Baha'ullah and Bihar al-Anwar book

[mojtaba]

Bha'ullah has mentioned in his books some Hadiths(traditions) and has claimed that they are in Bihar al-Anwar[one of the Shi'i books]. He proves himself by this fake Hadiths.

But when wee see the Bihar al-Anwar book which has published before Baha'ullah and is older than him or the books that have published in our time, we can not find those fake Hadiths in it.

Could a Baha'i say me that why Baha'ullah has made fake Hadiths(traditions) in his books and has claimed that they are in Bihar al-Anwar book and then proves himself through them, while they are not in them?

 

[mojtaba]

Some examples:

1.The Baha'i leader Baha'u'llah forged the following tradition (claiming it exists in Bihar) :

“In the “Bihar” it is recorded: In our Qa’im there shall be four signs from four Prophets, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, and Muhammad. The sign from Moses, is fear and expectation; from Jesus, that which was spoken of Him; from Joseph, imprisonment and dissimulation; from Muhammad, the revelation of a Book similar to the Qur’an." (Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 254)

2.the tradition forged by the founder of Baha'ism, in which he claims there is a famous tradition that states "Yaum al-Qiamah" refers the day that the Mahdi appears:

"Have they not heard the well-known tradition: “When the Qa’im riseth, that day is the Day of Resurrection?”" (Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 144.)« آیا روایت مشهور را نشنیده اند که می فرماید: «اذا قامَ القائِمُ قامَتِ القیامَة»؟»
There is no such hadith in the Shia corpus and this is a lie made up by Baha'u'llah.

3.Mufaddal asked Sadiq saying: “What of the sign of His manifestation, O my master?” He made reply: “In the year sixty, His Cause shall be made manifest, and His Name shall be proclaimed." (Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 253–254)
This is a complete lie and no such tradition exists in the Shia corpus.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

It is because of these forgeries that Baha'ism is considered a cult in most Muslim countries. We've seen people trying to prove they are the fulfillment of so and so prophecy, but forging prophecies is a whole new level of lowliness. In fact this practice is a frequent practice among Baha'i academics where they practice a similar tactic, by distorting religious texts when translating them to English with the intention of making false prophecies.

As an example, in the book “An Introduction to Shiʻi Islam” authored by the Baha’i Scholar Moojan Momen, a Shia narration about the year that the Mahdi (who Baha’is believe was their forerunner the Bab) will appear has been mentioned. According to Moojan Momen the narration states that “He will NOT COME in an odd year”. This means that the Mahdi will come in an even year.
Unfortunately, a closer inspection of the original narration exposes a bitter truth. The narration mentions the exact opposite of how it has been cited by Moojan Momen and clearly states the Mahdi will COME in an odd year. This is the original Arabic text of the narration:

" لا يخرج القائم ع إلا في وتر من السنين سنة إحدى أو ثلاث أو خمس أو سبع أو تسع"​

Which says:

“The Mahdi will not come but in an odd year [that ends with a] 1, 3, 5, 7, or 9.”​

Why this forgery? Because the false Mahdi the Baha'is believed in appeared in an even year and Baha'is had to fix this dillema by distorting the translations of Islamic prophecies in this regard.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Some examples:

1.The Baha'i leader Baha'u'llah forged the following tradition (claiming it exists in Bihar) :

3.Mufaddal asked Sadiq saying: “What of the sign of His manifestation, O my master?” He made reply: “In the year sixty, His Cause shall be made manifest, and His Name shall be proclaimed." (Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 253–254)
This is a complete lie and no such tradition exists in the Shia corpus.

I finally found the source regarding the Hadith that Says, the Qaim appears in year 60 in Shia Sources.

It is in this Book:

http://www.narjes-library.com/2013/08/blog-post_8976.html?m=1

في سنه الستين يظهره امره و يعلو ذکره

Page 227

Note that, Bahaullah did not say this Hadith is in Bihar.

The remaing questions were answered in Bahai Dir.

Good luck

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

I finally found the source regarding the Hadith that Says, the Qaim appears in year 60 in Shia Sources.

It is in this Book:

http://www.narjes-library.com/2013/08/blog-post_8976.html?m=1

في سنه الستين يظهره امره و يعلو ذکره

Page 227

Note that, Bahaullah did not say this Hadith is in Bihar.

