Atheists On Judgement Day

[Gmcbroom]

The Bible says a lot of things like, "call no man your father," "faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, ask anything of the Father in my name and it will be done for you", or "if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out."

None of those verses mean what they say. Perhaps the verse you are quoting doesnt mean what it says either.

Yes, you do portray God as a bigot.

big·ot
ˈbiɡət/Submit
noun
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

You are implying that people like Gandhi did not have the grace of God or get to heaven, right?

I’m implying that as good or bad Gahdi was we are all fallen man. Gandhi like me or you could never reach God or atone completely on our own. But Jesus who is true God and true man did. He redeemed us all. He satisfied our Heavenly Fathers justice. An act only he could do satisfactorily. However, we need to ask or accept Jesus’s help. Our free will allows us to say no. Jesus’s mercy covers us if we but accept it. God is no bigot; he is both just and merciful. Or do you think God should just have everybody in heaven? Where is the Justice in that?

 

[Spiderman]

I’m implying that as good or bad Gahdi was we are all fallen man. Gandhi like me or you could never reach God or atone completely on our own. But Jesus who is true God and true man did. He redeemed us all. He satisfied our Heavenly Fathers justice. An act only he could do satisfactorily. However, we need to ask or accept Jesus’s help. Our free will allows us to say no. Jesus’s mercy covers us if we but accept it. God is no bigot; he is both just and merciful. Or do you think God should just have everybody in heaven? Where is the Justice in that?

God could give people a painful purification in purgatory.

Humble, kind, compassionate people don't deserve hell! Confused heretics, Muslims, Pagans, Jews, Hindus, or Protestants, don't usually know they are confused, and don't know the truth, so are not at fault!

 

[QuestioningMind]

Without faith it is impossible to please God. You wouldn’t call on someone you don’t believe in. So repent, believe in God for he is faithful. Jesus Christ is the visible icon of the invisible God; he said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. I and the Father are one. So repent, and be baptized. Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen said,”If you have doubt on which church to follow look for the one hated by the world.” Age counts so which church claims it goes all the way back to the Apostles and founded by Jesus himself. The list is shorter than you think. The Ancient Church of the East,the Coptic Orthodox, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic Church. Which one is hated by the world the most well that’s the Roman Catholic Church. Look there read the early church fathers then compare that to today. Did they accommodate the world and change? Nope. Join us and become a saint. Read the lives of the saints. Your called to sainthood, join us.

How is that possible? Are you capable of forcing yourself to believe in something that you've been given absolutely no reason to believe actually exists? Let's say that I tell you that I have an invisible magical unicorn and if you just genuinely believe that it exists it will give you one BILLION dollars. Is that something you could MAKE yourself do? Would you be able to abandon all logic and reason that tells you there is absolutely no evidence that my magical unicorn exists and FORCE yourself to actually believe that it does?

 

[Spiderman]

How is that possible? Are you capable of forcing yourself to believe in something that you've been given absolutely no reason to believe actually exists? Let's say that I tell you that I have an invisible magical unicorn and if you just genuinely believe that it exists it will give you one BILLION dollars. Is that something you could MAKE yourself do? Would you be able to abandon all logic and reason that tells you there is absolutely no evidence that my magical unicorn exists and FORCE yourself to actually believe that it does?

I try to get people like @Gmcbroom to see that people are not at fault for disbelief or heresy, so they should not be punished for it.

That is an unjust cruel God they are promoting! I'm supposed to worship someone like that for eternity? Would that be heaven?

 

[Gmcbroom]

God could give people a painful purification in purgatory.

Humble, kind, compassionate people don't deserve hell! Confused heretics, Muslims, Pagans, Jews, Hindus, or Protestants, don't usually know they are confused, and don't know the truth, so are not at fault!

Purgatory isn’t a third way. All in purgatory died in friendship with God, they are all going to heaven. The length of time varies for each one. I forgot the name of the st I think it was st Faustina in her communication with Jesus as she is shown purgatory and the suffering there; she hears his voice saying my mercy doesn’t want this but my justice demands it.

As for the humble, kind and compassionate person, it is said in the Bible that the just man sins 7 times a day. We are all sinners compassionate or not. They need simply accept the mercy of God through the sacrifice of his Don Jesus Christ and be saved. It takes an act of the will. We must repent. As for the pagan or the Hindu I think they’re following their natural lights as best they can. The Muslims, Jehovah witnesses, Mormons, Baha’i, etc all follow a revelation that supplants the Catholic revelation; implying Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. As such I fear for them. As for the Protestants or separated brethren they having knowledge of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross for all mankind have a chance. The fullness of the truth is in the Catholic Church.

The problem many have is assuming all religions are the same and lead to heaven. This is false. For if all are the same then none are true. The heresy of relativism.

 

[nPeace]

Okay to differ, but you missed the original post [last line] on which my answer was based. So your reply has nothing to do with the last question in the OP.

It seems you claim to know how an atheist thinks/feels/understands saying:
"Because the Atheist doesn't understand what it means according to the second commandment - Love neighbor as self".

