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Australian Satanism and the Temple of THEM

hollow

One of THEM
Some readers are greatly puzzled with all this. It must be noted, at this juncture, that the writer of our treatise did not discover new ideas or invent new terms; he used what was in his mind and the mind of his circle. It was, however, the weaving of it into a whole, not as a literary exercise, but as a setting forth in the most understandable terms with which they were acquainted of the "things seen," that was their main interest. Those who had the "second sight'' would understand and appreciate their labors, those who had not would never understand, no matter what terms or what language was used.

[24] And Long has written as much, citing his development of what already existed into a workable system from the fragments of the Tradition inherited.

In this section of the Pymander, our treatise is endeavoring precisely to give an insight into the state of things beyond Fate. The burden of its teaching is that all earthly duality and oppositions are really illusory; man can transcend these limitations and come into the freedom of the Sons of God. Even the most terrible and fundamental oppositions are not really so, but all are Self-limitations of God's Will. And man is Son of God coequal with Him.

[25] The peaceable understanding of force that makes all form quiet.

The First Men
Our treatise goes on to describe the first appearance of man on earth, which it regards as a great mystery never before revealed ("the mystery kept hid until this day"). This I take to mean that it had hitherto never been written about but had been kept as a great secret. This secret was the doctrine that the first men, of which there were seven types, were hermaphrodites, and not only so, but lived in the air; their frames were of fire and spirit, and not of the earth-water elements. The Celestial Man, or type of humanity, was gradually differentiating himself from his proper nature of Light and Life, and taking on bodies of fire and air, was changing into mind (Lightfire) and soul (Life-spirit).
This presumably lasted for long periods of time, the lower animal forms gradually evolving to greater complexity as Nature strove to copy the "Form" of Man, and Man devolving gradually until there was a union of Mind and matter, and the human subtle form could find vehicles among the highest animal shapes. The first incarnate men appear to have been at first also hermaphrodite; and it must have been a time when everything was in a far greater state of flux than things are now.

[26] Logically – though not offered often – that first humans were hermaphroditic solves a great many problems – one being given the helplessness of infants how did the first baby survive long enough to become a human? And wherefore its parents – can be answered if there were but one parent. But this is not talking about the physical evolution of man it is talking about the spiritual evolution of man. Castenada and one of THEM speak of the focal point of awareness, and one of them mapped the fpoa onto the Tree of Wyrd's spheres – each chakra/focal point/sphere is one of the seven types of hermaphrodite, or was – that is, balanced.

To Increase and Multiply
This period of pre-sexual or bisexual development having come to an end, the separation of the sexes took place. The commandment is given by the Word: "Increase in increasing and multiply in multitude." It is true that this is reminiscent of the oft-repeated formula in Genesis, but it is only slightly reminiscent. The main injunction is similar, but the rest of the Logos being quite different from anything found in Genesis. As nothing else in the whole treatise can be referred to direct Hebrew influence, we must conclude that the formula was, so to speak, "in the air," and has so crept into our treatise.
This increasing and multiplying, the perpetual coupling of bodies and the birth of new ones, is effected by Fate, or the Harmony of the Formative Spheres, the Engine of Birth, set under Forethought or Providence. This Pronoia can be none else than Nature herself as the Wisdom or Knowledge of God -- in other words, His Will.

[27] Here, Force, divorces into Forces, and then further into Form, and finally Forms.

Love as the Will of God
The motive power of all this is Love. If this Love manifests itself as Desire for things of matter, the Lover stays in Darkness wandering; if it becomes the Will to know Light, the Lover becomes the Knower of himself, and so eventually at-one with Good. But why should love of body merit Death -- that is to say, make man mortal? The disciple attempts an explanation from what he has seen. Although his answer is approved, the meaning is by no means clear.
The physical body, or body in the sense-world, is composed of the Moist Nature, which in a subsequent phase remains as Water-Earth, and in a still subsequent phase divides itself into the elements of physical earth, water, and air. The dissolution of the previous combination of these elements is effected by Death -- that is, Darkness, the Drainer of the Water, the Typhonean Power. Water must thus here symbolize the Osirian Power of fructification and holding together. The Moist Nature seems to be differentiated from the Darkness by the energizing of Light in its most primitive brooding. But seeing that the Light is also Life, the Darkness, which is posited as the ultimate opposite, must be Death.

[28] This passage relates the physis of Forms dealt with in pMYRIAD: there were prior to increase and multiplication no opposites – no tension that can only be bastardized when effected as form – as force, there is no mistake, no interpretation. Life, through form, is now Death. Life as force was one with Death. Form – brings with it, time, an (artificial) extension (increase) between force and thus space through expansion (multiply) – now Life and Death are two.

