Bahai scholarship of all scripture

[firedragon]

I learned about the Bahai theology from Bahai's in this very forum. Prior to that my knowledge was superficial at best. Maybe even less. The Bahai's have their own methodology of calling things "scholarship" and the question of this thread is on that particular idea.

Summing things up, the Bahai's believe that all religions practically are based on God and manifestations of God. Major religions that I know of can be spoken of like Christianity where Jesus was a manifestation of God, while Krishna who has varying concepts in Hinduism was a manifestation of God, and the Buddha was a manifestation of God, and fundamentally anyone could be named a manifestation of God. Finally comes the Bab or the door, and Bahaullah who is a manifestation of God, then Abdul Baha the son, and Effendi who is the grandson where whatever divinity or the authority is "inherited".

When exploring the so called "Bahai scholarship" one would immediately note that they do not value Christian scholarship, Buddhist scholarship or Islamic Scholarship though they claim they believe all of those are valid religions, and they are all part of the same pool. Generally scholarship in the Christian bucket is deemed a naturalistic approach where the scripture is taken through a scrutiny of many variations of criticism. It's fantastic. Islamic Scholarship has a very similar approach since time immemorial though most are unaware. Buddhist scholarship is based predominantly on the Tipitaka, Jathaka, and the so called "Dharma Sangayana". I do not have much knowledge in Hinduism so maybe HIndus could collaborate and give me some knowledge.

Bahai scholarship has practically no regard for any of this but their own theology and "scholarship" is in my opinion built around building a platform for their theology. Thus it seems like any kind of scholarship will be dismissed based on their website and their theology. Due to several discussions my opinion is that there is no scholarship at all because no scholarship truly takes any criticism into account. There is no scholarship applied to the Bible or the Quran. Or even the Tipitaka. Things are randomly picked up for convenience and its called "scholarship" based on their foundation mainly quoting Effendi.

I am not speaking of theology and divine belief, just scholarship of scripture.

Christians disagree with Muslims because the Qur'an says "Ma kathaluhoo, wa ma salaboohoo" which means "they did not kill him, nor was he crucified". But the Bahai scholarship is not really scholarship at all, but a theological faith propagation that says "Jesus' body was killed, but not his spirit" while the Quran does not say that. Imposition.

The Bible clearly says he was crucified. And this creates a huge divide between Christians and Muslims. But note, that we are discussing scholarship. Bible scholars deem that Jesus was definitely crucified by the Romans due to sedition, and is a very probable occurrence. The bahai's claim he was crucified but not his spirit or some divine Jesus nature was not. Yet they claim he came already as Bahaullah. Done and dusted.

What do the Christians and the Jews think about their so called "scholarship"?

Thanks for contributing. This is just a foundation.

 

[Harel13]

What do the Christians and the Jews think about their so called "scholarship"?

Like you, most of my knowledge of the Baha'i faith comes from RF. I didn't know this point about their view of Christian scholarship. What is the view of Jewish scholarship?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I learned about the Bahai theology from Bahai's in this very forum. Prior to that my knowledge was superficial at best. Maybe even less. The Bahai's have their own methodology of calling things "scholarship" and the question of this thread is on that particular idea.

Summing things up, the Bahai's believe that all religions practically are based on God and manifestations of God. Major religions that I know of can be spoken of like Christianity where Jesus was a manifestation of God, while Krishna who has varying concepts in Hinduism was a manifestation of God, and the Buddha was a manifestation of God, and fundamentally anyone could be named a manifestation of God. Finally comes the Bab or the door, and Bahaullah who is a manifestation of God, then Abdul Baha the son, and Effendi who is the grandson where whatever divinity or the authority is "inherited".

When exploring the so called "Bahai scholarship" one would immediately note that they do not value Christian scholarship, Buddhist scholarship or Islamic Scholarship though they claim they believe all of those are valid religions, and they are all part of the same pool. Generally scholarship in the Christian bucket is deemed a naturalistic approach where the scripture is taken through a scrutiny of many variations of criticism. It's fantastic. Islamic Scholarship has a very similar approach since time immemorial though most are unaware. Buddhist scholarship is based predominantly on the Tipitaka, Jathaka, and the so called "Dharma Sangayana". I do not have much knowledge in Hinduism so maybe HIndus could collaborate and give me some knowledge.

Bahai scholarship has practically no regard for any of this but their own theology and "scholarship" is in my opinion built around building a platform for their theology. Thus it seems like any kind of scholarship will be dismissed based on their website and their theology. Due to several discussions my opinion is that there is no scholarship at all because no scholarship truly takes any criticism into account. There is no scholarship applied to the Bible or the Quran. Or even the Tipitaka. Things are randomly picked up for convenience and its called "scholarship" based on their foundation mainly quoting Effendi.

