Ask a Mormon a question!

[Comprehend]

Yes, absolutely....

For instance I see the three degrees of glory and outer darkness this way in simple terms, but there is obviously more to it than this....

Example of a simplified version of beliefs among those in these spheres of existence.

Celestial (highest degree of glory where the Father and Son live)

Those who live here accept the Father, the Son and the "fullness" of their gospel along with the Holy Ghost.

Terrestrial-(middle degree of glory where Christ visits, but the Father does not)

Those who live here accept Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, but not the Father neither His "fullness".

Telestial-(lowest degree of glory where the Holy Ghost visits, but not the Father and the Son)

Those who live here accept the Holy Ghost, bot not the Father and the Son nor the "fulness" of their gospel.

Outer Darkness-Type of Hell where neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Ghost visit)

Those who live here don't accept the Father, the Son nor the Holy Ghost, but reject all three, by denying them.

Where are you getting this from?

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Yes, absolutely....

For instance I see the three degrees of glory and outer darkness this way in simple terms, but there is obviously more to it than this....

Example of a simplified version of beliefs among those in these spheres of existence.

Celestial (highest degree of glory where the Father and Son live)

Those who live here accept the Father, the Son and the "fullness" of their gospel along with the Holy Ghost.

Terrestrial-(middle degree of glory where Christ visits, but the Father does not)

Those who live here accept Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, but not the Father neither His "fullness".

Telestial-(lowest degree of glory where the Holy Ghost visits, but not the Father and the Son)

Those who live here accept the Holy Ghost, bot not the Father and the Son nor the "fulness" of their gospel.

Outer Darkness-Type of Hell where neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Ghost visit)

Those who live here don't accept the Father, the Son nor the Holy Ghost, but reject all three, by denying them.

i'm glad i came to this realization not to long ago and it seem that i was the only one, beside my parents and a couple of other people... but in the seam of thing it felt i went off on a tangent of thought...

thanks

 

[FFH]

Where are you getting this from?

My head....It's just the way I see it simplied, but in know way am I saying this is all that's required to enter into each respective kingdom. We need to refer to Doctrine and Covenants for more in depth answers, such as section 76 and 138...

This is why I post so many scriptures because it's easy to get too far off from our doctrine, but in this case I feel I'm not off in what I previously posted,.

Does it make sense to you ????

For instance

Celestial
We as LDS pray to Heavenly Father and accept His fullness, or the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, We accept all three beings in the trinity, which is a first big step in obtaining the Celestial kingdom.

Terrestrial
Many other denominations pray only to Jesus Christ. Have you noticed that ???? They say things like we pray Lord Jesus that you will such and such... They address Jesus Christ when praying and talk to Him only and not the Father.. I believe that these accept Jesus Chirst and His gospel but not the "fullness" of the Father or the "fullness" of the gospel....

Telestial
Then there are those of course who pray, such as Muslims, to a being, but not the Father nor the Son, Jesus Christ. Remember we have to accept the Son in order to accept the Father, which for instance the Muslims do not.... They don't accept the Son and His sacrifice and therefore by default it's impossible for them to accept the Father. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father but by me"

These types of believers fit into the Telestial catagory. They accept the Holy Ghost (don't deny him) but don't pray to, or accept, the Father or the Son.

Outer Darkness
These deny the Holy Ghost the Son and the Father and pray to no being but worship, and do the work of, the devil and his angels.....

 

[FFH]

i'm glad i came to this realization not to long ago and it seem that i was the only one, beside my parents and a couple of other people... but in the seam of thing it felt i went off on a tangent of thought...

thanks

yeah, you seem to think along the same lines as me....

 

[FFH]

Where are you getting this from?

I have thoruoughly studied the four standard works of the church and at a certain point it all seems to come together and make sense.

For instance another way I see these three kingdoms and Outer Darkness is this

This earth is a mortal Telestial sphere (houses all people including those who will eventually go to outer darkness), which will soon become an immortal Terrestrial sphere (houses all who have at least accepted Jesus Christ when He returns to earth).

In other words this mortal Telestial sphere will become an immortal and Terrestrial world, when Jesus Christ returns to earth to set up His kingdom, at which time all those who do not accept Jesus Christ will then be taken off the earth and spend 1000 years in Hell paying for their own sins, but will be redeemed at the end of the 1000 years, to inherit an immortal Telestial world, except those who have denied the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ, at which time they will be sent to Outer Darknes, a Hell of a different kind I suppose, because the Doctrine and Covenants is not clear as to what type of punishment those who go there experience other than we can assume it's obviously a dark and miserable place with little or no light...

