Atheists - What is the meaning of life?

[FerventGodSeeker]

why don't you think an atheist can'thave meaning in life?

Um...I've been explaining it for an hour or so, lol. Sorry, you'll have to go back and look.

I'm trying to get Majikthise off the couch to join in but no luck. I'm so sick of the thought that if you don't believe in GOd, your life must be empty. How foolish.

If no God exists, then we are born, live a few years on a tiny rock, and then lose consciousness and rot underground (or maybe we get burned into thousands of pieces). That seems pretty empty, yep.

FGS

 

[gnomon]

I was going to put this in a discussion room but my comments always seem to get threads booted to debate areas, so why not just skip the foreplay, lol. This question is for atheists, and I'm wondering what you guys feel the meaning or purpose of life is, and how you reach that conclusion?

FGS

There is no purpose in life. My purpose is to live my life as I see fit. I reached that conclusion by being reasonable.

Pretty simple question to answer.

 

[JerryL]

Then why did you disagree with me all this time? Go back and look, we were always talking about the purpose of intentionally created things.

Actually, ihs nuance is wrong. All intentionally created things are created for a purpose. That does not mean that they themselves have a purpose.

I wanted to dump the dirt I was carrying so I dumped it. In doing so, I created a mound. The mound has no purpose, but its creation fulfilled my purpose of dumping the dirt I was carrying.

That's not it's INTENDED purpose, however. You have morphed its purpose to do something that it was not designed to do, which we so often do with our own lives over against the purpose God has for us.

God had no intended purpose.

 

[finalfrogo]

Then why did you disagree with me all this time? Go back and look, we were always talking about the purpose of intentionally created things.
That's not it's INTENDED purpose, however. You have morphed its purpose to do something that it was not designed to do, which we so often do with our own lives over against the purpose God has for us.

FGS

Hey, it's MY intended purpose for the caculator.

 

[JerryL]

If no God exists, then we are born, live a few years on a tiny rock, and then lose consciousness and rot underground (or maybe we get burned into thousands of pieces). That seems pretty empty, yep.

You claim it's "empty", though you offer no proof beyond "it seems that way".

But for a moment, I'll assume your conclusion. Existance is empty. Ok. Now what?

 

[finalfrogo]

If surviving is our only purpose in life, we are bound to fail miserably at some point.

FGS

.......

 

[JerryL]

Hey, it's MY intended purpose for the caculator.

What if you MADE that calculator. Then it's INTENDED purpose could be (whatever it was you did with it, I forgot). :yes:

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Purpose must be given at creation because created things performing outside their purpose would create problems.

So if I created a Nanobot to kill all human life, but it ended up only destroying cancer cells and eliminating cancer on Earth, that would be creating problems?

Except that you created the Nanobot with bad intentions, while God created us with good intentions, thus the difference. Any deterrence from perfection is imperfection, thus yes, it creates problems.

Again you base your support on an unsupported assertion. I don't agree that a dolphin is a "lower lifeform", nor do I see any support for your claim that "higher than human" can make it's own purpose and "lower than human" cannot.

Really? So a human can perform no higher function than a dolphin can?

Since there is no one who believes in a universe without reprocussions, that's a bad hypothetical.

Again, we were assuming "without God and without laws", so of course it's not realistic It's a hypothetical desgine to show that atheists have no ability to stand up to what is wrong, namely because they don't know what wrong is, or can't reasonably define it.

and I might not like that state of affairs... so I guess I don't want to kill people because I don't want to be in the middle of a war.

Neat how that all worked out without God.

You think it worked out without God, because you don't believe in God...that doesn't mean He wasn't involved.

Because you don't want anarchy... and you didn't even need Deific morality.

Actually I did.

There is no objective definition of "good" or "bad", ergo what Hitler did was objectively neither. Subjectively I find i bad.

That's the point, there is an objective definition, provided by the infinite Creator of the universe.

But you answered it... because we don't want to. One reason to not want to was given above.

Because I want to.

And what if someone else's doesn't want to? You can't say they are wrong in any objective way.


FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Hey, it's MY intended purpose for the caculator.

Ok...how is any of this debunking the claim that all intentionally created things have a purpose?

FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

You claim it's "empty", though you offer no proof beyond "it seems that way".

How ISN'T it ultimately empty to live for a few years on a rock that is bound to eventually be destroyed anyways, and then to die and rot on that rock?

