Baha'i Haircut Law: Why Create a Law if your going to break it youself?

[CG Didymus]

People seem to have forgotten there is an ignore button, and choose to get upset or all defensive instead of just calmly and rationally countering arguments. I'm still glad you're here to present the other side 'from the ground' so to speak. Western media is open to bias. I read Al Jazeera occasionally just to get some perspective. It was nice living in Mauritius where Europe and India were the primary influences, rather than the US, which we in Canada get so much of.

I guess there's a limit to being entitled to one's own opinion. Baha'is are making the claim that their prophet has all the answers and all the religions started by previous messengers no longer have the truth needed for today.

Naturally, people in those other religions are going to try and find flaws in the Baha'i beliefs. Having long hair and multiple wives doesn't help the Baha'i prophet's credibility. But ultimately, we don't have to worry. The Baha'is here have assured us that those laws will only pertain to Baha'is. So non-Baha'is will be able to have long hair and maybe even several wives. But, they should also be free from some of the other Baha'i laws and be able to take drugs and drink alcohol and do all those things that the freedom of Western civilization has come accustomed to.

 

[oldbadger]

I
Didn't know the haircut law was important, but I'm not an expert.

Just to give an idea, if this haircut law was introduced in any Western Nation today it would cause absolute uproar, collapsing our Equality Act 2010 (UK) and many European laws.

It's the reduction of personal freedom and expression..... it's important!

You do seem to be the anti-Baha'i messenger and from a country that persecutes them, so you're quite unlucky in that respect. You also don't seem to care much about the Baha'is replies.

Please could you show us exactly how the scores of thousands of Bahais living in Iran today have been especially persecuted and victimised ? I realise that Iran is an Islamic State and so obviously everybody has to accept it's legislations........ In any event I look forward to your answers about this.

@spirit_of_dawn does appear to answer and respond to all member's posts, true?

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

@spirit_of_dawn does appear to answer and respond to all member's posts, true?

Mostly true. I don't respond when:

a- we start going around in circles
b- when instead of a logical argument I am bashed with a quote from a Baha'i leader stating how Baha'i is the greatest thing that has happened to humanity and those that deny it are so and so.
c- the response I receive is off-topic.

 

[oldbadger]

I guess there's a limit to being entitled to one's own opinion. Baha'is are making the claim that their prophet has all the answers and all the religions started by previous messengers no longer have the truth needed for today.

Naturally, people in those other religions are going to try and find flaws in the Baha'i beliefs. Having long hair and multiple wives doesn't help the Baha'i prophet's credibility. But ultimately, we don't have to worry. The Baha'is here have assured us that those laws will only pertain to Baha'is. So non-Baha'is will be able to have long hair and maybe even several wives. But, they should also be free from some of the other Baha'i laws and be able to take drugs and drink alcohol and do all those things that the freedom of Western civilization has come accustomed to.

But Bahais can, do and have exerted their own prejudices upon outsiders, at least they did when there were any around here.

I remember listening to a Canterbury Bahai ranting on about an electrician who carried out an installation at his home because that tradesman was 'too old' and 'should not be doing that job at that age'. The installation was satisfactory, this assembly member simply judged the tradesman on his age. Now Bahauallah wrote that folks should not retire but work on. Interestingly that particular Bahai retired quite young.

There just isn't full integrity shown in respect of 'The Bahai way' as described by the various Bahai prophets.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

I guess there's a limit to being entitled to one's own opinion. Baha'is are making the claim that their prophet has all the answers and all the religions started by previous messengers no longer have the truth needed for today.

Naturally, people in those other religions are going to try and find flaws in the Baha'i beliefs. Having long hair and multiple wives doesn't help the Baha'i prophet's credibility. But ultimately, we don't have to worry. The Baha'is here have assured us that those laws will only pertain to Baha'is. So non-Baha'is will be able to have long hair and maybe even several wives. But, they should also be free from some of the other Baha'i laws and be able to take drugs and drink alcohol and do all those things that the freedom of Western civilization has come accustomed to.

Don't bet on it. Baha'is aim to eradicate and make extinct all beliefs except for their own and create a world governed by Baha'i law:

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease" (Baha'u'llah)
​

 

[oldbadger]

Mostly true. I don't respond when:

a- we start going around in circles
b- when instead of a logical argument I am bashed with a quote from a Baha'i leader stating how Baha'i is the greatest thing that has happened to humanity and those that deny it are so and so.
c- the response I receive is off-topic.

Fair enough........... just an idea, but you could respond to such posts as described above, simply, with 'Round and round!' or 'personal attack!' or 'Off-topic!'