Also at the end of the 1000 year period those not accepting the Father and His "fullness" (the fullness of the gospel) will be taken off the earth to inherit an immortal Terrestrial world apart from the Father and the Son, at which time the earth will become an immortal Celestial world in which the Father and the Son will dwell among us.....

 

[Comprehend]

I have thoruoughly studied the four standard works of the church and at a certain point it all seems to come together and make sense.

after having studied the scriptures you would say that to enter into the celestial kingdom only requires belief in God, Jesus, and the Spirit?

What do you say about section 88? Also, if you have been to the temple, what about all of that?

 

[FFH]

after having studied the scriptures you would say that to enter into the celestial kingdom only requires belief in God, Jesus, and the Spirit?

What do you say about section 88? Also, if you have been to the temple, what about all of that?

If you read my earlier posts thoroughly I specifically said this is not all that's required to enter into these kingdoms. Of course I accept section 88 and any other AND ALL scriptures which deal with this subject.....I'm related to Hyrum Smith and Joseph F. Smith who recorded section 138 of the D&C which deals with this subject.

Your taking what I say our of context. I'm only touching on one or two aspects of the qualifications required to enter into each respective kingdom....Repenting of sins and obeying God's laws are all obviously required to enter into the Celestial kingdom, not to mention redeeming our dead and missionary work.. I've strived to do all these things throughout my life, but at times and for lengths of time have failed.

We all struggle with doing ALL that's required of us as LDS members, and there are many things I fall short in such as living the commandments 100 %, failing to go to the temple regularly, failing to get to church every week, etc. the list goes on and on, but we have to look at all the good we've done so far....

Earlier I was merely mentioning one specific requirement with respect to each kingdom so those not familiar with our faith might get a grasp of why we believe in several kingdoms and not just heaven and hell...

Edit: If you set verying degrees of righteousness and sin aside for a momoent, it all comes down to who we worship and what principles we accept ...

 

[Comprehend]

If you read my earlier posts thoroughly I specifically said this is not all that's required to enter into these kingdoms. Of course I accept section 88 and any other AND ALL scriptures which deal with this subject.....I'm related to Hyrum Smith and Joseph F. Smith who recorded section 138 of the D&C which deals with this subject.

Your takine what I say our of context. I'm only touching on one or two aspects of the qualifications required to enter into each respective kingdom....Repenting of sins and obeying God's laws are all obviously required to enter into the Celestial kingdom, not to mention redeeming our dead and missionary work.. I've strived to do all these things throughout my life, but at times and for lengths of time have failed.

We all struggle with doing ALL that's required of us as LDS members, and there are many things I fall short in such as living the commandments 100 %, failing to go to the temple regularly, failing to get to church every week, etc. the list goes on and on, but we have to look at all the good we've done so far....

Earlier I was merely mentioning one specific requirement with respect to each kingdom so those not familiar with our faith might get a grasp of why we believe in several kingdoms and not just heaven and hell...

ok. but they were requirements that you made up, and then you argued and gave examples to say that for instance muslims would go to the Telestial kingdom based upon your criteria. Do you not really believe that?

 

[FFH]

Doctrine and Covenants 137 also deals with this subject

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desires of their hearts.

I would be a fool to believe that just believing in God would get me into the Celestial kingdom, because much more is required of us but this scripture also says we will be judged according to our desires, for instance if we fall short but did the best we could we will surely be accepted into the Celestial kingdom.

 

[FFH]

ok. but they were requirements that you made up, and then you argued and gave examples to say that for instance muslims would go to the Telestial kingdom based upon your criteria. Do you not really believe that?

Do you honestly think that a person who keeps all the commandments but yet does not believe in Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father will enter into the Celestial kindgom ????

I didn't make up the rules, it's all there in scripture....I only gave one example of one basic rule which defines who inherits these kingdoms and Outer Darkness.

Likewise just because I beleive in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father doesn't automatically qualify me for the Celestial kingdom. I must repent, be baptised and be confirmed, endowed and married in an LDS temple, which I have done all of this.

