Atheists and believers surprisingly share moral values, except for these 2 key differences

[PureX]

You make this claim, but fail to provide evidence that it is actually 'purposeful':" in other words, that there is intention behind it.

Design is a process of enforced order intended to achieve a specific result. The function of DNA is to impose a design process that intends to achieve specific results. That you refuse to acknowledge this is not my responsibility to overcome for you.

You are assuming there *is* a goal. And you do that without any reason for assuming such.

There is a specific result that has been predetermined by a specific design process. This is not an assumption. It is an observed fact. That you refuse to connect the process and the result of the process to infer intent is not my problem to deal with.

So it is action because of hope? That seems an unusual way to define it, but sure. In that case, how is it relevant to our discussion? What does it have to do with moral values or justifying such because of consequences?

The hope is that our embodying those gifts of the spirit as we live our lives will fulfill an existential purpose that remains hidden from us.

In that case, I would simply say that you are very lucky. I have found intuition to be *much* worse that evidence based decision making.

I suspect that your 'intuiter' is broken.

And, contrast to what you claim, the fact that intuition is immediate and 'inclusive' is *precisely* why it is overwhelmed with bias. It is the biases making the decision in that case, not rational consideration of the alternatives.

And I would simply say that if you have to explain this to most people, then it is *you* that is using the word incorrectly.

Which simply means there is no actual justification, only our own biases and feelings.

Intuition is like any other metaphysical tool available to we humans. The more we engage with it, the better we get at it.

 

[LuisDantas]

I accept that you are not.

I am not a believer in Deontology........TTFN

You are not?

You sure put a lot of value in rules for one who is not. Maybe I misunderstood you at some point.

 

[Polymath257]

Design is a process of enforced order intended to achieve a specific result.

Good. I like that definition.

The function of DNA is to impose a design process that intends to achieve specific results. That you refuse to acknowledge this is not my responsibility to overcome for you.

And what you fail to show is *intent*. DNA is a chemical molecule. It interacts chemically with other things in its environment. There is no 'goal' to achieve a specific result, merely chemicals doing what they do. There is no 'imposition' of order. There is simply order.

If you disagree, please give a good criterion for determining when there is intent and apply it to DNA.

There is a specific result that has been predetermined by a specific design process.

There is no evidence of 'design' outside of the evolutionary process that has no 'goal'. This is NOT order being imposed, but rather order simply existing because of the properties of chemicals.

This is not an assumption. It is an observed fact. That you refuse to connect the process and the result of the process to infer intent is not my problem to deal with.

No, the *intent* is not observed. In fact, there is no evidence of intent and every evidence otherwise (including the randomness of mutations and the way evolution works in practice).

The hope is that our embodying those gifts of the spirit as we live our lives will fulfill an existential purpose that remains hidden from us.

Do you see that this is a very different type of 'hope' than hoping our plans will work out on a day to day basis? For the day to day hopes, we have the observed order of things to base our intuitions and knowledge.

I suspect that your 'intuiter' is broken.

Intuition needs training by evidence.

Intuition is like any other metaphysical tool available to we humans. The more we engage with it, the better we get at it.

Yes, we learn by looking at the evidence and then modifying our intuition to fit reality.

 

[Hold]

You are not?

You sure put a lot of value in rules for one who is not. Maybe I misunderstood you at some point.

I have a bad habit of writing with my foot in my mouth........Have a Good Day.