Atheism is not a default position

[Bunyip]

Nobody contests this. When a person tells you he's an atheist you know this person is not a theist and doesn't believe in the existence of gods. Please feel free to ask him to clarify and explain in more detail.

Yes exactly. That way definitions are irrelevant. Then you understand the position as opposed to arguing about the label being applied to it.

 

[Bunyip]

Then you shouldn't mind taking the next step and agreeing that implicit atheism is just as irrelevant as opining about the "philosophical opinions of inanimate objects." Correct?

Absolutely. It is a diversion. What matters is evidence for the God in question.

 

[Curious George]

Absolutely. It is a diversion. What matters is evidence for the God in question.

And how shall we weigh the evidences?

 

[Bunyip]

And how shall we weigh the evidences?

Same as we do the evidence for everything else I guess. With an open mind and an open heart.

 

[Valjean]

OK, just for the fun of it I'll play along.

All things fall into two sets: Things that have a belief in God and things that do not have a belief in God.
The latter, of course, would naturally contain all things with no beliefs at all -- like rocks.

"Weak atheist" is not a philosophical position, it's merely a descriptive term for all things without a belief in God. Now you may argue that this definition is so broad as to be practically useless, or you may argue that atheist does imply an epistemic position so would exclude non sentient things.
Fine. as Bunyip implied, as long as all parties understand each other's semantics there should be nothing impeding a productive discussion.

An American and a European can discuss the weather with no problem as long as they realise that one is using Fahrenheit and the other Celsius.

 

[Bunyip]

OK, just for the fun of it I'll play along.

All things fall into two sets: Things that have a belief in God and things that do not have a belief in God.
The latter, of course, would naturally contain all things with no beliefs at all -- like rocks.

"Weak atheist" is not a philosophical position, it's merely a descriptive term for all things without a belief in God. Now you may argue that this definition is so broad as to be practically useless, or you may argue that atheist does imply an epistemic position so would exclude non sentient things.
Fine. as Bunyip implied, as long as all parties understand each other's semantics there should be nothing impeding a productive discussion.

An American and a European can discuss the weather with no problem as long as they realise that one is using Fahrenheit and the other Celsius.

Brilliant! And that one thing that keeps impeding productive discussion - arguing about what 'atheism means'.

 

[ArtieE]

No offence mate, but if atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods, how can the definition of God being applied be anything other than critical, rather than irrelevant?

Without a definition of God atheism has no meaning whatsoever.

If a person tells you he's an atheist you know the person is not a theist and doesn't believe in the existence of gods. For all I care you can spend the rest of your lives discussing your definition of "god".

 

[Curious George]

Same as we do the evidence for everything else I guess. With an open mind and an open heart.

Hmm, I prefer to look at evidence with a meticulous and analytical mind and a skeptical heart.

 

[Bunyip]

Hmm, I prefer to look at evidence with a meticulous and analytical mind and a skeptical heart.

LOL I get that. I like to just follow the trail and see where it goes.

 

[Bunyip]

If a person tells you he's an atheist you know the person is not a theist and doesn't believe in the existence of gods. For all I care you can spend the rest of your lives discussing your definition of "god".

I haven't posited one. Let alone wasted time on it.

 

[Curious George]

If a person tells you he's an atheist you know the person is not a theist and doesn't believe in the existence of gods. For all I care you can spend the rest of your lives discussing your definition of "god".

I am an atheist. I believe god doesn't exist.

 

[ArtieE]

Yes exactly. That way definitions are irrelevant. Then you understand the position as opposed to arguing about the label being applied to it.

And if we stopped defining and labeling things how would we communicate Bunyip if we have no definitions of what the words we use mean?

 

[Bunyip]

And if we stopped defining and labeling things how would we communicate Bunyip if we have no definitions of what the words we use mean?

By explaining our positions with the words that we do have a mutual understanding of.

 

[Valjean]

We've all made our own working definitions clear. How monumentally obtuse must we be to have drawn out a simple semantic discussion to two thousand posts?

 

[Bunyip]

By explaining our positions with the words that we do have a mutual understanding of.

Other than 'God' and 'atheism' I think we have no difference in our understanding of what words mean is that correct? We should be able to manage that. What do you mean by 'God'?

 

[ArtieE]

By explaining our positions with the words that we do have a mutual understanding of.

So first we have to agree on the definition of those words?

 

[Bunyip]

So first we have to agree on the definition of those words?

Of course. Otherwise we don't know if we are talking about the same thing. And it would only take a minute, so what is the problem?

 

[ArtieE]

I am an atheist. I believe god doesn't exist.

Then you are a "strong atheist". Atheist because you are not a theist and don't believe god exists, strong because you go one step further and actively believe god doesn't exist.

 

[ArtieE]

Of course. Otherwise we don't know if we are talking about the same thing. And it would only take a minute, so what is the problem?

Let us all then agree that the definition of atheist is a person who is not a theist and doesn't believe gods exist. It will only take a minute.

 

[Bunyip]

Let us all then agree that the definition of atheist is a person who is not a theist and doesn't believe gods exist. It will only take a minute.

Sure. Define 'God' please.