Are you a Zionist

[rosends]

You bring up a valid point about that being a very sacred location to the Jews. Could you explain more about the sacredness of the site to Jews from a Jewish perspective.

I do indeed know what I've read, but to hear it from an Orthodox Jew is important for everyone, especially those who believe somehow Jews defile a place by making pilgrimage to a place sacred to Jews before Christianity, long before Islam.

Thanks in advance.

there is a whole lot to cover so I might just find good resources and not try to reinvent the wheel.

Judaism sees the site of the temple mount as a locus of spirituality. It is the site from which the world was created, the site of the binding of Isaac and the site of the holy of holies in the temple complex. The mount on a larger scale, because it was the base for both temples, became a central religious location for ritual purposes and a goal of thrice yearly pilgrimage for an entire nation.

For a more detailed discussion of holiness as it relates to the city of Jerusalem, try

What's the Truth About…Har HaBayit? - Jewish Action

MISCONCEPTION: Many religious Jews do not visit Har HaBayit (the Temple Mount) today. This is because we are all presumed to be in a state of tumat met

jewishaction.com

 

[Bthoth]

there is a whole lot to cover so I might just find good resources and not try to reinvent the wheel.

Judaism sees the site of the temple mount as a locus of spirituality. It is the site from which the world was created, the site of the binding of Isaac and the site of the holy of holies in the temple complex. The mount on a larger scale, because it was the base for both temples, became a central religious location for ritual purposes and a goal of thrice yearly pilgrimage for an entire nation.

For a more detailed discussion of holiness as it relates to the city of Jerusalem, try

What's the Truth About…Har HaBayit? - Jewish Action

MISCONCEPTION: Many religious Jews do not visit Har HaBayit (the Temple Mount) today. This is because we are all presumed to be in a state of tumat met

jewishaction.com

You just confirmed idolatry.

ps..... the location is not the 'holy of holies'

 

[rosends]

You just confirmed idolatry.

ps..... the location is not the 'holy of holies'

you don't know what idolatry is and know nothing of the holy of holies.

 

[Bthoth]

you don't know what idolatry is and know nothing of the holy of holies.

I see what you are suggesting, only you know what idolatry is. Strange that both old testament and new condemn idolatry but only you know the truth of what idolatry is. Begging for jerusalem in itself is idolatry.

And no one comprehends what is holy but you?

That bias is what is wrong. You expect to be right in all concepts.

"THE NAME" of god, is the holy of holies and you DO NOT have it. SUre you have labels.

There is no place on the earth that is so special that human beings should be oppressed nor be venerated as a place of god.

And begging for a temple on the mount, is idolatry! Which should be condemned by even you.

 

[rosends]

I see what you are suggesting, only you know what idolatry is.

I don't recall saying "only." Plenty of people know what idolatry is. You just aren't one of them.

 

[Bthoth]

I don't recall saying "only." Plenty of people know what idolatry is. You just aren't one of them.

Idolatry

"""extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone."""

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”


Here is a perfect example of idolatry:

As long as the Jewish spirit is yearning deep in the heart, With eyes turned toward the East, looking toward Zion, Then our hope - the two-thousand-year-old hope - will not be lost: To be a free people in our land, The land of Zion and Jerusalem.


That is idolarry for the city of blood!

 

[rosends]

Idolatry

"""extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone."""

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”


Here is a perfect example of idolatry:

As long as the Jewish spirit is yearning deep in the heart, With eyes turned toward the East, looking toward Zion, Then our hope - the two-thousand-year-old hope - will not be lost: To be a free people in our land, The land of Zion and Jerusalem.


That is idolarry for the city of blood!

I note that the quote you present never mentions anything about worshiping the city as if it was God. So you fail.

Again...

 

[Bthoth]

I note that the quote you present never mentions anything about worshiping the city as if it was God. So you fail.

Again...

extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone

The definition does not use the word 'worshiping'.

But you require words to be written as you want them.

 

[rosends]

extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone

The definition does not use the word 'worshiping'.