The Way of Deathlessness
The Way of Deathlessness is then considered. The disciple repeats his lesson, and the Master commends him; the Way Up is the path of self-knowledge. Still the disciple cannot believe that this is for him; he cannot understand that the One Mind is in him, or rather is himself, in so much as Mind as Teacher seems to be outside him. The semantic play is on Mind and mind; the one gives the certitude of Immortality, the other is still bound by the illusion of Death. The disciple has not this certitude; the One Mind, then, is not his.
The Master then further explains the mystery. Gnosis must be preceded by moral purification; there must be a turning-away before the re-turn can be accomplished. The whole nature must be changed. That is the alchemy of the cosmos. Every tortuous effort that the little man seems to make of his own striving is really the energizing of the Great Man.
Those, however, who yield themselves to lower desires, drive the One Mind away, find that their appetites are only the more strengthened by the mind in them. The original text of this paragraph is very corrupt, so that the exact sense of the original is not recoverable; and this makes it all the more difficult to understand what is meant by the Avenging Daimon, the Counterpart of the Mind.

[29] Far too much is said here to comment on briefly – yet perhaps this is the most important of all the commentary, and perhaps, because so, should be passed over in silence.

The Ascent of the Soul
Before long, the subject of instruction becomes the Way Above, or ascent of the soul out of the body at death. The physical body is left to the work of change and dissolution. The life of integration and conservation ceases, and the life of disintegration begins. The form thus vanishes, apparently from the man's consciousness; that is to say, presumably, he is no longer clothed in the form of his physical body but is apparently in some other vehicle. The particular fixed form, or "way of life," or "habit," he wore on earth being handed over to the Daimon deprived of all its energy, so that apparently it becomes an empty shell.
The senses that had previously been united by the mind become separate. That is, instead of a whole they become parts; they return to the natural animal state of sensation, and the animal part of man, or his vehicle of sexual passion and desire, begins in its turn to disintegrate, the mind or reason (logos) being gradually separated from it. Or rather, its true nature begins showing forth in the man, as he gradually strips off the irrational tendencies of the energies. Those irrational tendencies have their sources in Fate (the Harmony of the Spheres) It is in these seven subordinate spheres or zones where he leaves his inharmonious propensities, deprived of their energy. For Fate (the Harmony of the Spheres machine) is only evil apparently; it is really the Engine of Justice and Necessity to readjust the foolish choices of the soul. That is, it exists to purify the soul's irrational desires, or those propensities in it that are not under the sway of the right reason of the One Mind.
 

hollow

One of THEM
[30] What many understand of the Spheres of the Tree of Wyrd is that to explore them, and extract the secrets within, is to Master them – and mistakenly, also infer that such mastery implies a gain. Wherein it is in fact the opposite – for if we were to gain more forms – we should never understand the force – layering it hopelessly with more 'understanding', 'reason', 'form'. Rather we leave the detritus behind and strip of the cracked outer shell of the egg – drain the yolk – and are enabled an ease of passage through such energies by intuitive grasp of the Force not unclumsily denoted by the 'sphere'.
The entire process is explicated in great detail here: in the passage regarding the “eighth” sphere:


The Eighth Sphere

The soul of the initiated strips itself naked of the "garment of shame," the selfish energizings, and stands "clothed in its own power." This refers probably to the stripping off of the dress of selfhood, the garments woven by its vices, and the putting on of the "wedding garment" of its virtues. This state of existence is called the Eighth, a state of comparative sameness that transcends the zones of "difference." It is the Ogdoad of the Gnostics, the City of Jerusalem Above, the plane of the Higher Ego in its own form, the natural state of "those-that-are."
In another sense, it may perhaps mean that man, after passing through the phases of the lower mind, now enters within into the region of the pure One Mind, the Higher Ego, and there is united (at-oned) with all the experiences of his past lives that are worthy of immortality, his virtuous energizings -- the "those-that-are" that perhaps constitute the "crown of mighty lives" sung of by the Pythian Oracle when celebrating the death of Plotinus.
In this state the man, who has freed himself from the necessity of reincarnation, hears the Song of the Powers above the Ogdoad -- that is to say, in Gnostic terms, the Hymn of the Eons of the Pleroma, the Music of the Spheres. Such a man would have reached the consummation of his earthly pilgrimage and be ready to pass on into the Christ-state, or, at any rate, the state of super-man. He would be the victor who had won the right of investiture with the Robe of Glory, and the dignity of the crowning with the Kingship of the Heavens. This final initiation is most: beautifully set forth in the opening pages of the Pistis Sophia, and especially in the "Song of the Powers," beginning with the words: "Come unto us, for we are thy fellow-members. We are all one with thee."
The consummation of the mystery is that the alter-egos of the individual ego, or the sum total of purified personalities that in that state constitute its membership (or vehicles of their own selves) surrender themselves to a fullness of union or a transcendency of separation, in which they become the powers or energies of a New Man, the true Son of Man. They pass into a state where they each blend with all, and yet lose nothing of themselves, but rather find in this new union the consummation of all their powers. In this state of Sonship of the Divine, they are no longer limited by bodies, nor even by partial souls or individual minds; but, becoming Powers, they are not only in God, but one with the Divine Will. In fact, in the final consummation, they are God Himself.
Of such a nature was the Shepherd Hermes; he, too, was the Christ of God, the Son of the Father, who could take all forms to carry out the Divine Will. When the form -- even though that form might for the disciple take on the appearance of the cosmos itself, as he conceived it -- had served its purpose, the Shepherd once more "mingled with the Powers."

