Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'is are free because we make a free choice to follow what Baha'u'llah said and what is mandated by their House of Justice at any moment.
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Bahai - What do you think about free-bahais?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not choose that as it was not my decision..
Nobody said that except you.
Because transparency and full truthfulness as opposed to half truths are not a principal of marketing lol
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I'll look it up later, but for now, the way I'm remembering it... Shoghi Effendi left no will. And did it have to be a relative of Baha'u'llah to be qualified to be the guardian? And that is one reason why Mason Remy was not qualified? So, all the relatives, all of them, were declared covenant-breakers, although this grand-daughter of Abdul Baha' says no, and Shoghi Effendi had no children of his own. But it is kind of strange if the guardian had to be a relative. As if being related made them special. But what did it say in Abdul Baha's will? Didn't say that the guardian is to appoint someone to replace him?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That's what this whole thing about the covenant-breakers is all about. Each time a leader died, there was a controversy. Somebody had to get ex-communicated for making a false claim to the leadership.
But for the average Baha'i, I think you're exactly right. They have to obey Baha'u'llah, then Abdul Baha', then Shoghi Effendi, and now the Universal House of Justice. These Free-Baha'is follow the teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdul Baha, but not Shoghi Effendi and the UHJ.
I think being a relative of, or from the Linage of a Messenger of God, is indeed special.
In Iran those that were decended from Muhammad wore green turbans. So for centuries in Persia only the descendants of Mohammed, known as the Sayyids, were allowed to wear green turbans—anyone else would be punished for it.
The Bab was of such Linage born as "Sayyed ʿAlí Muḥammad Shírází"
There is Prophecy about this Linage.
Regards Tony
Makes sense CG. The day of the Oneness of God, the Messengers and of humanity, will not be broken by the night of the division of the Baha'i Faith.
All Faiths in the past did not achieve this. Remember that is the main Bible Prophecy.
One fold, one Shepherd, as day where the wolves in sheep clothing are exposed.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Jul 16, 1054 CE was the Great Schism of Christianity, which started the cascade in centuries to come.
Islam split upon the passing of Muhammad to Sunnis and Shia, Shia being loyal to Ali, who was to be the appointed line of succession. The Bible tells of this division and the result.
Regards Tony
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yeah, in the short-term. But the truth about the half-truths comes out. Then what? We get all these splinter groups of the Baha'i Faith saying things and the main group denying them. How does a person find out what really happened? I'm reading about Sen Mcglinn, Denis MacEoin, and Juan Cole. They all wrote or said things that got them in trouble with Baha'i leadership. Two of them left the Baha'i Faith.
We all get our choices CG. The only ones we really need to be concerned with, are our own choices.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yes, we can choose to ignore things that contradict our beliefs. Or we can look into them and see if they are true or not. With religion, who knows what is true.
Anybody in most any religion can be a good person, but they can all have completely different concepts of who or what God is or even if there is a God. Belief in those concepts becomes important to the believer. Those things become the truth to the believer. But between different people those beliefs can be most anything. They can completely contradict the beliefs of a person in some other religion. And even though each believes theirs is true, they all can't be true.
And, even the Baha'i Faith, that says that all the religions are true and from one God, they don't believe all of the things believed and taught in those other religions. So, what does that mean? That the other religions are partially true and partially false? And, conveniently, the Baha'i Faith defines which parts are true and which are false.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Each person in Baha'i gain their own understanding of the scriptures and live according to their understanding of scriptures, when they speak with other Baha'is they might realize that their own belief is slightly off, and they can correct them self.
Each person will have part of the teaching they understand better, and other parts they have yet understood
And they might even doubt certain aspect of the teach until the understanding of it get more clear.
Being an believer does not make everything clear right away, it take time to gain deeper understanding.
Believing that all religious texts contain truth is not wrong either
Scriptures was given at different times to different people. That does not make them false, it just means they were ment for people at different times.
All I can offer CG, is that all that keeps us from our recognition of our oneness, are only our own perceptions and not from God.
It's not about believing on all the doctrines of all past faiths, it is about reconciliation of what is from God and what may be from our own selves.
An example is the Trinity. This is an interpretation of scripture, one that has caused much pain and separation. Why not look at it another way that results in embracing all God given Faiths?
It is safe to say that it is people's desire for self preservation, that they will be saved, that motivates thoughts on this topic. This has been so indoctrinated, that it prevents people looking at the same verses in a different light.
Yet as a Baha'i it can be seen in a different light, one that is all embracing inclusive of Jesus the Christ. All embraced with no fear of punishment and no hope of reward.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
How typically Shiite! Shows the Iranian influence. Imam. Dynastic. A son or great grandson of a wise person is automatically wise.
That does not guarantee one is automatically wise, albeit it is a great bounty.
Who knows, one day you may have something nice to say about all this, I can live in hope.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
We've debated lots of Christian beliefs before. Some of them are very explicit. Some seem to be implied and took a little interpreting to come up with a doctrine or belief. I think it is very clear that the gospels and the first chapter in Acts say that Jesus came back to life in some sort of body that had flesh and bone but could appear and disappear. How do we get around that? Baha'is could say that the stories weren't literal but figurative. I might say something like the writers made it up. It was just myth and legends. But to those Christians that believe the Bible and the NT are God's word, and take it very literally, I can see why they have the belief in the physical resurrection of Jesus. Is that "self-preservation" or standing up for something they believe is true?
Their truth makes Jesus the one and only way. I think the NT gives plenty of support for those that believe that. But how many of us want to believe that? There must be a loophole. There must be a better way. And the Baha'is offer what they believe to be a better way... Don't take it so literally. Once we do that, we can make any verse in any Holy Book say whatever we want it to say. Jesus the only way? Yes, for that time and place. He rose from the dead? Yes, spiritually. Jesus is coming back? In spirit.
I agree. If we do that. If we take away all the things in the old religions that separate us, it will probably be a better world. But what are Baha'is replacing it with? Their rules and their beliefs. How do we know they are true? I think some of the laws, the moral laws, are too strict and will probably never be followed.... even by leaders in the Faith. This succession of leadership... How do we know it's true? I'm finding reasons to suspect a very conservative and authoritarian Baha'i leadership that doesn't want anyone challenging them. But it's your religion. If you think everything is fine, then great. Like I've said before, I'm just checking it out. I'm not saying they are right or you are wrong. But for "oneness", it means people in the other religions to stop taking their beliefs so literally. And "oneness" in the Baha'i Faith means never go against the authority of the leadership.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi apparently were, but the rest of the sons and daughters were all greedy, power-hungry sleaze balls?
No CG, we are not here to judge them. The God given authority alone can give that judgement, and that remains confidential.
Regards Tony