I am not speaking of theology and divine belief, just scholarship of scripture.

Christians disagree with Muslims because the Qur'an says "Ma kathaluhoo, wa ma salaboohoo" which means "they did not kill him, nor was he crucified". But the Bahai scholarship is not really scholarship at all, but a theological faith propagation that says "Jesus' body was killed, but not his spirit" while the Quran does not say that. Imposition.

The Bible clearly says he was crucified. And this creates a huge divide between Christians and Muslims. But note, that we are discussing scholarship. Bible scholars deem that Jesus was definitely crucified by the Romans due to sedition, and is a very probable occurrence. The bahai's claim he was crucified but not his spirit or some divine Jesus nature was not. Yet they claim he came already as Bahaullah. Done and dusted.

What do the Christians and the Jews think about their so called "scholarship"?

Thanks for contributing. This is just a foundation.

Thank you happy days.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Like you, most of my knowledge of the Baha'i faith comes from RF. I didn't know this point about their view of Christian scholarship. What is the view of Jewish scholarship?

Basically the Baha'i viewpoint is based on the explanations of the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi.

The Baha'i see the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Messengers of God and they wrote extensively giving explanations as to the interpretations of past scriptures.

Abdul-baha and Shoghi Effend also gave numerous explanations and they gave them under the Covenant of Baha’u’llah, as such they are also seen as God inspired scriptures.

Scholarship is highly praised in the Baha'i Writings. There are guidelines as to what is good scholarship.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

and fundamentally anyone could be named a manifestation of God.

Not correct.

Regards Tony

 

[an anarchist]

What do the Christians and the Jews think about their so called "scholarship"

Well I believe that Baha'is view the Quran as fully authentic and the Bible as mostly authentic. Mostly. They say the true text has been corrupted? With saying that the Bible isn't fully God's word, it allows for the Bible to be cherry picked I think. I'm not an expert on the theology, I explored it for a bit.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Abdul Baha the son, and Effendi who is the grandson where whatever divinity or the authority is "inherited".

Incorrect about method, it was by written Testament. Abdul'baha by Baha'u'llah and Shoghi Effendi by Abdul'baha.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks for contributing. This is just a foundation.

I think basically your argument is about the authenticity of the Baha'i Scriptures.

One aspect of Baha'i Scholarship, when one reviews past scriptures, is based on what God has offered in the Baha'i Official Writings.

If a part of the Bible or Quran has been explained by a God given Message, then how can that be challenged? That is the quandary we all face.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

They say the true text has been corrupted? With saying that the Bible isn't fully God's word, it allows for the Bible to be cherry picked I think. I'm not an expert on the theology, I explored it for a bit.

No we do not offer God's Word was corrupted. It is still all available for us to discuss. The Quran in pure form and the Bible a sure spiritual guide.

The Baha'i Writings offer a different way to see those same scriptures.

Thus it is only interpreted to the extent we have explanations given in the Baha'i Writings. Otherwise it is a personal interpretation.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Like you, most of my knowledge of the Baha'i faith comes from RF. I didn't know this point about their view of Christian scholarship. What is the view of Jewish scholarship?

In my exploration, the Bahai scholarship is purely based on apologetics. Purely from my exploration, they do not have much literature on Jewish scholarship. Anyway, one must note that Jewish scholarship is too huge for one to make simple statements to sum it up. Also you should note that this is based on my simple reading of the Bab and Bahaulla's writing.

The so called Bahai scholarship does not delve into Jewish scholarship. Some might get offended hearing this but their so called scholarship is based on the English translation of the septuagint. But since of late some statements like the perfect tense of Christian impositions of the Tanakh where they say they are prophecies of the Christ Jesus which are in their original books were translated in the future tense, have been changed to the perfect tense as I understand the Tanakh has been written in. Thus, my personal assessment is that they took the KJV for their theology.

Bottomline is, they do not take any aspect of Jewish scholarship of the Tanakh. They have their own scholarship based on the English translation. Yet, I dont mind learning.

 

[firedragon]

I think basically your argument is about the authenticity of the Baha'i Scriptures.

Not at all.

One aspect of Baha'i Scholarship, when one reviews past scriptures, is based on what God has offered in the Baha'i Official Writings.

that's not scholarship. Thats faith on faith propagated by faith.

If a part of the Bible or Quran has been explained by a God given Message, then how can that be challenged?

By scholarship.