But for a moment, I'll assume your conclusion. Existance is empty. Ok. Now what?

Now, we have no reason to go on. What's the point? We're all going to die, we're all going to be worm-food, there is no purpose, there is no morality, there is no nothing. Why shouldn't I kill myself?

FGS

 

[Willamena]

How ISN'T it ultimately empty to live for a few years on a rock that is bound to eventually be destroyed anyways, and then to die and rot on that rock?

Because you live on that rock. Life is meaningful, for humans at least. Even the "emptiness" you see is meaning --a meaning that defeats itself by being meaningful to you.

Now, we have no reason to go on. What's the point? We're all going to die, we're all going to be worm-food, there is no purpose, there is no morality, there is no nothing. Why shouldn't I kill myself?

I have lots of reasons. I'm sorry you don't.

 

[JerryL]

Except that you created the Nanobot with bad intentions, while God created us with good intentions, thus the difference. Any deterrence from perfection is imperfection, thus yes, it creates problems.

So what you said before is wrong. You said that going against intentions was bad (citing Frankenstien) and now it's only going against *good* intentions that is bad.

OK. I made the nanobot to cure the common cold but it ended up cureing cancer. How is this bad?

Not to mention that you've interjected "good" and "bad" into a discussion who don't believe they exist in an objective manner, and thrown perfection into the mix despite it damaging your core argument about creators and their creations.

Really? So a human can perform no higher function than a dolphin can?

What's a "higher function"? BTW, how is your sonar?

Again, we were assuming "without God and without laws", so of course it's not realistic It's a hypothetical desgine to show that atheists have no ability to stand up to what is wrong, namely because they don't know what wrong is, or can't reasonably define it.

God is not a prerequsite of reprocussions. Stick your hand on a burner and see if there's a reprocussion.

Your discussion on morality is off-topic.

You think it worked out without God, because you don't believe in God...that doesn't mean He wasn't involved.

At no point in your causual description did you rely on a God reference. You were capable of, and in fact did, support pursposeful behavior without a God. Though if this at one point related to the topic, I don't think it still does.

That's the point, there is an objective definition, provided by the infinite Creator of the universe.

It's no more or less "objective" than my definition.

And what if someone else's doesn't want to? You can't say they are wrong in any objective way.

Nope. Never tried to either. I experience the world subjectively and so act accordingly.

Now, we have no reason to go on. What's the point? We're all going to die, we're all going to be worm-food, there is no purpose, there is no morality, there is no nothing. Why shouldn't I kill myself?

Because you don't want to. Unless you do want to in which case "go for it".

 

[gnomon]

My question is this: Why is it supposed that someone who believes in a creative force behind our existence believe there is some sort of purpose in life?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

So what you said before is wrong. You said that going against intentions was bad (citing Frankenstien) and now it's only going against *good* intentions that is bad.

Obviously I was assuming the Christian view of creation, in which all things were created good and without evil. Thus, a deterrence from the is bad.

OK. I made the nanobot to cure the common cold but it ended up cureing cancer. How is this bad?

The question is irrelevant to the Christian view of God's creaiton of the universe.

Not to mention that you've interjected "good" and "bad" into a discussion who don't believe they exist in an objective manner, and thrown perfection into the mix despite it damaging your core argument about creators and their creations.

And I believe they do exist in an objective manner, that's the point.

What's a "higher function"? BTW, how is your sonar?

How's your pet dolphin's algebra? Perhaps it could write it's memoirs for us, or contemplate the meaning of its existence?

God is not a prerequsite of reprocussions. Stick your hand on a burner and see if there's a reprocussion.

God is still a cause of that repercussion if he created heat and created humans with nerve endings.

Your discussion on morality is off-topic.

LOL...no, it isn't. It's exactly on topic as to how atheists frame their worldview. I'd say that the purpose of life and morality are at least distantly related subjects.

At no point in your causual description did you rely on a God reference. You were capable of, and in fact did, support pursposeful behavior without a God.

I didn't explicitly mention God because I already believe in Him, and my moral standings are based on my God-given conscience.

It's no more or less "objective" than my definition.

The definition given by the creator of the universe is more objective than yours, sorry to break it to you. If you choose to to disagree, feel free to take it up with Him.

Nope. Never tried to either. I experience the world subjectively and so act accordingly.

Glad to know that you and frogo can't and won't reasonably stand up against the next Holocaust. cool.