[31] Far be it for me to think the commentary repeats itself unnecessarily. It might be worth mentioning that those 'entities' that do appear, that we know as THEM, described in the Black Keys of Satan and Rain magick: A Visitation from THEM among others are of two broad types – the utterly inhuman, and the sense that some were once human – perhaps sorcerers who achieve the Robe of Glory, or Immortality and slipped through from Death into these new guises – no mistake being made though, these are not eighty year old souls, they are Very old – immeasurably old. We know this only from the feeling they impart. One being chilling horror – the other the gravitas of being truly ancient.

I am short of time to continue the last three passages of the first link: I have the inaugural of the ASOV to attend and will not have access to give the necessary (possibly lengthy) replies but will be back in a week to finish the project.

ISS/h

to be continued...
 

hollow

One of THEM
ps - I am entirely aware of here translating a translation of a translation - but will get to an english translation and that of Myatt's - wherein to comment on both - in due course.
 

jeff77

Member
Some very brief, opening comments and allusions/parallels drawn between the pymander tractate and the o9a. Posted in parts because of the 10k word limit...
Your text is so convoluted and constantly flips from Mead's interpretation and commentary to your interpolations and comments - without making it clear what comments are from what person - that your text almost unreadable.

It would be much better if you gave Mead's translation and commentary exactly word for word in separate paragraphs with quotation marks and indented and sourced to the pages of his text, followed by separate paragraphs giving your comments and interpolations.

Ditto when you quote from Myatt's translation and commentary.
 

kerriscott

Member
Some very brief, opening comments and allusions/parallels drawn between the pymander tractate and the o9a.
Thank you, most interesting, and I am in process of formulating a reply, although given that I am now taking my 'annual leave' it may be a few days or longer before my reply is ready to be posted here.
 

kerriscott

Member
Herewith the first part of some preliminary comments of mine. As you will see, I agree with some of your comments, while disagreeing (or slightly disagreeing) with other comments of yours.

Note that: (1) I have used Mead's book rather than the extracts you give because the book places Mead's comments in relation to the Greek text. Mead's book is available to read online - at https://archive.org/details/afx0734.0002.001.umich.edu - and his commentary begins on p.20. (2) I have used 'Khk' to designate your comments, and KS to designate mine. (3) My references to 'Myatt' refer to David Myatt's translation of and commentary on the Pymander text: Poemandres: A Translation and Commentary, ISBN 978-1495470684

1. Mead - "Once a man had come into touch with the Great Synthesis, there rushed into his mind innumerable passages of scripture, scraps of myths, fragments of cosmogenesis, facts, and symbols of all kinds that fitted naturally. These were not any special writer's monopoly, there was no copyright in them, and they were all utterances of the same Logos, the Great Instructor of humanity [...] Thus the literature that was produced in the Corpus Hermeticum was anonymous or pseudographic". p.22

Khk - "The exoteric and esoteric contrivances of Anton Long – that broad personification of anonymity – the deliverer of messages without attribution."

KS - The 'thus' in the quotation from Mead is important, because his prior (and mostly theosophical) assumptions were that the author(s) of the Corpus Hermeticum were "anonymous or pseudo-graphic" because (or so Mead assumed) there was for them a particular type of 'vision' which was (i) apocalyptic, and (ii) of certain 'inner mysteries', and (iii) was "incapable" of being properly described by words, and (iv) this 'vision' by its very nature caused the mind of the writer to be filled with "innumerable passages of scripture, scraps of myths, fragments of cosmogenesis, logoi and logia, and symbols of all kinds".

In my view, these assumptions - be they theosophical or otherwise - are unwarranted. As Myatt - in my view correctly - wrote:

"[The Pymander text] represents a personal weltanschauung germane to its time. That is, that rather than being representative of some axiomatical pre-existing philosophy or of some religious school of thought, it reproduces the insight and the understanding of one person regarding particular metaphysical matters; and an insight and an understanding no doubt somewhat redolent of, and influenced by, and sometimes perhaps paraphrasing, some such philosophies and/or some such schools of thought."​

Thus: (i) the O9A - as created and expounded by Anton Long over a period of many years - represents another such "personal weltanschauung germane to its time," and (ii) which occult weltanschauung is not only "the insight and the understanding of one person" but also the result of practical experience/pathei-mathos, and (iii) an occult praxis - the seven fold way - forms an important part of that weltanschauung, and (iv) it is neither anonymous nor pseudographic since "we" all know, or presume to know, who Anton Long is, with the life and times of 'Anton Long' being well-documented in reliable mainstream sources, and (v) it not confined to one or two specific written texts.

Hence I'm basically here disagreeing with Khk's comments, because the O9A weltanschauung has many elements the Pymander text/the Corpus texts does/do not have, such as a very practical praxis, is not anonymous, and was not primarily the result of a particular type of vision but rather was the result of direct practical experience both esoteric and exoteric.

2. Mead - "There was first of all a nucleus of personal vision and direct illumination, then a grouping of similar matter from various sources into a whole for didactic purposes. Nor was there any idea among these mystics and scripture-writers that the form once issued should become forever stereotyped as infallible; there were many recensions and additions and interpolations. It was left to those without the sense of illumination to stereotype the forms and claim for them the infallacy of verbal dictation by the Deity. Those who wrote the apocalypses from personal knowledge of vision could not make such claim for their scriptures, for they knew how they were written and the nature of their hearing and sight at the time they were experienced."