Congratulations for becoming proficient in the same tactic of forgery that Baha'u'llah used in the Iqan. As you can see no one claimed that the aforementioned tradition is from the book Bihar but you removed the middle part of @mojtaba's post and made it seem like he was claiming that it is from Bihar al-anwar. Your attitude is really saddening.


As for the tradition that you think you have found: These are the original Arabic words that Baha'u'llah has used in the first section that you failed to mention and deliberately ignored:
"فَکيفَ يا مولايَ فی ظُهورِهِ؟ "
That translates to:
"Oh my master How will you be in his appearance" (the current official Arabic translation reads: "What of the sign of His manifestation, O my master" which is a clear distortion."
The statement in the current book that you have provided reads:"یا مولای فکیف بدو ظهوره" "Oh my master, how is the beginning of his appearance?"
As you can see, you have provided a narration that is completely different from Baha'u'llah's statement!

As for the second section that is being discussed: These are Baha'u'llah's words:

فَقال عَلَيه السّلامُ فی سَنَةِ السّتّينِ يَظهَرُ اَمرُه و يعلُو ذکره."

while the statement provided in the book you have provided reads:

قال یا مفضل یظهر فی سنه الستین امره و یعلو ذکره

Again these are two different statements. What is even more interesting is that the aforementioned section of the book is part of a long tradition known as hadith Mufaddal, where it is clearly stated: "From Mufaddal ibn Umar who said, “I asked my Master (Imam) Sadiq is there an appointed time (for the appearance) of the assigned waiting Mahdi that the people know about?” He replied, “God forbid, that He appoint a time for his appearance..." This completely contradicts Baha'u'llah's statement and Baha'u'llah deliberately left this section out of the narration that he had distorted because it would have nulled his flawed argument.

The remaing questions were answered in Bahai Dir.

Good luck

Yeah they were! Really!!! You see you deliberately threw in a bunch of flawed arguments in the Baha'i DIR and since no one can debate in the DIR section, you are triumphantly stating that you have provided adequate responses. There is a Persian proverb that states: "خود گویی و خود خندی، عجب مرد هنر‌مندی" A rough translation would convey this meaning: "You utter one sided arguments, then pat yourself on your back, and you think that you are really smart."

Good luck to you too!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here i have also proved, the year of Manifestation of the Bab:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/shia-muslim-bahai-period-of-muslims.185239/

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Here i have also proved, the year of Manifestation of the Bab:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/shia-muslim-bahai-period-of-muslims.185239/

You proved nothing.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

According to Shia Hadithes and also Bahai Scriptures, God Tests Mankind through the appearence of Qaim, and His Manifestation is suddenly. Recognition of Qaim was a test, through which true believers are separated from the rest. For this reason, the Prophet and Imams never explicitly revealed the year of His Manifestation and His complete Name.
When they were asked when He appears, They wisely replied "we do not determine" , albeit, they did not say, we do not know, or God does not know. In fact, according to many traditions, they alluded to the year of His Manifestation. Among those Hadithes, was the tradition, which the Imam Sadiq alluded to year Sixty, which in Bahai view, it means 1260. In Iran and many countries, they say the year, by the last two digits, instead of the Whole number. Hope this explanation helps.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Bha'ullah has mentioned in his books some Hadiths(traditions) and has claimed that they are in Bihar al-Anwar[one of the Shi'i books]. He proves himself by this fake Hadiths.

But when wee see the Bihar al-Anwar book which has published before Baha'ullah and is older than him or the books that have published in our time, we can not find those fake Hadiths in it.

Could a Baha'i say me that why Baha'ullah has made fake Hadiths(traditions) in his books and has claimed that they are in Bihar al-Anwar book and then proves himself through them, while they are not in them?