Because you don't want to. Unless you do want to in which case "go for it"

WHy would I want to? What's the point?

This topic is getting long and I think we're reaching the end of the discussion. We simply see things differently, I from an objective, God-centered view (although I admittedly stray from it a lot) and you from a subjective, human-centered point of view. There's not much more to say. However, I'll give you the last word.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[HopefulNikki]

Now, we have no reason to go on. What's the point? We're all going to die, we're all going to be worm-food, there is no purpose, there is no morality, there is no nothing. Why shouldn't I kill myself?

FGS

I'm not an atheist, but I will respond to the question with something I think is relevant. Some of Buddha's last words were, "Do not vainly lament, but realize that nothing is permanent and learn from it the emptiness of human life. Do not cherish the unworthy desire that the changeable might become unchanging."

We should be living life to the fullest BECAUSE we don't know what's coming.

 

[eudaimonia]

I am an atheist, and I'll just say that I think that we have a naturally appropriate purpose to life, which is to flourish as the human beings and unique individuals we are.

In other words, we each have a personal good -- a well-being -- to achieve which, when chosen, is a purpose to life that matters in a way that transcends mere subjective preference.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[doppelganger]

FGS,

Let's get's back to basics.

What is "God"?

 

[d.]

Well duh. Did you think you were going to figure out an infinite God with a finite brain? I just give myself headaches when I do that, lol/

you contradict yourself - you have been claiming to have done just that numerous times in this thread. let me give a few examples :

God created us with good intentions,

He is infinite,

Since God is the Creator of all things, He assigns a purpose to all things,

God never HAD a beginning, and thus had no cause or creator,
and thus because He is timeless and omnipotent and we are not, He can assign purpose to Himself and all things He creates,

God is a totally different being than ourselves,

the wonderful thing about God is, He will never force you[...]to go to heaven

i hope it didn't give you a headache.

I also recognize the inherant morality in all people...I believe it was put there by God. Or did you think we just randomly adapted a natural distaste for things like murder and rape?

i have seen no indication that humans have a 'natural distaste' for murder and rape - especially since humans do it so often.

i have certainly never seen any indication in human history that christian or other religious beliefs have in any way kept people from murdering, raping, pillaging and looting either. why, there's even a lot of it in the bible.

Atheists with subjective, relativistic morality have no logical reason to stand up to what is wrong. They have no purpose for their life other than what they invent in their minds, and they can't reasonably defend right and wrong.

no logic or reason was used here.

recognizing the fact that 'morality' is a human invention (which the non-human world, for example the dolphin community, surely cares little about) and that there is no way one can claim that one set of moral standards is shared by all people (for instance, a fundamentalist christian and i probably have vastly different moral codes) does not mean that morality is somehow 'pointless'.

yes, an atheistic perspective does mean that you have to argue why you should not kill other people. which in my mind is a whole lot better situation than following 'divine decrees'.

appointing certain people in weird clothesto be better suited to 'know the mind of god' only means giving certain people in weird clothes a chance to say 'well, god approves of killing if it's done to those who takes his name in vain, like those nasty muslims for example', and since god can't be argued with, well, you get the picture. it's a situation that allows for any arbitrary moral guidelines to be elevated to 'divine law' without them having to stand for any kind of debate or intellectual scrutiny.

second, it is certainly news to me that i can't 'reasonably defend right or wrong'.

If no God exists, then we are born, live a few years on a tiny rock, and then lose consciousness and rot underground (or maybe we get burned into thousands of pieces). That seems pretty empty, yep.

only if you've got christian, or should i say theistic, expectations on life. if god is taken away, for you, life seems empty. me, i see an unfathomable miracle, every second. i don't need 'god' for that.



the core of your argument seems to be that if there exists no objective, divine morals, there is no reason to uphold any morals at all, and if there exists no objective, divine purpose, there's no reason to get up in the morning at all.

this is not logic, it's just plain nonsense.

 

[Willamena]

What is "God"?

An invisible thing that supports everything visible.

 

[choirboy]

Would purpose be a better word than meaning. What is the purpose of life. I always think of meaning as meaning purpose in this question.
There is no purpose/meaning for our existance as a species. Evolution tells us that we are a moderately successful peice of replicating dna. The history of the universe is about one huge phyisical and chemical reaction. There is no purpose/meaning to it.


The meaning and purpose we have for our own lives we create our selves.