I try to not think for the other. Especially the Atheist, I found out on RF, has a sharp mind, and can think well for himself is my impression.

My reply is in response to your reply, which you based on this

First Commandment = Love God.....
Second Commandment = Love thy neighbor as thyself [equal to the first]

Going by that led me to a different conclusion than yours.

The conclusion doesn't involve getting into someone's mind. It only analyses those two commandments and their relation to the parties involved.

Since both commandments, as you nicely pointed out are wrapped up in one, namely - love God, naturally it's easy to see why it can only lead to the conclusion I arrived at.

A few other details can also verify the conclusion.

 

[nPeace]

Well, what is doctrine?

99% of Christianity teach that the soul is immortal and the wicked are punished forever in hell.

Okay, Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28 says the soul dies.

Romans 6:7 says that once we die we are acquitted or justified of our sins. In other words if sin = death or the wages of sin are death then being tormented in hell forever isn't real.

So, look up immortal soul and hell. . . .

The soul

“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy‧khe′] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.

“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.

There. I've done all the work for you. If you are looking for God you will find God. If you are looking for tradition, doctrine, and religion you will find that instead of God.

It's up to you.

Simply put, doctrine is teaching.
So what I think @Epic Beard Man is saying is that Jehovah's Witnesses base what they say on teaching.

Those who know Jehovah's Witnesses, are aware that they always use the Bible to support what they say or do, in relation to worship.
So I suppose that would be scriptural doctrine, rather than doctrines of men, which you are describing here.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Without faith it is impossible to please God. You wouldn’t call on someone you don’t believe in. So repent, believe in God for he is faithful.

Anyone can call up on the Lord. Shallow group membership doesn't impress John the Baptist nor Jesus (for the most part).

I certainly hope not. No atheist should have to face endless, boring, eternity. We deserve better.

God hooks you up with the benefits package you prefer.

My favorite Judgment:

No, wait, that's not it, LOL:

 

[Gmcbroom]

Popeadope,
Are people responsible for their actions, ie free will? If you think so then you need to accept some people will choose not to believe. They made a choice a bad one but a choice none the less. I don’t know what your faith tradition is but the seriousness of salvation is why God the Son ie Jesus Christ commanded the apostles to go throughout the world to every nation proclaiming the Gospel to save mankind. Some accept the message and some reject the message.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Popeadope,
Are people responsible for their actions, ie free will? If you think so then you need to accept some people will choose not to believe. They made a choice a bad one but a choice none the less. I don’t know what your faith tradition is but the seriousness of salvation is why God the Son ie Jesus Christ commanded the apostles to go throughout the world to every nation proclaiming the Gospel to save mankind. Some accept the message and some reject the message.

I don't know about you but I didn't choose to not believe. When I was Christian I didn't believe, but pretended I did because that's what I thought I was supposed to do. The failure to be convinced by the Christian faith was not a choice I made, it was something that existed without my consent. I only became at peace when I understood I was lying to myself by going through the motions of something I didn't believe and stopped the act.

 

[Spiderman]

Popeadope,
Are people responsible for their actions, ie free will? If you think so then you need to accept some people will choose not to believe. They made a choice a bad one but a choice none the less. I don’t know what your faith tradition is but the seriousness of salvation is why God the Son ie Jesus Christ commanded the apostles to go throughout the world to every nation proclaiming the Gospel to save mankind. Some accept the message and some reject the message.

People are not responsible for believing in Hinduism, Atheism, Judaism, Buddhism, Paganism, Mormonism, Shintoism, Islam, or whatever...They were sometimes raised that way and sometimes face getting disowned by all their family or friends if they leave some of those traditions. Also, many people who hold those views, are following their heart. I am Catholic in many ways. I go to daily mass and confession, and was recently reciting the liturgy of the hours daily, the Divine mercy chaplet, and more than 20 decades of the Rosary daily on average. I also embrace Shintoism and admire the Buddha, Hindu Aghori, and other Sadhus.

However, there are Hindus, Pagans, or unbelievers, who I would consider more Christ-like, meek, humble, charitable, more peace-makers, more healthy mentally, and more productive members of society than myself (or most Christians for that matter).

They are following their heart, their inclinations, the golden rule, their moral compass, and their conscience. Many of them (I'm guessing almost all of them) do not know they are rejecting the truth. God is refusing to speak clearly to them, and I'm guessing many, if not almost all, atheists would embrace God with open arms if God would have the basic charity and kindness to simply speak a clear message to them every now and then.

The reason there are so many atheists, pagans, Muslims, Protestants, Jews, or what you would consider heretics, is because God refuses to tell these people to embrace a different set of beliefs or reveal the truth to them. Therefore, they are not at fault. Therefore do not deserve punishment for what is not their fault, and is actually the result of God's refusal to speak to them or reveal the truth to them.

Purgatory isn’t a third way. All in purgatory died in friendship with God, they are all going to heaven. The length of time varies for each one. I forgot the name of the st I think it was st Faustina in her communication with Jesus as she is shown purgatory and the suffering there; she hears his voice saying my mercy doesn’t want this but my justice demands it.