Khk - "Correctly stated, perhaps for the first time – the raison d'etre for the Order of Nine Angles."

KS - Given my comments above, it should be obvious that I basically disagree with Khk's comment: for (i) the O9A primarily documents and represents, at least in terms of praxises, AL's practical and varied life, his own particular occult quest, and (ii) the nucleus is not a "personal vision" but pathei-mathos, and (iii) the 'theory of the acausal' which forms an integral part of O9A mysticism is more a rational explanation for 'the supernatural' than a mystical 'vision'.

However, on one point we can agree here, re the O9A: "There [will be] many recensions and additions and interpolations. It was left to those without [practical experience of the sinisterly-numinous] to stereotype the forms and claim for them the infallacy of verbal dictation by [whatever]."

3. Mead - "The first part of the question he holds in his mind is: How came this cosmos into being?"

Khk - "David's bifurcation of the acausal/causal."

KS - I agree with Khk's comment, except that the remainder of Mead's comments which Khk quotes are not relevant to that bifurcation.

4. Mead - "But he has craved for Gnosis, not joy and light, but Wisdom, the understanding and reconciliation of the great Opposites [...]"

Khk - "Being the Sinister. The necessity of dark deeds and no limit to them to Understand, to Know. Parallels with Vamachara. In simplistic terms, there is no light, without shadow. The darker the shadow, the more brilliant the light – and the necessity of being amoral – is to devote oneself to the furthest possible points of dark and light. It is not an 'opposite' to morality – it is not a badness for the sake of being bad – it is heurisy that must take the form (to the observer) as heresy. Their judgements – irrelevant. The 'contradiction' of Myatt's deeds is an uninitiated perception – the forms that control, that bind, that restrict one from ineffable union with the Numen – irrelevant. One either wants and is willing to Know – at ANY cost, act, risk, path(s) – or one is not. Myatt was willing. This is why, the o9a is not and never was Satanic – merely made visible as such to encourage the leap by others into the hermetic journey [...]"

KS - I agree with Khk's comments, although I would add that all this is what distinguishes the O9A from other modern occult groups and individuals, be they described as satanic, LHP, or whatever.

5. Mead - "His one desire, his only will, is now to "learn the things that are, and comprehend their nature and know God." He craves for Gnosis -- Gnosis of the Cosmos and its mysteries, Gnosis of Nature or the Great Mother, and, finally, Gnosis of God, the Father of the worlds. This is the one question he "holds in his mind." His whole being is concentrated into this question, this one point of interrogation."

Khk - "Pathei Mathos and the goal of the Immortal."

KS - I agree with Khk's comments, although as Myatt makes clear Mead's use of the term 'God' (capital G) as a translation of the Hellenic theos rather distorts the pagan, the occult, meaning of the Pymander text.

6. Mead - "It wails and groans -- that is to say, its motion is as yet unharmonized. In the terminology of the Sophia-mythus, it is the inchoate birth from the Sophia Above, in the Fullness, brought forth by herself alone without her syzygy (or consort). On account of its imperfection, she wails and groans to the Father of All and His Perfections, that her Perfection may be sent to fashion her child, who is herself in manifestation, into a world of order, and eventually into Perfection in its turn. The Primal Undifferentiated or Chaotic Sound, from the Darkness of its first state, gradually manifests itself under the brooding power of the Boundless Light, into less confused thunderings and murmurings, and finally reaches a stage symbolized by the "Cry," which is a Voice of Fire. This is passionate Fire, not distilled Light, and it expresses a need and want, longing for union with the Articulate Power or Cosmic Word."

Khk - "One might associate the cry with the naming, the thought-form Order of the Nine Angles."

KS -
(i) Mead is mistakenly interpreting the Pymander text in a Christian (or pseudo-Christian, theosophical) way; or - to use Myatt's terminology - is indulging in retrospective re-interpretation, especially in relation to the Greek term phaos (which Mead renders as the Christian concept of Light).
(ii) Mead's "Cry in the Darkness" (which he also calls the Fire of Darkness, qv. p.27 of Mead's text) is described by Myatt as simply "some aphonous noise as if phaos was calling out." Also, Myatt is his commentary mentions he follows the actual reading of the Greek manuscripts, a reading which others have emended, from φωτὸς to πυρός - fire.)
(iii) Thus, since the Greek MSS don't mention 'fire', and there is no 'cry in the darkness' (only an aphonous noise), there is no "Voice of Fire" and hence Khk's comment, quoted above, is wrong.
 

kerriscott

Member
Part Two

7. Mead - "The three most primal stages thus seem to be symbolized by Fire, the Watery Substance, and Darkness [...] The Light was the Child of the supreme Trinity - the First Man, the Second Man, and the Holy Spirit or First Woman. This Light is what the Jewish and Christian overworking of the original tradition called the Cosmic Christ. Thus the Fire of Desire, or the Cry in the Darkness."

Khk - "This touches on some deeply esoteric themes and it is very difficult to be sure they have been correctly identified – but the basic parallel with the seven fold way is thesis – antithesis – synthesis [...]

