mankind. The remainder of the verses are referring to the period of time after Lucifer was cast out of Heaven. I see the child as representing the kingdom of God and the woman representing the Church. Once the child had been born, Lucifer (known after his expulsion from Heaven as Satan) continued his fight against God. This time he did so by attacking the Church.

 

[Adstar]

Here is the scripture.

Revelation 12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman is the body of Christ. The Body of true Christians who believe Jesus.

Jesus also talked of satan being thrown out of heaven:

Luke 10
17 Then the seventy] returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[f] rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

It seems pretty obvious that the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary, the Mother of Jesus. "Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sin, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth...she bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. " Rev. 12:1-2,5 It's pretty obvious that the Child here is Jesus...who is Jesus' mother?

EDIT: Sorry, I misquoted verse 1...the woman is not "clothed with the sin"....she is "clothed with the sun"...amazing how one letter can change things, eh?

FerventGodSeeker

 

[Squirt]

It seems pretty obvious that the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary, the Mother of Jesus. "Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sin, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth...she bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. " Rev. 12:1-2,5 It's pretty obvious that the Child here is Jesus...who is Jesus' mother?

No, no, no, FGS! That interpretation would only be obvious to someone who believes as you do!

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

No, no, no, FGS! That interpretation would only be obvious to someone who believes as you do!

Or anyone who knows who Jesus' mother is ...

FerventGodSeeker

 

[may]

What is the timeline in Revelations 12? If this is happening in the beginning of time, what is the meaning of the woman the dragon is pursuing? Or is the battle more recent?

the woman gives birth to a male child , this child is Gods heavenly kingdom goverment, and it was born in 1914, then it is caught away to God ,and given protection from the dragon ,and it is all happening in this time of the end . we are in the last days right now since 1914, when Gods kingdom was born in the heavens. the battle goes right back to the first ever prophecy in the bible
And I shall put enmity between you(satans seed) and the woman(Gods seed) and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel Genesis 3;15.....

And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.​

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. revelation 12;4-5... the theme of the whole bible is about Gods heavenlykingdom goverment. and we are now well along with many prophecies in the bible , its all happening in these last days,thrilling times indeed

 

[Ernestine]

There was not a battle for heaven, but rather a battle in heaven where Jesus (Michael, the archangel) and his angels fought with Satan and his demons. Jesus prevailed and Satan/demons were cast out of the heavens. They are now confined to the vicinity of earth where they cause mankind much grief knowing they have a short period of time--they no longer have access to heaven. They wait in spritual darkness (tartarus) until their destruction. Read the Book of Revelation which describes the battle and the Book of Jude which describes the prisonlike abased condition in which Satan/demons exist.

 

[Ori]

There was not a battle for heaven, but rather a battle in heaven where Jesus (Michael, the archangel) and his angels fought with Satan and his demons. Jesus prevailed and Satan/demons were cast out of the heavens. They are now confined to the vicinity of earth where they cause mankind much grief knowing they have a short period of time--they no longer have access to heaven. They wait in spritual darkness (tartarus) until their destruction. Read the Book of Revelation which describes the battle and the Book of Jude which describes the prisonlike abased condition in which Satan/demons exist.

If Satan is now confined to Earth, why does he appear in Heaven in the Old Testament?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them ( Job 1: 6)

 

[Adstar]

If Satan is now confined to Earth, why does he appear in Heaven in the Old Testament?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them ( Job 1: 6)

Simple. Because at that time He was free to travel between earth and heaven as he pleased.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Also Micheal is not Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. Micheal is just an angel. Jesus is much more than an angel.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Squirt]

If Satan is now confined to Earth, why does he appear in Heaven in the Old Testament?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them ( Job 1: 6)

I believe these events took place prior to the creation of the world. We were the sons (and daughters) of God. We were the ones spoken of in this verse. Satan (then Lucifer) was another of God's children.

 

[Adstar]

I believe these events took place prior to the creation of the world. We were the sons (and daughters) of God. We were the ones spoken of in this verse. Satan (then Lucifer) was another of God's children.

No these events happened at the time of Job, a man who lived on the earth. Way after creation happened. Read the Book of Job and you will see the sequence of events.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Squirt]

No these events happened at the time of Job, a man who lived on the earth. Way after creation happened. Read the Book of Job and you will see the sequence of events.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

You're right. I was thinking of another verse.

 

[may]

Simple. Because at that time He was free to travel between earth and heaven as he pleased.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

yes that was true , at that time he did have freedom to come and go between heaven and earth, but after the battle in heaven which happened in 1914 with michael being made king , satan was no longer allowed into the heavenly kingdom goverment because all of the rebels were cast out , it would be no good having rebels in a goverment so out they went , so since 1914 the influence of satan and the demons who followed him, has been much worse on the earth because satan knows that he only has a short period of time left.
On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you,having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time. revelation 12;12
(Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.

 

[Adstar]

I do not believe in the 1914 JW thing. I am a Christian.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[may]

I do not believe in the 1914 JW thing. I am a Christian.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

each to their own ,but for me as a christian, i do recognize that Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom goverment in 1914 ,in line with bible prophecy and chronology.its all happening in this time of the end, the last days of humans ruling themselves independant of God started in 1914 , the start of the last days was 1914, and we are now well along in this time of the end. we are living in the conclusion of a system of things but no worries as Daniel 2;44 tells us, this heavenly kingdom will soon be the only goverment around that will make the earth as God wants it to be.
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite Daniel 2;44

 

[Ðanisty]

This must be the most bizarre thread I've ever read. To be honest, I've never once even heard of people believing that Revelations has already happened. I have always been taught that it is a prophecy. I understand that the JWs and the Adventists at least believe that Revelations is happening now, but I've never heard of it happening in the past.