As for the humble, kind and compassionate person, it is said in the Bible that the just man sins 7 times a day. We are all sinners compassionate or not. They need simply accept the mercy of God through the sacrifice of his Don Jesus Christ and be saved. It takes an act of the will. We must repent. As for the pagan or the Hindu I think they’re following their natural lights as best they can. The Muslims, Jehovah witnesses, Mormons, Baha’i, etc all follow a revelation that supplants the Catholic revelation; implying Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. As such I fear for them. As for the Protestants or separated brethren they having knowledge of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross for all mankind have a chance. The fullness of the truth is in the Catholic Church.

The problem many have is assuming all religions are the same and lead to heaven. This is false. For if all are the same then none are true. The heresy of relativism.

I love Saint Faustina and have read her diary from front to back. I found it in many ways to be a better read than the Bible. However, I'm not going to embrace bigotry, hate, and injustice, no matter what Saint, Pope, or Scripture promotes it. Sending atheists and non-Christians to Hell for errors they didn't know to be erroneous, is cruel, unjust, depressing, and wrong. How can I condemn radical extremists like ISIS while defending bigotry, hate, and cruelty from Scripture, Catholic Saints, or anyone? That would be hypocrisy on my part to do so!

 

[Spiderman]

Oh, I find history and Wikipedia's portrayal of Ghandi unsatisfactory. Cheating on his wife, withholding life saving medication from her because it was Western and then taking it to save his own life. Disgusting!

I prefer to think of Ghandi as in my own way.

He also was a self-disciplined man of prayer, fasting, and peaceful protest against hatred, violence, and injustice. He was a peacemaker who faced persecution and was imprisoned for doing what is right. Everyone makes mistakes!

I don't see anything he did that was worse than King David, who was a prophet of God, wrote some of the Scriptures, and is called a "Man after God's own heart". Yet he had his right hand man Uriah killed so he could get away with committing adultery with his wife. Quite disgusting!

 

[Gmcbroom]

True anyone can call upon the Lord Jesus Christ. His mercy is endless. That is why the church is commanded to evangelize. Even if it means our death. People today especially in the west (and I’m guilty of it too) have felt it’s better to get along and not offend anyone. But that’s not what we’re commanded to do.

 

[Gmcbroom]

Popeadope,

If I’m understanding you correctly it seems you take what aspects of religion that suits you and leave the rest.

 

[Spiderman]

Popeadope,

If I’m understanding you correctly it seems you take what aspects of religion that suits you and leave the rest.

I wouldn't be surprised if you do the same thing.

Most Catholics I'm assuming masturbate or contracept for instance, which the Pope or Catechism condemn as sinful and disordered.

Why should I embrace hatred, bigotry, torture, cruelty, and injustice? I condemn those things, so if I then defend them, that is total hypocrisy.

 

[Spiderman]

Popeadope,

If I’m understanding you correctly it seems you take what aspects of religion that suits you and leave the rest.

Could you please quote me or tag me when you speak to me?

 

[Spiderman]

@Gmcbroom
I have a little voice inside me that tells me killing babies, stoning adulterers, stoning people for working on the wrong day of the week, killing kids for disrespecting their parents, killing homosexuals, killing a man for steadying a Religious box (with fake angels and relics), hardening the heart of Pharaoh, genocide, treating a "chosen people" as superior to everyone else (racism), killing the first-born of Egypt for crimes they didn't commit, killing women and children etc. all of which are in Scripture, is ****ed up!

That voice inside me tells me to follow laws and not mistreat people. Do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I follow that voice inside me over any text that promotes tyranny, hate, injustice, or torture in this life or the next. All of which the voice inside me tells me is wrong!

 

[Earthling]

@Gmcbroom
I have a little voice inside me that tells me killing babies, stoning adulterers, stoning people for working on the wrong day of the week, killing kids for disrespecting their parents, killing homosexuals, killing a man for steadying a Religious box (with fake angels and relics), hardening the heart of Pharaoh, genocide, treating a "chosen people" as superior to everyone else (racism), killing the first-born of Egypt for crimes they didn't commit, killing women and children etc. all of which are in Scripture, is ****ed up!

That voice inside me tells me to follow laws and not mistreat people. Do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I follow that voice inside me over any text that promotes tyranny, hate, injustice, or torture in this life or the next. All of which the voice inside me tells me is wrong!

The little voice inside you is lying to you or only telling you part of the story.

 

[Spiderman]

The little voice inside you is lying to you or only telling you part of the story.

I find your statement very offensive!

You are telling me compassion, sympathy, charity, consideration for human rights, and treating people with dignity is wrong, and my moral compass is lying to me.

Thing is, you don't know this to be true! Yet you state it as though it is fact! You know this to be true? And how is that?

 

[ecco]

You, on the other hand, face eternity. Have you ever seriously considered what eternity is? After the first 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, what would there be new or exiting?

At that point you would, perhaps, seriously consider that you still have 99.9999999999999999999999999999+% of eternity to go.

You are thinking in the wrong terms.

How so? Do you think eternity doesn't mean eternity?