But you require words to be written as you want them.

oh, so admiring anything is idolatry? LOL.

You wrote "idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. "

or did you forget that YOU wrote that.

 

[Bthoth]

oh, so admiring anything is idolatry? LOL.

You wrote "idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. "

or did you forget that YOU wrote that.

I did not write it, i copied it, from another location.


Here:
What are acts of idolatry?

idolatry, in Judaism and Christianity, the worship of someone or something other than God as though it were God. The first of the biblical Ten Commandments prohibits idolatry: “You shall have no other gods before me.”Nov 3, 2023


Here is from the same sourcing:Several forms of idolatry have been distinguished. Gross, or overt, idolatry consists of explicit acts of reverence addressed to a person or an object

Idolatry for jerusalem is still idolatry.




But oppressing human being for that location is even worse!

 

[rosends]

To anyone reading who has any questions about anything I have written, or wishes to pursue a healthy and informed conversation regarding these topics, please let me know. Constantly pointing out one person's ignorance and errors gets boring. If that person wishes to continue spouting untruths and misstatements mired in ignorance then I guess they will just let that go. Responding to incursions and attacks is, apparently, frowned upon so the attacks continue. Sort of like a metaphor...המבין יבין

 

[Flankerl]

For example: zionist is not judiasm!

Good for you; judaism is not zionism.

judaism is a good account of personal responsibility.

Zionism is about a central location, an authority.

That is true, if you completely ignore the entire Tanakh.

 

[dybmh]

That is true, if you completely ignore the entire Tanakh.

Yeah... That's the consistent pattern.

 

[Bthoth]

That is true, if you completely ignore the entire Tanakh.

Is that the same as Israelis ignoring the commandments and imposing oppression just for the idolatry of a mount with no temple on it?

Why did you write a reply trying to insult me?

Do you have any dialogue to address?

What is true, is idolatry for that location (Tsion) is wrong in both rational thinking and tanakh. Imposing oppression and violence for the site is why the horrid attacks of 10/7.

How could anyone support a state that allows these kind of things to occur, over and over again?

 

[Flankerl]

Is that the same as Israelis ignoring the commandments and imposing oppression just for the idolatry of a mount with no temple on it?

Strawman.

Why did you write a reply trying to insult me?

Report it if you think there's an insult.

Do you have any dialogue to address?

Idk, have you ever read the Tanakh?

What is true, is idolatry for that location (Tsion) is wrong in both rational thinking and tanakh. Imposing oppression and violence for the site is why the horrid attacks of 10/7.

lmao the Hasmoneans would've purged the Temple Mount from the non-Jews years ago if they were around today.

So count yourself lucky.

How could anyone support a state that allows these kind of things to occur, over and over again?

Easy. Am Israel chai.

 

[Bthoth]

Strawman.

Sure if you ignore the torah.

Israelis ignoring the commandments and imposing oppression just for the idolatry of a mount is why the prophecy of EZEK 22.

Read it.

Report it if you think there's an insult.

You can have your own guilt.

Idk, have you ever read the Tanakh?

Sure and why I understand the material.

lmao the Hasmoneans would've purged the Temple Mount from the non-Jews years ago if they were around today.

That civil war of hasmoneans is why the romans took it so easily. Fighting between scribes and pharisee is perhaps why you defend idolatry over keeping the commandments.

History of Hasmonean state
Kenneth Atkinson (University of Northern Iowa)

file:///home/chronos/u-815267c4aaf508e526b041d7cfc34210dd21c58f/MyFiles/Downloads/1_Atkinson_Scripta-Judaica-Cracoviensia_14_.pdf

So count yourself lucky.

I am here on this side of the lake with the majority of Jews. I am very lucky. Over here, the majority are learning that israel is not as good as many wish to believe.

Easy. Am Israel chai.

