Ask Madhuri a Question about Hinduism

[atanu]

---i think it better to give exact explanation about limitation in wear, ----

Do you think that God failed in His duty and did not instruct some people properly and left it for you to think on His behalf? If you reflect properly, you may find that because of this childish propensity of yours of only seeing and thinking about faults in others, God had to instruct you like a child is instructed

Sorry Madhuri.

 

[Maya3]

In fairness to Madhuri, I've decided to start a new thread. This one has been derailed enough. My apologies as I was a main offender. So please lets take this discussion to the thread called Adultery in the comparative religion section.

That is a good idea. Thanks for doing that.

Maya

 

[Madhuri]

Honestly I don't mind that you guys have provided information!

 

[Madhuri]

madhuri, if hinduism give the principles it may be difference of each person perception, for example about not trying to seduce people we are not married to, not having illicit sex, etc. some girls think that use bikinis is no problem and other don't think so.

I don't know any Hindu girls who think wearing a bikini is modest. People who are willing to use intelligence can understand the principles and for those who ignore their intelligence, they will eventually learn their lesson (karma).

 

[Madhuri]

maya, you said that : "God doesn't punish people. We each learn from our own mistakes".are you sure that is hinduism principle? yes, it good if someone can learn from his mistakes, but what about if he never wants to learn from the mistakes? and he likes to do mistakes until end of his life?

Everyone learns from their mistakes. That is what karma does. We all act selfishly as part of our nature as ignorant creatures. But through making mistakes we learn why it is bad to do some things. Like if someone steals from you, you will know how bad it makes you feel and in the future you may be less likely to steal from someone else because you know how they will feel.

This is the purpose of karma and of life according to Hinduism.

People who just follow rules cannot hope to really learn the lesson. I have asked so many people in Islam and Christianity why certain rules apply and they cannot answer. They only know there is a rule but not why that rule is important. Only 'because God says'. But in Hinduism, we learn exactly why some things are good or bad. Life is pointless if we are unable to learn from it.

You gave an example of the Hindu man who committed adultery. According to karma, this man will have to suffer sometime in the future in order to learn from his actions and become a better person. This man is not following his religion. Most people in the world break the rules or principles of their religion. There are plenty of men in Islam too who commit adultery. It is human nature to make mistakes. That is why karma exists.

 

[sumaidi]

Everyone learns from their mistakes. That is what karma does. We all act selfishly as part of our nature as ignorant creatures. But through making mistakes we learn why it is bad to do some things. Like if someone steals from you, you will know how bad it makes you feel and in the future you may be less likely to steal from someone else because you know how they will feel.

This is the purpose of karma and of life according to Hinduism.

People who just follow rules cannot hope to really learn the lesson. I have asked so many people in Islam and Christianity why certain rules apply and they cannot answer. They only know there is a rule but not why that rule is important. Only 'because God says'. But in Hinduism, we learn exactly why some things are good or bad. Life is pointless if we are unable to learn from it.

You gave an example of the Hindu man who committed adultery. According to karma, this man will have to suffer sometime in the future in order to learn from his actions and become a better person. This man is not following his religion. Most people in the world break the rules or principles of their religion. There are plenty of men in Islam too who commit adultery. It is human nature to make mistakes. That is why karma exists.

thanks Madhuri for the explanation, i agree with you that Most people in the world break the rules or principles of their religion. There are plenty of men in Islam too who commit adultery. It is human nature to make mistakes.
in my country, Indonesia, especially in the city of surabaya has the biggest prostitution in south east asia. goverment could not apply islamic punishment law to the people because there are many religion here. many of moslem men commit in adultery. but in other place, such as in city of aceh, Sumatera, western of indonesia, they apply islamic law there, just like in saudi arabia, including in adultery and stealing.
oya, what about stealing? is there any punishment for the thief in hinduism?

 

[Madhuri]

oya, what about stealing? is there any punishment for the thief in hinduism?

Not by humans. Again the universe is ruled by karma. If a person steals, he will one day lose that possession or something of equal value to him.

That is nature's 'punishment'.

And he may have to suffer based on the country's laws.

I must say again, Hinduism does not list rules like Islam does. It is a philosophical religion. It explains meanings, life purpose, how to be good and become better, how to be happy etc.

Someone who knows and believes in Hindu religion would not steal for selfish reasons because he knows it will cause suffering to others and himself eventually.

So even though we do not list rules, someone who learns the religions and tries to follow it will not easily behave immorally.

 

[sumaidi]

And he may have to suffer based on the country's laws.
.

if people who are hindu live community that doesn't has law of stealing, are you that this community will survive. if they all have good in their god, thats good, but its always the faith of each person are variety. im not sure that the community will run well if there is no exact law/punishment of stealing. don't think so, Madhuri?

 

[Madhuri]

if people who are hindu live community that doesn't has law of stealing, are you that this community will survive. if they all have good in their god, thats good, but its always the faith of each person are variety. im not sure that the community will run well if there is no exact law/punishment of stealing. don't think so, Madhuri?

Hindus create laws based on Dharma (religious principles). Using principles, humans are intelligent enough to create fair laws for their community. There have been times when society become corrupt but even so, Hindu societies have been among the most peaceful in the world through history. This is even more amazing because it is older than the other main world religions.

I will give you an example.

One Dharmic principle in Hinduism is non-violence. Therefore a Hindu society will do it's best to make laws against causing unnecessary violence. Another principle is religious harmony. Therefore Hindu laws should reflect this by showing respect to others' beliefs.

Other principles include truthfulness, self control and purity (of mind and body). Laws and culture are based on these principles.