KS -
(i) The "deeply esoteric themes" are, as Myatt makes clear, essentially pagan not Christian.
(ii) Contrary to the impression Khk's comment may give, the seven fold way is only thesis-antithesis-synthesis (in terms of praxis and thus pathei-mathos) for the first four stages; that is, until The Abyss.

8. Mead - "First Emanation: The Descent of the Logos. Upon this Cry for Light, into the Heart of the Dark-Moist-Fiery nature is injected a Holy Word, the Seed of the future Cosmos [...]"

Khk - "I believe this word was Chaos - and what appears to have happened is that many have understood this statement by early o9a to be a moral platitude that is calling for evil, for destruction, for anarchy. But this is too simplistic. Chaos, or Xaos is not this platitude, that the o9a refer to – but rather the 'free exploration of the numen' and this can involve both beatific darkness as well as sublime light – since when the o9a arrived on earth and began to assess the landscape, the 'sublime light' had already been taken to extremes by various generations of occultists, new-agers, hippies – the world was unbalanced – and required a return to xaos – not evil, not even a moralism, if we think about it – but all that moralism 'might' entail and more as part of the process. Xaos – through the o9a, has returned perhaps not a balance, yet, but evokes a searching for balance that Myatt desperately wished to convey early – gradually less frantically as time went by, resulting in his numinous way writings."

KS -
(i) Here we are, at last, at the crux of (a) the difference between the interpretations of Mead (et al) and Myatt regarding the Pymander text, and (b) the raison d'etre of the Order of Nine Angles.

What Mead translates as 'Holy Word' (with obvious intimations of Christian theology), Myatt translations as 'numinous logos', with Myatt in his commentary adding the important proviso that:

"Correctly understood, numinous is the unity beyond our perception of its two apparent aspects; aspects expressed by the Greek usage of ἅγιος which could be understood in a good (light) way as 'sacred', revered, of astonishing beauty; and in a bad (dark) way as redolent of the gods/wyrd/the fates/morai in the sense of the retributive or (more often) their balancing power/powers and thus giving rise to mortal 'awe' since such a restoration of the natural balance often involved or required the death (and sometimes the 'sacrifice') of mortals. It is the numinous - in its apparent duality, and as a manifestation of a restoration of the natural, divine, balance - which is evident in much of Greek tragedy, from the Agamemnon of Aeschylus (and the Orestia in general) to the Antigone and the Oedipus Tyrannus of Sophocles."​

Furthermore, Myatt also quotes Rilke and gives his own beautiful translation (which he explains in his commentary) after writing that "the two apparent aspects of the numinous are wonderfully expressed by Rilke":

Wer, wenn ich schrie, hörte mich denn aus der Engel
Ordnungen? und gesetzt selbst, es nähme
einer mich plötzlich ans Herz: ich verginge von seinem
stärkeren Dasein. Denn das Schöne ist nichts
als des Schrecklichen Anfang, den wir noch grade ertragen,
und wir bewundern es so, weil es gelassen verschmäht,
uns zu zerstören. Ein jeder Engel ist schrecklich.

Who, were I to sigh aloud, of those angelic beings might hear me?
And even if one of them deigned to take me to his heart I would dissolve
Into his very existence.
For beauty is nothing if not the genesis of that numen
Which we can only just survive
And which we so admire because it can so calmly disdain to betake us.
Every angel is numinous​

(ii) Furthermore, as Myatt explains in his commentary and as his translation makes clear, this 'numinous logos' - and indeed, any logos - is a new perceiveration; a new way of apprehending beings and Being (the cosmos), and importantly that "perceiveration [is] your theos":

"I am, he said, that phaos; perceiveration, your theos, and prior to the flowing physis brought forth from darkness. And the phaomal logos, from perceiveration, is the child of theos [...] whose logos brought forth another perceiveration."​

(iii) Essentially, the Order of Nine Angles - that is, AL/DM - has, via its/his unique logos, brought forth a new perceiveration: of the sinisterly-numinous. That is, of balancing the previous 'numinous logos' (with its inherent duality) - and which became manifest in causal forms such as gnosticism and Christianity - with something 'sinister' (with its own inherent duality, and causal forms) to thus enable a return to the Unity beyond all causal forms, with the important understanding that (a) the ground, foundation, basis, of this new logos is pathei-mathos (that is, derived from direct personal experience), and (b) the unique understanding thus attained via such pathei-mathos is theos.

(iv) Thus while Khk's comments do hint as this 'truth' re the O9A (kudos to him), they do not, in my opinion, clearly or adequately describe it.
 
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kerriscott

Member
Part Three

9. Mead - "The Revelation of the Pleroma - At this point in the treatise, the sequence of the narrative is broken by a second vision and is only resumed later. The breaking of the main narrative may be regarded as a necessary digression rather than as an interpolation of foreign material [...] More had to be seen by the disciple before he was in a position to understand what he had so far seen [...] He must now unite with the Light, his previous seeing being that of its reflection on his own mind. Not that this logos and Light (or Mind) are separate [...]"

Khk - "To this end, Myatt undertook his Muslim role. And from it the Synthesis of the Numinous Way."