Endure to the end would be the next step. Take up our cross and follow the Lord, which is to deny ourselves of all ungodliness....Get rid of ALL sins...

My four generation chart is complete as is my wifes, I pay tithing, keep the commandments, etc....These are all required no doubt....

 

[Comprehend]

Do you honestly think that a person who keeps all the commandments but yet does not believe in Jesus Christ or Heavenly Father will enter into the Celestial kindgom ????

no, I didn't say where muslims would go at all. you did. I was surprised you thought you knew.

I didn't make up the rules, it's all there in scripture....I only gave one example of one basic rule which defines who inherits these kingdoms and Outer Darkness.

Actually, you did make up rules. that is what made me ask you my first question.

Like wise just because I beleive in Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father doesn't automatically qualify me for the Celestial kingdom. I must repent, be baptised and be confirmed, endowed and married in an LDS temple, which I have done all of this.

Endure to the end would be the next step. Take up our cross and follow the Lord, which is to deny ourselves of all ungodliness....Get rid of ALL sins...

My four generation chart is complete as is my wifes, I pay tithing, keep the commandments, etc....These are all required no doubt....

a four generation chart is required to get into the celestial kingdom? I don't remember reading that.

 

[Comprehend]

Doctrine and Covenants 137 also deals with this subject

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desires of their hearts.

I would be a fool to believe that just believing in God would get me into the Celestial kingdom, because much more is required of us but this scripture also says we will be judged according to our desires, for instance if we fall short but did the best we could we will surely be accepted into the Celestial kingdom.

Fall short of what?

The best one can do is perfection and none of us do that so what do you mean?

ok. that statement drives me nuts. So you would say that God makes a bunch of rules and then says oh, what the heck, you tried hard?

Alma 42:22
22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

 

[FFH]

ok. but they were requirements that you made up?

I didn't make them up, I can back up what I've said with scripture...

For instance, paraphrasing "No man comes to the Father but by the Son"

We cannot live with the Father in the Celestial kingdom without accepting His son...

Also those who accept Jesus Christ, but not the Father and the fullness of the Gospel will not inherit a Celestial reward, but will inherit a Terrestrial world......

and those who don't accept Jesus Christ will not inherit a higher degree than the Telestial kingdom....For they will pay for their own sins in hell, but will then be redeemed from hell to inherit the Telestial kingdom....

Those who reject/deny the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ will be cast into Outer Darkness....

This can all be proven scripturally....

I'm still at work so I'm heading home now.....I will link scriptures to this later...

 

[FFH]

Thanks for the debate Comprehend. I want to contiinue but need to head home so the wife doesn't worry...I'll respond to what you've said in about a half hour when I get home...

 

[Comprehend]

I didn't make them up, I can back up what I've said with scripture...

For instance, paraphrasing "No man comes to the Father but by the Son"

We cannot live with the Father in the Celestial kingdom without accepting His son...

Also those who accept Jesus Christ, but not the Father and the fullness of the Gospel will not inherit a Celestial reward, but will inherit a Terrestrial world......

and those who don't accept Jesus Christ will not inherit a higher degree than the Telestial kingdom....For they will pay for their own sins in hell, but will then be redeemed from hell to inherit the Telestial kingdom....

Those who reject/deny the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ will be cast into Outer Darkness....

This can all be proven scripturally....

I'm still at work so I'm heading home now.....I will link scriptures to this later...

when I asked you where you were getting your info from you said your head, that would seem to indicate you made it up. Anyway, you are forgetting the question that prompted your answer. Phototaker asked if anyone thought that what someone believed determined where they went. you said "yes absolutely", then gave your list of where someone goes based upon how many of the Godhead they believed. I was just pointing out that it isn't simple belief that determines where you go. no need to link scriptures, I know where you are getting it from.

 

[Comprehend]

Thanks for the debate Comprehend. I want to contiinue but need to head home so the wife doesn't worry...I'll respond to what you've said in about a half hour when I get home...

ok___

 

[FFH]

when I asked you where you were getting your info from you said your head, that would seem to indicate you made it up. Anyway, you are forgetting the question that prompted your answer. Phototaker asked if anyone thought that what someone believed determined where they went. you said "yes absolutely", then gave your list of where someone goes based upon how many of the Godhead they believed. I was just pointing out that it isn't simple belief that determines where you go. no need to link scriptures, I know where you are getting it from.