This site also, has good points, regarding your questions.

http://negah.org/1217

It is also in this Book, رسالة في العصمة و الرجعة page 239:

قال المفضل يا مولاي فكيف في ظهوره عليه السلام قال يظهر من سنة الستين امره و يعلو ( يعلونخ ) ذكره

http://www.alabrar.info/webview.aspx?newbook=yes&book=alf57

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

According to Shia Hadithes and also Bahai Scriptures, God Tests Mankind through the appearence of Qaim, and His Manifestation is suddenly. Recognition of Qaim was a test, through which true believers are separated from the rest. For this reason, the Prophet and Imams never explicitly revealed the year of His Manifestation and His complete Name.
When they were asked when He appears, They wisely replied "we do not determine" , albeit, they did not say, we do not know, or God does not know. In fact, according to many traditions, they alluded to the year of His Manifestation. Among those Hadithes, was the tradition, which the Imam Sadiq alluded to year Sixty, which in Bahai view, it means 1260. In Iran and many countries, they say the year, by the last two digits, instead of the Whole number. Hope this explanation helps.

According to Shia hadith the Qaim will establish peace and justice on earth once and for all by his own hand and he would rule this world. According to Baha'i scripture ... forget it, Baha'i scripture is a total failure in this regard.

According to whole chapters in the Shia corpus no one knows the time of the appearance of the Qa'im but God and any one who gives a date is a liar and infidel. The same meaning can also be found in the same hadith that Baha'u'llah distorted. In fact it was for this very reason that he deliberately left out the pages of statement from that same tradition that completely show that Bahaism and Babism are fake cults.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

This site also, has good points, regarding your questions.

http://negah.org/1217

It is also in this Book, رسالة في العصمة و الرجعة page 239:

قال المفضل يا مولاي فكيف في ظهوره عليه السلام قال يظهر من سنة الستين امره و يعلو ( يعلونخ ) ذكره

http://www.alabrar.info/webview.aspx?newbook=yes&book=alf57

First link repeats your argument that I responded to in post #5 and second link takes us to a book written by Shaykh Ahmad Ahsa'i who Baha'is consider their forerunner but in reality was a disturbed man who believed in the existence of a city filled with women that impregnate themselves using a Penis tree:

http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=84

 

[InvestigateTruth]

According to Shia hadith the Qaim will establish peace and justice on earth once and for all by his own hand and he would rule this world. According to Baha'i scripture ... forget it, Baha'i scripture is a total failure in this regard.

According to whole chapters in the Shia corpus no one knows the time of the appearance of the Qa'im but God and any one who gives a date is a liar and infidel. The same meaning can also be found in the same hadith that Baha'u'llah distorted. In fact it was for this very reason that he deliberately left out the pages of statement from that same tradition that completely show that Bahaism and Babism are fake cults.

I have proved here, the Shia Clergy misguided their followers.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/shia-qaim-vs-shia-clergy.185049/

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Congratulations for becoming proficient in the same tactic of forgery that Baha'u'llah used in the Iqan. As you can see no one claimed that the aforementioned tradition is from the book Bihar but you removed the middle part of @mojtaba's post and made it seem like he was claiming that it is from Bihar al-anwar. Your attitude is really saddening.

What is the title of thread?

As for the tradition that you think you have found: These are the original Arabic words that Baha'u'llah has used in the first section that you failed to mention and deliberately ignored:
"فَکيفَ يا مولايَ فی ظُهورِهِ؟ "
That translates to:
"Oh my master How will you be in his appearance"

.

Incorrect translation.
Show which part of it in the Arabic says 'will you be'.


.

(the current official Arabic translation reads: "What of the sign of His manifestation, O my master" which is a clear distortion."
The statement in the current book that you have provided reads:"یا مولای فکیف بدو ظهوره" "Oh my master, how is the beginning of his appearance?"
As you can see, you have provided a narration that is completely different from Baha'u'llah's statement!
.

There are different versions of this Hadith. I do not see any significant difference in the meaning. The other version Ahmad Ahsai Narrated is the same

What matters is the answer, that Imam Sadiq says. In Year Sixy He shall appear!
You'd better ask the Mullahs how the Hadith was changed in Bihar, completely removing Year Sixty from the Hadith. Is it not shameful to change the Hadith, which is the word pf Imam Sadiq, giving the year of Manifestation of Qaim? Would a true believer do that?


.