RS -
(i) Mead's interpretation is supposition: for Myatt's translation and commentary reveals there is neither a "broken vision" nor a "second vision".

(ii) Myatt's translation of part of the passage that Meads' comments relate to is:

"I am, he said, that phaos; perceiveration, your theos, and prior to the flowing physis brought forth from darkness. [And] the phaomal logos, from perceiveration, is the child of theos.

So I said for him to continue.

Then know that within you - who hears and sees - is logos kyrios, although perceiveration is theos the father. They are not separated, one from the other, because their union is Life.

Thank you, I said.

Then discover phaos and become familiar with it.​

Which - qv. my comments regarding my #9 in part two - refer to what a new perceiveration means and implies. For AL/DM (and thus the O9A) this peceiveration is the new logos evident in pathei-mathos and presenced daily (in the life of the individual) by the code of kindred honor. So presenced because the code expresses the perceiveration in terms of how we perceive ourselves in relation to 'the sinisterly-numinous'; that is, in terms of our relationship to beings and Being, for living (and if necessary dying) by that code is one way to immortality, the goal of not only the practical decades-long seven fold way but of O9A daily mysticism in general sans the particular praxis that is the seven fold way, for the O9A has three praxises. Hence, of course, the way of the drecc/niner.

For one of the things that makes the O9A unique - which presences the O9A logos - is "their ontology of causal and acausal together with the axiom of an acausal existence beyond mortal death, and which immortal existence can be attained by an individual living, and if necessary dying, by the O9A logos of kindred honour," and which living (and dying) - sans a particular esoteric praxis - is mentioned in several overlooked O9A texts, including Warriors of The Dark Way.

Thus, it is this perceiveration and code - a certain way of living which may end in an 'honorable death' - which are the raison d'etre of what Khk (and others) refer to as DM's 'Muslim role', from whence arose more pathei-mathos and thus 'the numinous way' and thence - via The Abyss - a refinement of even that.

(iii) Therefore, Khk's comment regarding Myatt's Muslim role and "numinous way" are rather too simplistic, especially as the early 'numinous way' writings are (in terms of the seven fold way) relevant to, and related to, the preparation for The Abyss, while the later (much amended and/or quite different) ones - as manifest in Myatt's recent philosophy of pathei-mathos - are relevant to, and related to, beyond The Abyss and to the discovery of Lapis Philosophicus, as the following text outlines - http://regardingdavidmyatt.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/myatt-mage-o9a-v2.pdf

10. Mead - "Hitherto the Light had been one for him a sameness that his highest vision could not pierce, the Veil of Light that shut the beauties, perfections and greatnesses of the Intelligible from the eyes of his mind. To pierce this veil, a still more expanded power of sight had to be given him by the Master. The little word or lightspark within him is intensified by the Great Word of the Master, this Word being an Intelligible Utterance of the One Mind, an intensification of being."

Khk - "The Exeatia of Living".

KS -
(i) It's interesting - and important to an understanding of the text - to compare the translations of Mead and Myatt of the Greek text which the above comment by Mead refers to.

Mead:
"And speaking thus He gazed for long into my eyes, so that I trembled at the look of Him. But when He raised His head, I see in Mind the Light, [but] now in Powers no man could number, and Cosmos grown beyond all bounds, and that the Fire was compassed round about by a most mighty Power, and [now] subdued had come unto a stand. And when I saw these things I understood by reason of Man-Shepherd's Word.

But as I was in great astonishment, He saith to me again: Thou didst behold in Mind the Archetypal Form whose being is before beginning without end. Thus spake to me Man-Shepherd. And I say: Whence then have Nature's elements their being? To this He answer gives: From Will of God."​

Myatt:
"So saying, he stared at me for so long a duration that I shivered because of the way he looked. But, as he tilted his head back, I, observing, discovered the phaos of unmeasurable forces and an undefinable cosmic order coming-into-being. While the fire, embraced by a strong force, was subdued and kept in stasis.

Such I observed and discovered because of those words of Pœmandres. But, since I was vexed, he spoke to me again. From your seeing, an awareness of the quidditas of semblance; of the primal before the origin without an end.

This was what Pœmandres said to me, then.

So I asked from what place, then, the parsements of physis?

To which he answered, from the deliberations of theos."​

(ii) What is apparent from both translations - and especially from Myatt's - is the mystical obscurity of the original text, which thus requires (esoteric) interpretation. Myatt offers no interpretation beyond remarking: (a) what his striking phrase "quidditas of semblance" refers to, and (b) that part of the passage deals with
"various shades of ἀρχή [...] ἀρχή as the origin - 'the beginning' - of beings and thus of their εἶδος (the ἀρχέτυπον), of their semblance, their type; and ἀρχή - the primal before (προάρχον) that beginning, of beings - as that origin (that beginning) which has no end, no known limits, ἀπεράντου."​

(iii) Thus, in my view, Khk's comment is rather speculative.
 

kerriscott

Member
Part Four - Conclusions

Given (i) this is a general LHP internet forum, and given (ii) the relative obscurity of the subject matter, and relatively obscure even to many if not most students of modern esotericism, and given (iii) the fact that the comments posted so far, and extensive as they are, only concern less than a third of the mystical text under discussion, I have made my own comments as brief as possible and restricted them to only certain passages quoted by Khk.