First their is a belief in something or someone then there is action.

Belief in God will determine our actions... If we believe in God we will naturally try to do His will and not our own. If we don't believe in God we will naturally serve ourselves and miss out on the rewards of Heaven..

This is why I said "absolutely belief determines what kingdom we'll enter into" yet a more accurate statement would be "absolutely belief plays a big role in determining what kingdom we'll enter into".

So your right, belief alone cannot determine which kingdom we'll enter into but it is a big factor in my opinion....I know we shouldn't get into the trap of thinking all we have to do is believe, because we both know that works are required, but the Lord also looks upon the heart and sees our desires, if we don't get it all together before we die....

For instance my cousin committed suicide the day before his missionary farewell.... Is he condemned for eternity for committing such a sin ??? I doubt it...Will he be given a chance to repent and change his thought patterns and behaviors, Yes....

God is merciful and will look upon our hearts and will determine our desires and reward us accordingly to both our works and desires to do good. For instance if we didn't get the chance to get it all right here on earth but wanted to keep improving throughout the eternities...God will look at what we've done (works) and then look at what we want to do (desires) and then reward us accordingly.

Remember there are 3 degrees within the Celestial kingdom in which we can continue to progress...

 

[FFH]

Fall short of what?

The best one can do is perfection and none of us do that so what do you mean?

ok. that statement drives me nuts. So you would say that God makes a bunch of rules and then says oh, what the heck, you tried hard?

Romans 3: 23

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[FFH]

a four generation chart is required to get into the celestial kingdom? I don't remember reading that.

We cannot be saved in the Celestial kingdom without saving our dead first. This is scriptural and is a commandment given to us to us from our prophets past and present, specifically they have told us to do at least 4 generaltions or at least all the ancestors who have been deceased less than 100 years, because of laws which prohibit the LDS church from accessing these records and submitting them to the temple although people do it all the time, I mean they submit names of people who have not been deceased for more than a hundred years. But anyway we should not rely on the church to do our ancestors, if we do that they may never get done. They are already swamped with names as it is...

 

[Snowbear]

FFH and jonny - Thank you! for taking the time to answer and recognizing that I really was asking questions to learn.

Ask me your questions Snowbear, you seem to have asked some good questions along the same lines I tend to think....

OK. I may just do that... So far you are one of the few (that reminds me - I haven't seen Shadow lately ) who recognize I'm not trying to attack the mormon religion by asking questions about the church's teachings. I really, sincerely appreciate that.

Yeah, it just seemed like there was more he/she wanted to know which we could talk about, that's all...

There was. And a couple more questions came up after reading your debate with comprehend. But it's just not important enough to me to put up with the snide remarks and condescention, which in the past have only led to more blatant ad hominems.

I answered your sugar question... go back and read my response again...

Yes you did. It brought up a couple more questions, but in the interest of keeping the peace, I decided to drop it as it was obvious my questions are being taken as a challenge or possibly an attack on the mormon teachings. Obviously and unfortunately, my next line of questions ended up raising hackles as well.
Meanwhile - this expanded answer actually answered one of those questions:

Sugar is not a whole food, which is covered in our health code, but it wouldn't be in their specifically because the Lord wants us to use our heads and figure it out ourselves, and it would stand to reason that we should avoid it as much as possible, although Reeses' Peanut Butter Cups are a big indulgence of mine, at least I'm getting some peanut butter (something healthy) with my sugar and chocolate to balance it all out... But I agree sugar should be avoided, especially straight sugar on cereal etc.. I've had some crazy dreams, sort of felt like I was halucinating in my dreams, after eating too much chocolate just before going to sleep, that it was enough to make me cut way back..the dreams freaked me out...Twizzlers cuase these halucinating type dreams the worst.. I won't touch a Twizzler...They are demon possessed

I like the sour twizzlers

Did you notice what looked liked "romaji" (english Japanese writing) under his/her username ??? it says "Nita Okhata" possibly Japanese do you think ??? I know there is a missing vowel or an extra consenant but close enough to something Japanese...

It's a Choctaw (Native American) transliteration of Ursus Maritimus (aka Polar Bear aka Seagoing Bear) and also happens to be the name of my little boat
As far as I know, it's spelled correctly as it came out of the Choctaw-English dictionary my dad has...