As for the second section that is being discussed: These are Baha'u'llah's words:

فَقال عَلَيه السّلامُ فی سَنَةِ السّتّينِ يَظهَرُ اَمرُه و يعلُو ذکره."

while the statement provided in the book you have provided reads:

قال یا مفضل یظهر فی سنه الستین امره و یعلو ذکره

Again these are two different statements.

.

Are you joking? For people that do not understand Arabic, the only difference is this:


First one is saying:

He, peace be upon him made reply: “In the year sixty, His Cause shall be made manifest, and His Name shall be proclaimed.


Second one is saying:


He made reply: “O Mufazzel, In the year sixty, His Cause shall be made manifest, and His Name shall be proclaimed.


From Your comments, that is how a troll acts.

What is even more interesting is that the aforementioned section of the book is part of a long tradition known as hadith Mufaddal, where it is clearly stated: "From Mufaddal ibn Umar who said, “I asked my Master (Imam) Sadiq is there an appointed time (for the appearance) of the assigned waiting Mahdi that the people know about?” He replied, “God forbid, that He appoint a time for his appearance..." This completely contradicts Baha'u'llah's statement and Baha'u'llah deliberately left this section out of the narration that he had distorted because it would have nulled his flawed argument.

Where is the exact source of this Hadith? Copy the link and Arabic version and translate if you can.

Yeah they were! Really!!! You see you deliberately threw in a bunch of flawed arguments in the Baha'i DIR and since no one can debate in the DIR section, you are triumphantly stating that you have provided adequate responses. There is a Persian proverb that states: "خود گویی و خود خندی، عجب مرد هنر‌مندی" A rough translation would convey this meaning: "You utter one sided arguments, then pat yourself on your back, and you think that you are really smart."

Good luck to you too!

Sounds like a troll.

 

[mojtaba]

I finally found the source regarding the Hadith that Says, the Qaim appears in year 60 in Shia Sources.

It is in this Book:

http://www.narjes-library.com/2013/08/blog-post_8976.html?m=1

في سنه الستين يظهره امره و يعلو ذکره

Page 227

Note that, Bahaullah did not say this Hadith is in Bihar.

The remaing questions were answered in Bahai Dir.

Good luck

1.In the Hadith, Imam Sadiq(pbuh) frequently said that he does not determine any time for the reappearance of Qaim.(فَقَالَ یَا مُفَضَّلُ لَا أُوَقِّتُ لَهُ وَقْتاً وَ لَا یُوَقَّتُ لَهُ, O Mufadhal, I do not determine any time for it, I do not determine any time for it). See Bihar Al-Anwar. So, there could not be any determination of the time of the appearance of Qaim by Imam Sadiq in the Hadith, so please see the next point.
2. So, The Hadith that you brought is cetainly incorretc and its correct vesion is in Bihar Al-Anwar and other Shia books, in which instead of the sentence 'في سنه الستين يظهره امره و يعلو ذکره' is 'يا مفضل يظهر في شبهة ليستبين ، فيعلو ذكره ،ويظهر أمره(See here)'. The correct sentence does not make any proof for you.

Good luck!

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

1.In the Hadith, Imam Sadiq(pbuh) frequently said that he does not determine any time for the reappearance of Qaim.(فَقَالَ یَا مُفَضَّلُ لَا أُوَقِّتُ لَهُ وَقْتاً وَ لَا یُوَقَّتُ لَهُ, O Mufadhal, I do not determine any time for it, I do not determine any time for it). See Bihar Al-Anwar. So, there could not be any determination of the time of the appearance of Qaim by Imam Sadiq in the Hadith, so please see the next point.
2. So, The Hadith that you brought is cetainly incorretc and its correct vesion is in Bihar Al-Anwar and other Shia books, in which instead of the sentence 'في سنه الستين يظهره امره و يعلو ذکره' is 'يا مفضل يظهر في شبهة ليستبين ، فيعلو ذكره ،ويظهر أمره(See here)'. The correct sentence does not make any proof for you.

Good luck!

I already mentioned this a hundred times but the Baha'i dude here simply ignores it and thinks the distorted version that Baha'u'llah mentions is the correct version and the other versions are forgeries. It is truly saddening that out of the very long hadith of Mufaddal they cling to a distorted sentence, yet refuse to pay attention to all those other sections that completely go against everything that happened in Babism and Baha'ism.