A complete esoteric commentary on the entire Pymander text in relation to AL/O9A and with reference to both Mead's and Myatt's commentary would make for a quite lengthy book, and be so obscure as to be of interest (at least currently) to only a very small number of individuals.

What has been presented so far, by both Khk and myself, should however suffice to interest those very small number of individuals, and perhaps provide them with some new esoteric insights into the O9A, and possibly - hopefully - inspire one or two to undertake their own detailed research and arrive at their own conclusions. Furthermore, I trust that my contribution - such as it is - will interest Khk himself, possibly provide him with some 'food for thought' in respect of the O9A/AL, and possibly even inspire him (or someone else) to consider writing such a book-length esoteric commentary.

All that having been said, I will limit any possible future comments of mine here to a bare minimum and to such points as I feel may deserve being commented on.
 

hollow

One of THEM
I'm back. Thank you Kerry for your comments in reply to my own, may this dialectic inspire food for thought, teaching and learning for all including some fresh conversations on these important matters of trad sat and the occult - I doubt my ability to write an entire book, but I will continue as and when I can to will review directly Mead's translations and that of Myatt's and deliver my own understanding - brief or obscure as it may be - from my own intuitions and experiences from the elucidations of my theos, as it may be.

I would add: that there is one thing that simply cannot be denied: for all the irrelevant butting of heads in the external clash of forms, beyond all the mystery, games, intrigue and doubt, surpassing the unfolding of personal physis and its landscape of shapes across the last decade spanning various individuals manifesting various forms (driven by forces) - and it is that thing I have always believed: and that is that the O9A has undeniably changed things forever.
 
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AnnaCzereda

Active Member
Wow! You look damn scary in these black masks. Could you say something more about this gathering? For example, what rituals did you perform?

I would add: that there is one thing that simply cannot be denied: for all the irrelevant butting of heads in the external clash of forms, beyond all the mystery, games, intrigue and doubt, surpassing the unfolding of personal physis and its landscape of shapes across the last decade spanning various individuals manifesting various forms (driven by forces) - and it is that thing I have always believed: and that is that the O9A has undeniably changed things forever.

Petty **** is petty ****, a storm in a tea cup, much ado about Nothing, trying to count the grains of sand on the beach and all the trees and leaves in the forest. The message lost in the details, the divinity divided into particulars.

A good online drama is entertaining though and it livens up the forums. It's nice to see you weren't fooled by it. :)
 

jeff77

Member
the irrelevant butting of heads in the external clash of forms, beyond all the mystery, games, intrigue and doubt, surpassing the unfolding of personal physis and its landscape of shapes across the last decade spanning various individuals manifesting various forms (driven by forces)
I don't think it was irrelevant because I understood it - to borrow an O9A phrase - as a dialectical narrative which might have been both useful to one or two individuals - with the phrase pathei mathos coming to mind - and if not interesting for others then providing them with either entertainment or with ammunition for their existing prejudices.

Thankfully though it's all over now. I hope :)

I have always believed...that the O9A has undeniably changed things forever.
I unreservedly agree! As per this - O9A Esotericism – An Initiated Apprehension | O9A

PS. I found many of your comments re Mead/O9A interesting & insightful and look forward to reading more.
 

jeff77

Member
Petty **** is petty ****, a storm in a tea cup, much ado about Nothing.
Yeah keep believing that since it's obviously what keeps your boat afloat.

20 years on and who'll remember or even read any of your comments here or elsewhere - if these comments and such forums still exist. No one will remember or read them.

What will be remembered though is the O9A - for good or bad - and that may well be partly because of what 'Hollow' may now go on to write and do. Do you get this "may now go on to write and do" or not?
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
Jeff77 said:
Yeah keep believing that since it's obviously what keeps your boat afloat.
It's quite telling you and KS ignore all the comments about the form vs the essence. For one brief moment I hoped you were just joking and pretending to be that silly and petty. It seems though that your hypocrisy really reached the level of absurdity.

20 years on and who'll remember or even read any of your comments here or elsewhere
It's enough you're reading them now here and on 600 Club. It's quite indicative you keep bashing all these "mundane" forums, yet you keep reading them and posting on them. I'm not a celebrity, I'm on the forums for fun, entertainment and intellectual challenge.

if these comments and such forums still exist. No one will remember or read them. What will be remembered though is the O9A - for good or bad
Forums come and go but Satan will live for ever. Even if these forums and its users are gone with the wind, there will be new Satanic venues and a bunch of new self proclaimed Satanists creating their own churches and cults, circle - jerking to each other and constantly quarreling about whose Satan is the only true Satan, just like it is now and has always been. If you really think that all the Satanists will one day happily unite under the ONA banner, then by all means keep deluding yourself.

Do you get this "may now go on to write and do" or not?
In spite of all your petty accusations, in general opinion the Temple of Them is one of the many ONA causal forms/nexions. If you wanted to convince the general public KHK is a pretender, then you failed. This is why I wrote it would be better to deal with this in private, although from what I managed to observe in your private Facebook group, most ONA folks are indifferent to this drama.