Hindus are very much guided. But we do not have specific rules because rules sometimes must change with time and culture. But you can never be wrong if you follow a principle.

 

[sumaidi]

are you agree with your country law that give punishment to the thief or corruptor in goverment employee?

 

[Madhuri]

are you agree with your country law that give punishment to the thief or corruptor in goverment employee?

Yes, I do agree with generally with the laws in my country.

 

[sumaidi]

so if your country erase the law about stealing, i mean there is no human punishment to the thief, you don't agree?

 

[Madhuri]

so if your country erase the law about stealing, i mean there is no human punishment to the thief, you don't agree?

I don't see how this question links to what I explained.

I have a feeling you do not understand what I have told you.

 

[Madhuri]

What you seem to think is that good laws if religion tells us exactly what the laws should be.

Islam does this. It provides laws for a society to operate on.

Hinduism does not do this. Hinduism provides principles and values and using those principles and values, Hindus create laws for their society using their God-given intelligence. Historically, Hindu societies were monarchies. So there was a king who understood Dharma (religious principles) and could create laws that were good and fair. Hinduism also has many spiritual teachers, people who learn the scriptures and can guide the laws and culture to reflect religious principles.

The wonderful fact about this system in Hinduism is that when culture and technology changes, you can adjust the laws to suit. But in religions where there are strict rules, one must follow them even when it becomes silly to do so.

 

[atanu]

Madhuri, please allow me this.

Hinduism has Dharma Shastra-s, Code of Law for Hindus, mostly specific for specific periods of history and mostly for implementation by kingly rulers. But they are not for all periods and they are not universal. A rule for a professor cannot apply to a farmer etc. And a single rule cannot remain correct for all times.

There are however, yama-niyamas, the very general code of conduct that applies for all times and for all people.

The 10 Yamas & Niyamas of Hinduism - Restraints & Practices of the Hindus

There are other scriptures that also provide guidance to good and pure living.

 

[Madhuri]

if a country doesn't have no clear law for people, could it run normally? no punishment for thief, etc

Hindu countries have always had laws. Those laws are based on Hindu scriptures.

What I have tried to say is that Hindu laws are based on scripture principles. They are not directly dictated in the religion so these laws are able to change over time to suit the culture.

I will give one more example and see if you understand.

In Islam it is God's law for a woman to wear hijab for modesty.

Hinduism does not have a dress law. But it says one should be chaste/modest. So a Hindu woman who lives in a conservative country might cover her hair. Or a Hindu woman will show respect in the company of Muslims by covering her hair. But a Hindu woman who lives in a culture where showing her hair is not thought of as sexy will not need to cover her hair. And God will not punish her for it. She will behave modestly based on how that culture views modesty and how it views immodesty. This is something that changes with culture. For example, there are tribes where men and women are completely naked. But the men and women can sit together and not be distracted by this. It is not sexy to them, because their culture views sexy as something different.

 

[Vinayaka]

Regarding theft, another thing Hindus will do, at least on a personal level, is try to understand the underlying cause of the theft. For example there is a famous story where a man awakens to a thief in his house. Instead of being angry or fighting with the thief, he brings him a lamp, and says, "Here, have a look around. Take what you wish. You must be very poor and desperate to be committing theft."

Another example is the theft of food. I knew a teacher who had a student stealing other's food. Why? Because the girl was hungry. In Hinduism we would give her some food. In Islam, would that girl be punished according to the laws of Islam?

 

[Maya3]

I also want to add something about Separation of Church and State as it is called here in the US.

Hindu beliefs are spiritual beliefs and laws are not based upon them.
We have a legal system independent on religion.

It depends on the country you live in. I would be interested in how India handles this?

Maya

 

[sumaidi]

Regarding theft, another thing Hindus will do, at least on a personal level, is try to understand the underlying cause of the theft. For example there is a famous story where a man awakens to a thief in his house. Instead of being angry or fighting with the thief, he brings him a lamp, and says, "Here, have a look around. Take what you wish. You must be very poor and desperate to be committing theft."

Another example is the theft of food. I knew a teacher who had a student stealing other's food. Why? Because the girl was hungry. In Hinduism we would give her some food. In Islam, would that girl be punished according to the laws of Islam?

in islam, the punishment of stealing is cutting the thief hand. once again, the laws in islam is very detail, many criteria should be fulfill to make thief be punished. there are exception that makes thief free from the punishment, such stealing because of hunger, the value of thing less then 1/4 dinar or 3 dirham, etc.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

I think having specific do and dont in religion limits the religions ability to adapt to changing times and situations, something that Hinduism can be proud of that it has survived such a long time while many religions have come and gone.

in Hinduism there are eternal Laws, time specific Laws change with time, but eternal Laws never change.

that is why it is known as "Sanatana Dharma", the eternal Law.

for example if there is a specific law against homosexuality in a religion, then (like what is happening now) these Laws will encroach on the liberty of a human being, the freedom of being human will be removed and the blame will be on GOD.

also with having specific Laws in religion the problem also comes when certain Laws that are applicable today as being inhuman/unethical for example the prohibition of such things as paedophilia, slavery, having concubines ect may not be prohibited in the Laws of a religious sect, that then becomes a dividing line between the believers and non believers as there is the way of GOD or against GOD thus causing Chaos and disharmony.

These situations label the Laws in a religion as inconsistent with the advancement of all human beings and limit the freedom of the victims of such crimes.

Social Laws are best when made by living beings for the betterment and advancement of all living creatures, with scope of personal freedom incorporated within, then any folly in these Laws dont require humans to re-write their religious texts to correctly represent all humanity or to Blame GOD for their misfortunes.

Just my thought.

OHM TATH SATH