Battle for Heaven

[nutshell]

This must be the most bizarre thread I've ever read. To be honest, I've never once even heard of people believing that Revelations has already happened. I have always been taught that it is a prophecy. I understand that the JWs and the Adventists at least believe that Revelations is happening now, but I've never heard of it happening in the past.

Revelation certainly speaks to now and the future, but the battle that is raging began before the beginning and what we're experiencing now is just a continuiation of that battle.

 

[Ðanisty]

Revelation certainly speaks to now and the future, but the battle that is raging began before the beginning and what we're experiencing now is just a continuiation of that battle.

How do you determine which parts of revelations already happened? Is there another source that you are comparing with?

 

[nutshell]

How do you determine which parts of revelations already happened? Is there another source that you are comparing with?

Good question. I'm not sure of other Biblical sources that have helped me understand the chronology of events. I suppose I've relied on modern-day prophets and scripture that led me to this conclusion.

 

[Ori]

There was a hole here, now it's gone.

 

[may]

This must be the most bizarre thread I've ever read. To be honest, I've never once even heard of people believing that Revelations has already happened. I have always been taught that it is a prophecy. I understand that the JWs and the Adventists at least believe that Revelations is happening now, but I've never heard of it happening in the past.

the bible in the book of revelation speaks about ......the Lords day....... the Lords day started in 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom,and many things in the book of revelation have been happening since then ,
The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days. Behold, the King reigns
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 yes the goodnews is for a witness to the nations
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first
What remarkable events Revelation chapter 12, verses 7 through 17, describes concerning "the Lord’s day" since 1914! (Revelation 1:10) The archangel Michael hurls the renegade Satan from heaven down to the earth. Later, as described at Revelation chapter 19, verses 11 through 16, one called "Faithful and True" ‘treads the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.’ This mighty heavenly warrior is named "King of kings and Lord of lords." Finally, Revelation chapter 20, verses 1 and 2, tells of a great angel who hurls Satan into the abyss and confines him there for a thousand years. Obviously, all these scriptures point to the one Vindicator of Jehovah’s sovereignty, the Lord Jesus Christ, whom Jehovah placed on his glorious heavenly throne in 1914

 

[James the Persian]

the bible in the book of revelation speaks about ......the Lords day....... the Lords day started in 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom,and many things in the book of revelation have been happening since then ,
The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days. Behold, the King reigns
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 yes the goodnews is for a witness to the nations
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first
What remarkable events Revelation chapter 12, verses 7 through 17, describes concerning "the Lord’s day" since 1914! (Revelation 1:10) The archangel Michael hurls the renegade Satan from heaven down to the earth. Later, as described at Revelation chapter 19, verses 11 through 16, one called "Faithful and True" ‘treads the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.’ This mighty heavenly warrior is named "King of kings and Lord of lords." Finally, Revelation chapter 20, verses 1 and 2, tells of a great angel who hurls Satan into the abyss and confines him there for a thousand years. Obviously, all these scriptures point to the one Vindicator of Jehovah’s sovereignty, the Lord Jesus Christ, whom Jehovah placed on his glorious heavenly throne in 1914

May, could you please explain where you get the date of 1914 from? I'm afraid that I can't see anything in Scripture to suggest such a date (and in fact Scripture seems to say that no man will have any warning of when the end is coming) and so I have a hard time understanding how JWs can be so sure about this. I'm sure that this must be some sort of extra-Scriptural teaching in your church but I'd be interested to hear where it came from.

James

 

[may]

May, could you please explain where you get the date of 1914 from? I'm afraid that I can't see anything in Scripture to suggest such a date (and in fact Scripture seems to say that no man will have any warning of when the end is coming) and so I have a hard time understanding how JWs can be so sure about this. I'm sure that this must be some sort of extra-Scriptural teaching in your church but I'd be interested to hear where it came from.

James

yes ,you are correct about no man knowing the day or hour ,even the angels do not know,............ Jesus being made king of the heavenly kingdom goverment is not the same thing as that .
Satan’s entire organization will soon be brought to an end! God has determined exactly when this will occur, and the fulfillment of Bible prophecies makes it clear that we are now living in "the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4) He will soon act for the blessing of all who love him.

 

[Ðanisty]

So you do recognize that Revelations was written as a prophecy. I'm curious as well to understand the 1914 thing. Also, you say that hte prophecies have been fulfilled. Could you be more specific?

 

[James the Persian]

yes ,you are correct about no man knowing the day or hour ,even the angels do not know,............ Jesus being made king of the heavenly kingdom goverment is not the same thing as that .
Satan’s entire organization will soon be brought to an end! God has determined exactly when this will occur, and the fulfillment of Bible prophecies makes it clear that we are now living in "the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4) He will soon act for the blessing of all who love him.

Fair enough. I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but where on earth did the date 1914 come from? I'd genuinely be interested to find out where JWs get this from as, frankly, it seems a little bizarre to me.

James

 

[may]

So you do recognize that Revelations was written as a prophecy. I'm curious as well to understand the 1914 thing. Also, you say that hte prophecies have been fulfilled. Could you be more specific?

Decades in advance, bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. what were these? and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year? As recorded at luke 21;24,Jesus said,Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations(the gentile times king james version) are fullfilled.Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation- the seat of rulership of the line of the kings from the house of David.(psalm48;1-2) however,these kings were unique among national leaders.They sat on Jehovahs throne as representatives of God himself.(1 chronicles 29; 23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovahs rulership.
how and when ,though, did Gods rulership begin to be ...trampled on by the nations...?this happened in 607 BCE when Jerusalem was conquered by the babylonians. Jehovahs throne became vacant, and the line of kings who desended from David was interrupted....2 kings 25;1-26.... would this trampling go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalems last king Zedekiah.......Remove the turban, and lift off the crown... it will certainly become no ones until he comes who has a legal right , and i must give it to him. Ezekiel 12; 26;,27. ...the one who has the legal right to the Davidic crown is Jesus christ ..luke 1;
32,33....when would that grand event occur?Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time,.the account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down . its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper.An angel declared,....let seven times pass over it ...... Daniel 4; 10-16 i know it seems a bit long and drawn out but you did ask....LOL .... any way, in the bible,trees are sometimes used to represent rulership .....Ezekiel 17;22-24 31; 2-5.... so the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how Gods rulership as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interruped. however, the vision served notice that this trampling of Jerusalem would only be temporary .... a period of seven times ... how long a period is that?.
Revelation 12;6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal .....A thousand two hundred and sixty days.... seven times, would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days But, the Gentile nations did not stop trampling on Gods rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalems fall, evidently ,then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of ...Numbers 14; 34 and ezekiel 4;6 which speaks of ...A day for a year... the seven times would cover 2, 520 years
The 2,520 years began in october 607 BCE when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne . The period ended in october 1914. At that time ...the appointed times of the nations..... ended, and Jesus christ was installed as Gods heavenly king ... psalm 2;1-6 ...Daniel 7;13-14
Just as Jesus predicted, his ...presence .... as heavenly king has been marked by dramatic world developments .... war, famine, earthquakes pestilences. ...matthew 24;3-8 luke 21;11.... such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of Gods heavenly kingdom and the beginning of..... the last days... of this present wicked system of things 2 timothy 3;1-5

 

[may]

Fair enough. I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but where on earth did the date 1914 come from? I'd genuinely be interested to find out where JWs get this from as, frankly, it seems a little bizarre to me.

James

read my post to Danisty about the 1914 date , see what you think.