Atheism is not a default position

[Thief]

Correct.

Is ignorance of a topic the same as actively believing in a topic?
Is not knowing of a god Theism?

No. It is not.

And anything that is "not theism" is called............................atheism.

wrong.
Atheism is an action....a declaration.
a judgment call has been made.

find the nearest baby and write ' atheist' on it's forehead with a black marker.
I think you will find the objection in your face in the form of an irrate mother.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

so you just want to kick the line drawn?

If It makes the conversation more productive then yeah. I'm saying its irrelevant

lacking the word .....god....in your vocabulary would be ignorance.

This is true. This is also not the definition of atheism. If one lacks the concept of "god" at all you by extension must lack a belief in the said concept.

as soon as you realize the word....god....you have to make a choice.

not making a choice is deliberate.....and therefore an action

There is no circumvention.
Atheism is a choice and a declaration.

never a 'born to it' condition.

No. Atheism is a state. It is a state in which one does not believe in god. By whatever means that may be it is a state. I have also argued against the concept of belief being a choice before. I believe choice plays some role but inevitably there is no total control over one's beliefs.

If you feel there is can you suddenly choose to become an atheist?

 

[ArtieE]

As I've covered before, the etymology of the word "atheist" specifically means "not a theist"
Atheism, literally, is not theism. Don't you think you're just wasting your time by trying to find a different or more appealing way to say the exact same thing?

Not at all. The whole point of saying non-theist instead of atheist is to try to avoid all the negative baggage associated with the Biblical definition of atheist.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Not at all. The whole point of saying non-theist instead of atheist is to try to avoid all the negative baggage associated with the Biblical definition of atheist.

Yes, that's exactly what I said...
I just think it's absurd to have to pussyfoot around the literal term just because some people attach their personal baggage to it.

A fact is a fact, regardless of how it's packaged, and regardless of how we feel about it. If someone doesn't like the fact, or the packaging it comes in, that's not really our problem is it?

It's like the creationists that I've been reading lately who absolutely refuse to commit to using the word "evolution" to describe their explanation for "variation and adaptation" despite the fact that what they are trying to describe to their readers is, in fact, darwinian evolution... They use chapter after chapter and platitude after platitude, covering sometimes literally thousands of words, instead of simply saying that evolution is adaption causing variation.

 

[Willamena]

Some people require a reason to believe something. If a person has no reason to believe in invisible, weightless fairies, he lacks belief in invisible, weightless fairies---he does not have to be ignorant of the idea of invisible, weightless fairies, he merely has to lack a reason to believe in them. If a person has no reason to believe in very sneaky unicorns, she lacks belief in very sneaky unicorns---she does not have to be ignorant of the idea of very sneaky unicorns to lack belief in them.

Now: If, by the very same logic, a person has no reason to believe in a very sneaky god, you've got yourself an atheist.

It really is that simple.

I think few would object to that. Having no reason to believe is euphemistically the rejection.

 

[Thief]

If It makes the conversation more productive then yeah. I'm saying its irrelevant

This is true. This is also not the definition of atheism. If one lacks the concept of "god" at all you by extension must lack a belief in the said concept.

No. Atheism is a state. It is a state in which one does not believe in god. By whatever means that may be it is a state. I have also argued against the concept of belief being a choice before. I believe choice plays some role but inevitably there is no total control over one's beliefs.

If you feel there is can you suddenly choose to become an atheist?

well if you have no control over your beliefs......
that explains the condition (state) of your position!
hehehehehe

 

[Thief]

and yes...atheism is a choice.
I worked with a guy that claimed he was a deacon in a local church......
and now professes there is no God.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

and yes...atheism is a choice.
I worked with a guy that claimed he was a deacon in a local church......
and now professes there is no God.

Can you choose to be an atheist right now? Can you choose to believe in Hinduism or Scientology right now? Can you choose to believe the opposite of your current political position by choice? Can you choose to believe in unicorns? If so would you please temporarily choose to believe in those and make a few posts?

 

[Bunyip]

That they are misusing the word and the definition they put forward is illogical. This lead to evidence they do not know what the word they are using means.



A meaningful discussion should use words properly. This prevents your description of your position from being incoherent when put to the test. Once this has been established it undermines position that babies are or are not atheists which is part of the OP. So my point because two birds and one stone.

There is no correct definition of atheism, how you can fail to grasp that I can not imagine.
This is just basic English mate, dictionaries record usages - they do not dictate which the correct definition is. How you got it into your head that anybody who applies a usage of 'atheism' different from your philosophical dictionary is 'misusing' the term I can not even imagine.

 

[Bunyip]

Define "official". If there's no "official" definition of atheist then we have to adopt the "unofficial" one supported by most atheists. "The more common understanding of atheism among atheists is "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made - an atheist is any person who is not a theist." This is then the "unofficially" correct one.

Wow! You are making failing to comprehend a basic characteristic of the English language into an art form.
There is no official or unofficial correct definition of 'atheism'.

Dictionaries record different word usages, which of course change over time. There are many different interpretations of what 'atheism' means. How you and a few others here seem so utterly unable to grasp this simple fact of language is stunning. There is no formal correct definition - because there is no authority to dictate one.

 

[Thief]

Can you choose to be an atheist right now? Can you choose to believe in Hinduism or Scientology right now? Can you choose to believe the opposite of your current political position by choice? Can you choose to believe in unicorns? If so would you please temporarily choose to believe in those and make a few posts?

If a prevailing error was discovered in my foundation of belief........yes.

your challenge is interesting.....post an op....and let me know

 

[Willamena]

There is no correct definition of atheism, how you can fail to grasp that I can not imagine.
This is just basic English mate, dictionaries record usages - they do not dictate which the correct definition is.

Just out of curiosity, what would a "correct definition" be?

 

[Bunyip]

Just out of curiosity, what would a "correct definition" be?

There isn't one. Just lots of different usages.
If you want to discuss what the correct definition is, you need to ask somebody who thinks that such a thing exists.

 

[Thief]

Wow! You are making failing to comprehend a basic characteristic of the English language into an art form.
There is no official or unofficial correct definition of 'atheism'.

Dictionaries record different word usages, which of course change over time. There are many different interpretations of what 'atheism' means. How you and a few others here seem so utterly unable to grasp this simple fact of language is stunning. There is no formal correct definition - because there is no authority to dictate one.

you have created a paradox.
The Authority on what an atheist really is......would be God.

 

[Willamena]

There isn't one. Just lots of different usages.
If you want to discuss what the correct definition is, you need to ask somebody who thinks that such a thing exists.

No, I mean, if there was one, what would it be? If you can declare there isn't one, you must have some idea of what it is.

 

[Bunyip]

No, I mean, if there was one, what would it be? If you can declare there isn't one, you must have some idea of what it is.

What? Can you re-phrase that please?

There would be a usage that best fits my position, but not one that describes all atheists.

 

[Bunyip]

you have created a paradox.
The Authority on what an atheist really is......would be God.

Imaginary authorities have little say.

 

[Willamena]

What? Can you re-phrase that please?

There would be a usage that best fits my position, but not one that describes all atheists.

What is a "correct definition" then?

 

[Thief]

Imaginary authorities have little say.

with no authority to quote.....neither do you.

 

[Bunyip]

What is a "correct definition" then?

A myth.