Are you a Lover or a Sinner?

[psychoslice]

I see wisdom in your words, but not sure I can conclude 'spiritual maturity.' Most likely it is merely acceptance of the human condition (and the responsibility thereof).

Yes you are also right, I just said spiritual maturity for those who are religious, but I am glad you picked up on it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I would say God is capable of unconditional love and shows it in cases like Hosea who is told to marry and love a prostitute. We love responsively. I think God loves us as we are but too much to leave us as we are and provides grace to change us.



see --> Hosea and his family, a portrait of grace

 

[Enoch07]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

Well we are all sinners. Every single human thats ever been or will be. Are we capable of unconditonal love as sinners? Yes, but most of us fail in that task. Being saved has nothing to do with us as humans unconditionally loving God, each other, or even our children. Being saved is about forgiveness and surrendering to God's will. And to the last question. What do we need to be saved from? We need to be saved from ourselves.

 

[allfoak]

Well we are all sinners. Every single human thats ever been or will be. Are we capable of unconditonal love as sinners? Yes, but most of us fail in that task. Being saved has nothing to do with us as humans unconditionally loving God, each other, or even our children. Being saved is about forgiveness and surrendering to God's will. And to the last question. What do we need to be saved from? We need to be saved from ourselves.

Failing at the task of unconditional love is not the same as not having the ability to do it.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally then what we have within us can save us from ourselves.
We don't need anything but to come to know who we are.
This idea that because i fail i am a failure is ridiculous.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

I'm a lover AND I'm a sinner, playing my music in the sun.

I'm a joker. I'm a smoker. I'm a midnight toker. I get my loving on the run.



(Didn't anyone else's mind go there when they saw the thread title, or was it just me?)

 

[allfoak]

@9-10ths_Penguin

I let my threads go where they will.
Yes, you will hear a lot of references to song titles.
It gets peoples attention.

 

[Prestor John]

Can't I be both?

 

[Fool]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

with Love all things are possible. sin can only be present; when love isn't

 

[Scott C.]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

God said we should love God with all of our heart and love our neighbor as ourselves. If we do both of those, we're in good shape with GOD, IMO.

 

[Enoch07]

Failing at the task of unconditional love is not the same as not having the ability to do it.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally then what we have within us can save us from ourselves.
We don't need anything but to come to know who we are.
This idea that because i fail i am a failure is ridiculous.

Maybe you misunderstood. I said that we are all capable of unconditional love.

Are we capable of unconditonal love as sinners? Yes, but most of us fail in that task.

We are able to unconditionally love, but that does not equate to being able to save ourselves. Not sure if you mean physically or spiritually, but it doesnt matter. Our *** is grass either way, without faith. Spiritual: Some of us have faith in a higher power in hopes of redemption in the end. Physical: Nothing can save us, faith or not. There is no Utopia for us in flesh bodies.

 

[Henry :)]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

Hello Allfoak!
I think your questions is really interesting, but has quite a few issues. I'll just work through in order if that's okay.

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?

The first thing I'd like to point out is that you've presented this problem as a true dichotomy (either (a) unconditional love, or (b) hopeless sinners) whereas actually there is potentially a whole spectrum of other options which your question doesn't allow for.
Secondly, I don't think unconditional love is necessarily a virtuous character trait. And I do feel the need to point out that love is not a choice, and in the particular case, a parent does not choose to love or not to love their child. This is actually a well-documented fact.

If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

So, I think your presupposition of the ability to love unconditionally is not justified.
I don't understand what you mean when you equate unconditional love with the power of salvation. What do you mean when you say 'the power of salvation'?

Be lovely to hear your thoughts.

Henry

 

[allfoak]

i will address the salvation issue but the parent question seems a little strange to me so i will just let you have your opinion on that one.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
The power of salvation is unconditional love.

 

[idav]

Is a parent capable of unconditional love or are we just wretched, hopeless sinners in need of saving?
I am going to presume that people believe that everyone is capable of unconditional love.
If we have the ability to love unconditionally, then what do we need to be saved from?
It seems to me that unconditional love is the power of salvation.
This power is within us, or....
perhaps we are just wretched sinners in need of saving.

The law is sin and the law was to be put away and replaced with love.