But then, I don't bother with that advice either....

Some of us members who have challenged Bahai in recent months have noticed how, when cornered, we will be accused of 'misinformation', I was accused of devilry or similar on one thread, but did receive an apology later. And so you can measure how you're doing in any debate by the personal comments and any insults that you might receive.

I'm not a Muslim, have no agenda, but do appreciate your teachings about Bahai immensely. My late wife was a Bahai until her death in 1991, which is what attracted me to Bahai threads on RF, and what affected my feelings about it.

 

[oldbadger]

Don't bet on it. Baha'is aim to eradicate and make extinct all beliefs except for their own and create a world governed by Baha'i law:

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease" (Baha'u'llah)
​

Yeah.......... that has become quite clear in various RF threads.

 

[Vinayaka]

Mostly true. I don't respond when:

a- we start going around in circles
b- when instead of a logical argument I am bashed with a quote from a Baha'i leader stating how Baha'i is the greatest thing that has happened to humanity and those that deny it are so and so.
c- the response I receive is off-topic.

Your words are very similar to what the non Iranian non Muslims that have been countering Baha'i here have been saying. The fact that you are Iranian Muslim has made that in itself the main factor here, and not so much your words. Frankly most people walk away from 'debate' when they encounter the gender equality and/or homosexuality hypocrisy. So nobody really has to look very deeply at all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Bahai writings are denigrating Bahai.
If the OP is telling lies, then report the OP.

I prefer to correct the propaganda, half truths and lies by presenting the facts as I see them.

Of course you will see it differently.

Did Bahauallah choose to travel to akka? Was this for his safety?

The Ottoman authorities arrested Bahá’u’lláh and His companions, most likely due to their becoming aware of Bahá’u’lláh’s claims to have a similar station to the Bab who claimed to be the promised Qa’im. The authorities had little regard for Bahá’u’lláh’s safety. A decree was read to the inhabitants of Akka that Bahá’u’lláh and His companions were the enemies of Islam. The party were deprived of food and water on arrival, most became sick and three died.

I don't think that the last 40 years of Bahauallah's life were in prison....... I'll be looking in to this.

The last 40 years of Bahá’u’lláh’s life were in exile and/or prison. This began in 1852 with His being imprisoned for four months in the Siyal Chal for a crime He did not commit. He was released on condition that He never returned to Persia. It included 9 years within the confines of Akka from 1868 - 77.

Eventually restrictions were eased when the authorities recognised the good character and innocence of the Baha’is.

Your story about passing birds is as mythical as the Ark, I reckon.

Sanitary conditions in Buckingham Palace weren't brilliant back then! Did you know that Prince Albert died of Typhoid?

It was a proverb of the time. The sanitation of the city was notoriously poor, even by nineteenth century standards.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

Really......! The God who made the universe is concerned with how long your hair is? No wonder the masses are of sick religion.

Great post.

But it is like anything else in any religion wherein there are laws to be kept.
An all powerful eternal inconceivable power has nothing to do but obsess on someone's hair?
Man controls man using God as the culprit. It's the same in any religion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Your words are very similar to what the non Iranian non Muslims that have been countering Baha'i here have been saying. The fact that you are Iranian Muslim has made that in itself the main factor here, and not so much your words. Frankly most people walk away from 'debate' when they encounter the gender equality and/or homosexuality hypocrisy. So nobody really has to look very deeply at all.

Off topic but if you want to discuss Baha’i ‘hypocrisy’ in regards gender equality and homosexuality start a new thread but be prepared to discuss Hindu ‘hypocrisy’ about the same issues.

 

[Vinayaka]

Off topic but if you want to discuss Baha’i ‘hypocrisy’ in regards gender equality and homosexuality start a new thread but be prepared to discuss Hindu ‘hypocrisy’ about the same issues.

We did that last year, for a very long time, as I recall. I have no intention of writing the same movie over. I doubt that you do either. There would be no new perspectives. But feel free to attack Hinduism all you want.

 

[Dawnofhope]

We did that last year, for a very long time, as I recall. I have no intention of writing the same movie over. I doubt that you do either. There would be no new perspectives. But feel free to attack Hinduism all you want.

That is true. Why not just accept we have a different perspective rather than labeling Baha’i beliefs as hypocrisy?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Don't bet on it. Baha'is aim to eradicate and make extinct all beliefs except for their own and create a world governed by Baha'i law:

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease" (Baha'u'llah)
​

Another selective quote taken, out of context:

Coercion in matters of faith vitiates the very principles of religion. For commitment can only be born of belief that is freely chosen. The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will lead to truth.