יז וַיְהִי דְבַר-יְהוָה, אֵלַי לֵאמֹר.	17 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying:
יח בֶּן-אָדָם, הָיוּ-לִי בֵית-יִשְׂרָאֵל לסוג לְסִיג: כֻּלָּם נְחֹשֶׁת וּבְדִיל וּבַרְזֶל וְעוֹפֶרֶת, בְּתוֹךְ כּוּר--סִגִים כֶּסֶף, הָיוּ. {ס}	18 'Son of man, the house of Israel is become dross unto Me; all of them are brass and tin and iron and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are the dross of silver

This way there is no ambiguity.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

@Bthoth, I would say that I don't know why you seem to obsess so much over Judaism's association with the Temple Mount while ignoring Islam's equally "idolatrous" (according to your misuse of the word) claims on it. Except, I think I do know why.

 

[Bthoth]

@Bthoth, I would say that I don't know why you seem to obsess so much over Judaism's association with the Temple Mount while ignoring Islam's equally "idolatrous" (according to your misuse of the word) claims on it. Except, I think I do know why.

View attachment 86090

The people of today are not responsible for what happened 1400 yrs ago.

Do you live in israel? In settlements of west bank, or territories identified as illegal occupation within palestine?

Otherwise, the picture means nothing.

To address your comment. That location is the reason why israel exists in palestine and not some tropical island with the streets paved in gold (with the amount of money spent terrorizing palestinians).

Zion, (psion), the mount, is city of blood (jerusalem) of national anthem, clearly an idolatry. Not concerned with all of the denial and side tracking, that the supporters of the illegal occupation come up with. That problem is why the violence started and continues and until it is addressed and stopped, it can only get worse. That red line that the ayatollah set back in the 70's is why israel is so affraid to just take it outright, and now that apartheid state expects US to fight iran.

UNESCO made the site a Heritage designation, israel cannot take on the whole world even with the threat of samson option.

""The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, b'rerat shimshon) is the name that some military analysts and authors have given to Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel."""

Samson Option - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Think for a bit, if the other team is willing to strap on a bomb and blow themselves up, eventually they will get a nuke. Israel will not make it, if the situation is not stopped. and it is impossible to take that site and beg for a messiah to make everyone forgive.............

 

[Samael_Khan]

Is that the same as Israelis ignoring the commandments and imposing oppression just for the idolatry of a mount with no temple on it?

Why did you write a reply trying to insult me?

Do you have any dialogue to address?

What is true, is idolatry for that location (Tsion) is wrong in both rational thinking and tanakh. Imposing oppression and violence for the site is why the horrid attacks of 10/7.

How could anyone support a state that allows these kind of things to occur, over and over again?

I think you have the idea of idolatry wrong. Or maybe that according to the tanakh God disproves of it.

God promised the patriarchs the land and he commanded that they take it away through violence, genociding the canaanites to acquire it. There are verses in the bible where the writer expresses their longing for zion. They had to revere the holy of holies, which was where the tabernacle was, which had power.

Something else that god permitted which seems quite like idolatry was bowing before a serpent on a pole statue in order for the israelites to get healed from snake poison.

I get why you think what the poster said expressed idolatry, but it isnt against what god permits in the tanakh. It is actually encouraged. In fact, in the bible, stuff like idolatry and god being the only true god is more complicated than most people lead us to believe.

 

[Samael_Khan]

there is a whole lot to cover so I might just find good resources and not try to reinvent the wheel.

Judaism sees the site of the temple mount as a locus of spirituality. It is the site from which the world was created, the site of the binding of Isaac and the site of the holy of holies in the temple complex. The mount on a larger scale, because it was the base for both temples, became a central religious location for ritual purposes and a goal of thrice yearly pilgrimage for an entire nation.

For a more detailed discussion of holiness as it relates to the city of Jerusalem, try

What's the Truth About…Har HaBayit? - Jewish Action

MISCONCEPTION: Many religious Jews do not visit Har HaBayit (the Temple Mount) today. This is because we are all presumed to be in a state of tumat met

jewishaction.com

There are a lot of words in the article i unfortunately do not understand....

As a matter of interest, what is the rationale behind the temple mount being the site from which the world was created? I assume you mean that was where the garden of eden was?