 

[Harel13]

In my exploration, the Bahai scholarship is purely based on apologetics. Purely from my exploration, they do not have much literature on Jewish scholarship. Anyway, one must note that Jewish scholarship is too huge for one to make simple statements to sum it up. Also you should note that this is based on my simple reading of the Bab and Bahaulla's writing.

The so called Bahai scholarship does not delve into Jewish scholarship. Some might get offended hearing this but their so called scholarship is based on the English translation of the septuagint. But since of late some statements like the perfect tense of Christian impositions of the Tanakh where they say they are prophecies of the Christ Jesus which are in their original books were translated in the future tense, have been changed to the perfect tense as I understand the Tanakh has been written in. Thus, my personal assessment is that they took the KJV for their theology.

Bottomline is, they do not take any aspect of Jewish scholarship of the Tanakh. They have their own scholarship based on the English translation. Yet, I dont mind learning.

If that's the case - and I'd appreciate hearing input from more of our Baha'i members on whether that is the case - then I don't really see what I as a Jew could say about it all.

 

[danieldemol]

In my exploration, the Bahai scholarship is purely based on apologetics

In my exploration, so is fundamentalist Jewish, Christian and Islamic scholarship, so they are just following in the footsteps of their forefather religions in that sense.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

If that's the case - and I'd appreciate hearing input from more of our Baha'i members on whether that is the case - then I don't really see what I as a Jew could say about it all.

See, Jewish scholarship is huge. Too much for one to easily muster. There are secular scholarship about the Tanakh that maybe easier than that to understand. But Jewish scholarship is too big to sum up easily. I know only one scholar who has at least a sizeable knowledge of Jewish scholarship.

I can vouch to one fact. Not a single Bahai will have a comprehensive knowledge in Jewish scholarship. I don't for sure, so I dont mean that in a derogatory manner.

Let me be more frank with you. You will not find a single Bahai, in this very forum, who has scholarship in their own scripture. Apologies if that sounds offensive, but its true in my anecdotal experience.

 

[firedragon]

In my exploration, so is fundamentalist Jewish, Christian and Islamic scholarship, so they are just following in the footsteps of their forefather religions in that sense.

In my opinion.

Not really. Maybe you are not aware of scholarship.

 

[danieldemol]

Not really. Maybe you are not aware of scholarship.

Or maybe I am and it is indistinguishable from apologetics amongst the fundamentalist religions.
For example consider the so called scholarship (read apolgetics) that goes into trying to prove that Jesus was not crucified amongst Muslims.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

See, Jewish scholarship is huge. Too much for one to easily muster. There are secular scholarship about the Tanakh that maybe easier than that to understand. But Jewish scholarship is too big to sum up easily. I know only one scholar who has at least a sizeable knowledge of Jewish scholarship.

I can vouch to one fact. Not a single Bahai will have a comprehensive knowledge in Jewish scholarship. I don't for sure, so I dont mean that in a derogatory manner.

Let me be more frank with you. You will not find a single Bahai, in this very forum, who has scholarship in their own scripture. Apologies if that sounds offensive, but its true in my anecdotal experience.

It's true that it's large. But that doesn't mean someone can't attain a cursory knowledge in it. But if Baha'is as you say typically don't include it in their studies, then I don't think we as Jews have any say on their studies. Like two lines that never meet.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not at all.

that's not scholarship. Thats faith on faith propagated by faith.

By scholarship.

How did that work with the Jews and Christians scholars in regards to the Quran?

Why does Islam claim to have greater scholars, that cannot make a mistake in recognising there is a new God given Message?

Fair question.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's true that it's large. But that doesn't mean someone can't attain a cursory knowledge in it. But if Baha'is as you say typically don't include it in their studies, then I don't think we as Jews have any say on their studies. Like two lines that never meet.

Personally I see the day we accept One G_d is behind all Faiths, that will be the day that scholarship across all faiths will bloom, it will also be the day that the promise to the Jewish Nation will thrive and they will be ever thankful as their faith is bathed in a never ending light.

Maybe faith will grow as per Isaiah 35:2 "It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God."

May G_d be with us all.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In my exploration, so is fundamentalist Jewish, Christian and Islamic scholarship, so they are just following in the footsteps of their forefather religions in that sense.

In my opinion.

Maybe that is our biggest flaw?

Abdul'baha most likely did not participate in such discourses. Yet looking back, some very knowledgeable scholars did defend the faith in their Writings and were asked to do so by Baha'u'llahor Abdul'baha.

So, Is there any faith that does not have some form of apologetics? I personally had to look up the word, so that may say a lot.

Regards Tony