Baha'is issue statement on education and freedom of belief

 

[Vinayaka]

That is true. Why not just accept we have a different perspective rather than labeling Baha’i beliefs as hypocrisy?

It's not the belief I view as a problem, it's the hypocrisy.

Definition of hypocrisy
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel His hypocrisy was finally revealed with the publication of his private letters.

The belief in gender equality is a wonderful belief, and I totally concur with it. But the actions of not applying it to the UHJ show the hypocrisy.

The belief in tolerance towards homosexuality, I totally agree with, but not allowing for the action that would naturally be an outcome of it is just hypocrisy.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It's not the belief I view as a problem, it's the hypocrisy.

Definition of hypocrisy
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel His hypocrisy was finally revealed with the publication of his private letters.

The belief in gender equality is a wonderful belief, and I totally concur with it. But the actions of not applying it to the UHJ show the hypocrisy.

The belief in tolerance towards homosexuality, I totally agree with, but not allowing for the action that would naturally be an outcome of it is just hypocrisy.

Given Hinduism’s (and Islam’s) history of gender inequality and discrimination against homosexuality that has been perpetuated over thousands of years its just another gratuitous and hypocritical swipe at the Baha’i Faith, nothing else.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Another selective quote taken, out of context:

Coercion in matters of faith vitiates the very principles of religion. For commitment can only be born of belief that is freely chosen. The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will lead to truth.

Baha'is issue statement on education and freedom of belief

Thanks for showing another contradiction in Baha'ism. In no other religious scripture have I encountered so much contradictions and statements that go against each other.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Some of us members who have challenged Bahai in recent months have noticed how, when cornered, we will be accused of 'misinformation', I was accused of devilry or similar on one thread, but did receive an apology later. And so you can measure how you're doing in any debate by the personal comments and any insults that you might receive.

That is why I created the Baha'i Debating Practice list. Feel free to add anything to it that I missed:

Baha'i Debating Practices:

1- That quote doesn't exist.
2- If it exists, it's not part of Baha'i writings.
3- If it's part of Baha'i writings it doesn't have an official translation.
4- If it has an official translation, you deliberately cited a thorny quote while ignoring the others.
5- If you weren't citing a thorny quote, you were twisting the statement to build a narrative of falsehood.
6- If you were not building a narrative of falsehood, you were taking it out of context.
7- If it hasn't been taken out of context, it's a statement that refers to the beliefs Islam or Christianity.
8- If it doesn't refer to the beliefs of Islam or Christianity it's a metaphor, allegory, or symbolic.
9- If it's not a metaphor, allegory, or symbolic you have an axe to grind.
10- If you don't have an axe to grind you are a Muslim from Iran and cannot be trusted.
11- If you are not a Muslim from Iran you still refuse to see the light.
12- If you are seeing the light then your beliefs are no better than ours (or whataboutism).
13- If everything else fails, an excuse will be found to somehow divert the discussion to Islam and Iran or blame them for everything.
14- It's all right to say bad things about the Muslim clergy because they refused to believe in Baha'u'llah and stood up against him.
15- Every barbaric act performed by the followers of the Bab was due to Islamic teachings.
16- Don't tell me what Baha'i is. After being a Baha'i for so and so years I would know better.
17- Baha’u’llah can bend his own laws and break them as he pleases because he was sent by God.
18- All unscientific statements of the leaders will be proven to be in conformity with science in the future.
19- Respectfully asks an irrelevant but seemingly relevant question to divert the discussion to something less problematic.
20- Problematic matters are referred to an indefinite time in the future. This takes two forms: a- The wisdom for so and so will become evident in the future. B- This law was intended to be implemented in the future or has been legislated for a future state of society.
21- Other problematic matters are justified by the claim that the UHJ needs to justify this… however the UHJ refuses to clarify the said matter.

 

[Jumi]

Don't bet on it. Baha'is aim to eradicate and make extinct all beliefs except for their own and create a world governed by Baha'i law:

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease" (Baha'u'llah)
​

Eradicate and make extinct sounds like a rather over enthusiastic misinterpretation. I wonder if your scripture could also be quote mined to support some highly extreme views? If you look at Baha'i actions do you have proof that they have implemented this in a sinister way.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah.......... that has become quite clear in various RF threads.

Well that's interesting. That the "diversity of religion should cease". What if it don't cease? Since, if the Baha'is ever become the majority, why wouldn't they impose "unity" of religious thought? Isn't that the kind of thing you've been saying all along?