The only thing you managed to do is to provide some entertainment to the few amateur writers and one bored drama queen from the cool 600 Club. I guess we all owe you one big:

Thank You!!!
It was the best soap opera ever! :clap
 
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jeff77

Member
It's quite telling you and KS ignore all the comments about the form vs the essence.
Since you can't even answer basic esoteric questions about the O9A - WTF are you talking about?

Do you even know the difference between O9A essence and causal forms? If so enlighten us.

The only thing you managed to do...blah blah
More of your personal opinions - but based on what if anything at all?

Since you're "a dreamer walking in clouds except in winter when you walk in the snow" then I'm guessing - given your hundreds of posts about the O9A here and elsewhere over the past year - that you keep dreaming about the O9A and those associated with it since it or something evidently either annoys you or - like the psychic contagion it is - the O9A has invaded your psyche. Or is it that you're annoyed because you believe some people are indifferent to or somehow have spoiled the "real, original" ONA, ® and © ONA Corp 1989?

For interesting and unanswered questions are - why do you post on satanic and LHP forums? Are you a Satanist and if you are then what is your Satanism and why? Are you on a LHP journey and if you are then what for you is the LHP and why? In both cases - why so petulant re the O9A? What's your beef with the O9A? Or is it just a case of trolling because you're bored or posting about the O9A - and whatever - makes you feel better or even alive?

Whatever. The bottom line is that you present here and elsewhere the personal opinions of yet one more anonymous internet person among millions.

But does any of this - do anonymous you and your personal opinions - matter? In Aeonic terms? Will what matters to you now - and will your internet presented opinions matter - in 15, 20, 50, a 100, years from now? You may believe so but in reality no your opinions and you and what matters to you now won't matter at all - and not only because you're now doing minuscule work re O9A memes and thus in your own dreamy snow-walking way aiding the O9A mythos.

So why do you bother?

then you failed
Anyone reading your exchanges with KS will know who really failed. But keep up the ego boasting fantasy, cloud-dreamer.
 

jeff77

Member
your hypocrisy really reached the level of absurdity
Hypocrisy? Absurdity? You've had 6 months to answer a basic question about the O9A - six months to search the net for answers - and yet you still can't answer that question. About a map.

Why haven't you answered that and other questions you were asked?

It's really "indicative" - at least to me - that you haven't made any comment at all on the informative posts made by 'hollow' and KS re Mead, Pymander, and the O9A. Why is that? Is it because you don't have the knowledge and prefer instead to make snide & trollish remarks like "a good online drama...trying to count the grains of sand on the beach...a storm in a tea cup, much ado about Nothing... jerking to each other and constantly quarreling...petty accusations...provide some entertainment to the few amateur writers and one bored drama queen."

Where's your occult content? Where's your contribution here to the LHP discussion about ancient hermetic texts and KHk's insights and KS's comments about stuff like εἶδος? Do you even know what εἶδος is without having to google it? Obviously not or you wouldn't have made such a trollish claim as -
It's quite telling you and KS ignore all the comments about the form vs the essence

Moving on, maybe you can provide us with links to your contributions to Satanism and the LHP? No?

For all we ever seem to get from you is trollish stuff like "you're entitled to your little plebeian opinion...how damn clever of you...you should work as Putin's propagandist...it's been dismissed as crap."

Perhaps you can also explain how you constantly contradict yourself? Like when you said recently that "the only thing you managed to do is to provide some entertainment" and yet also previously said that the "campaign seems to work nicely on Chris, who already denounced eight years of his writing and wrote some silly things on his blog."
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
Jeff77 said:
Since you can't even answer basic esoteric questions about the O9A - WTF are you talking about?

Do you even know the difference between O9A essence and causal forms? If so enlighten us.

I don't have to answer your questions. The essence of all religions, cults, mysteries, philosophies or even some fraternities is the same - the internal change of an individual, gaining wisdom. You can call it "Lapis Philosophicus", Christians call it God's Kingdom, Freemasons a "Secret" and so on.

As for the rest of your tirade and the silly message you sent me, are you feeling better now?
 

jeff77

Member
I don't have to answer your questions
In other words you can't answer the questions asked. Is it in the nature of internet trolls that they keep asking questions of others but don't reply when someone asks them questions?

The essence of all religions, cults, mysteries, philosophies or even some fraternities is the same - the internal change of an individual, gaining wisdom. You can call it "Lapis Philosophicus", Christians call it God's Kingdom, Freemasons a "Secret" and so on.
It's glaringly obvious by the above mundane - sweepingly generalized - statement that you don't understand the esotericism of the O9A at all for if you did you'd know the difference - in O9A ontology - between εἶδος and οὐσία. Plus you either forgot or didn't know that for the O9A "wisdom" has a particular meaning and one that Christians and many others would baulk at.

your tirade
That's very humorous indeed coming from someone who has written stuff like "you're entitled to your little plebeian opinion...how damn clever of you...you should work as Putin's propagandist...it's been dismissed as crap...drama queen...blah blah" and who also must have been reading 1001 Cliches For Internet Trolls because they sure can pack several cliches into a single post - "trying to count the grains of sand on the beach...a storm in a tea cup...much ado about Nothing". :)
 
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