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Not Catholic teaching martha. We are born into original sin and live in a state of concupisense (a proclivity towards sin)... only by the grace of God can we live a moral life.martha said:Would God create his children with a desire to sin or is it taught by man. :help:
Boy this is a good thread. I think I am going with the "taught by man" theory.
Lintu said:"In some communities, dancing is sinful. A person who then decides to dance may feel shame for going against the community belief, even if s/he doesn't think s/he's doing anything wrong. The shame feeling is similar to the feeling you get when you're doing something you know is wrong, though in this case, I wouldn't say the person was sinning."
Good point, so I imagine that you believe that those who decide to kill must have a moment of that same reflection, ie; is it wrong or sin and still make the decision to take another life? Is that not sin? It is frankly, a matter of ones own conscience, ones own choice. There are people in this world who truly believe they are without sin when they kill as long as they believe that they are propagating their faith for the good of their brethren. It doesn't matter if innocents are taken, as long as the point is made. All of us who claim a religious connection should look back on that religions history. Most of us would be appalled at the actions of our predecessors. Do we really believe that God would enjoy us taking the lives of others in His name? To take life is sinful against if nothing else, humanity! God did not create us with sin to perpetrate these atrocities upon our fellow man. Original sin does not exist. We were born and given choice, it is we who choose sin.
Joyfully in Jesus,
Martha
The only thing this provides evidence of is ineffectual parenting.Sunstone writes: Does the behavior of young children provide evidence that we are born sinful? For instance: Young children can be astonishingly selfish or cruel. In the original post, the author of that post asserted that the behavior and attitudes of children was evidence for the notion that we are born sinful. What do you think of that?
This is maybe a tad off-topic, but I think it relates well enough.Mary was the only human born without sin.
Exactly. I don't know about you, but my mother ran a daycare at our home, so I constantly experienced child behavior. When one kid had the ball, you could assure yourself that another would come and hit the baby, then steal the ball.Sunstone said:Young children can be astonishingly selfish or cruel.
I disagree. My definition of sin is a breach of moral values. I definitely see a child hitting another child as a qualification for sin.Lightkeeper said:There's a difference between needing to learn social skills and sin.
martha said:Good point, so I imagine that you believe that those who decide to kill must have a moment of that same reflection, ie; is it wrong or sin and still make the decision to take another life? Is that not sin? It is frankly, a matter of ones own conscience, ones own choice. There are people in this world who truly believe they are without sin when they kill as long as they believe that they are propagating their faith for the good of their brethren.
Yes Lintu, what should we call this, perhaps sins with qualifications. How does one address these actions? Compassion, forgiveness and understanding is the key. " Let those among you who are without sin, cast the first stone." Whenever I start to point a finger at someone else's actions, I stop and reflect upon my own behavior at certain times in my life. Then I put that finger down. Another quote is brought to mind. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."Lintu said:l (although I'm not so sure what people think when it's reflex, self-defense, instantaneous urge out of nowhere). I guess the reason I believe this way is that there are people who are mentally ill or mentally handicapped that do not understand that they've done something wrong in killing someone. I do not think that they have sinned, because they did not understand the gravity of their actions. I'm not sure what to call it though...they have definitely done something wrong, but not necessarily through their own moral lapse.
Well, I don't want to post the entire teaching, but I will post some important points and I suggest that you educate yourself by reading the Catechism.martha said:Would you please define for all who come to this place, what the catholic definition of original sin is? I think it would be helpful to all, in regards to continuing this discussion. Give a little more detail and keep it simple, please. In plain english so to speak. It would be beneficial to me personally, Scott to hear it explained again.
Thanking you in advance I remain,
Joyfully in Jesus,
Martha
Come on C.... we've covered this before..... the Bible is not the only source for truth in our faith.Ceridwen018 said:This is maybe a tad off-topic, but I think it relates well enough.
Anyhow, it's always bugged me that there is nothing in the bible which speaks of mary being born without sin. Like purgatory, limbo, etc., the Immaculate Conception seems to be a purely Catholic invention.
Yeah I know that, but why don't other protestant denominations come up with their own little ideas? In fact, that's why most of them left the Catholic church, is it not? Because they diasagreed with all of this non-biblical stuff?The Apostles and followers of Christ were teaching the faith well before the Gospels were written and it was the Catholic Church that decided what books to put in and which to keep out.
Oy veh.Purely Catholic invention? You betcha. We can do that, Christ said so.
The entire Protestant faith for the most part has come up with their own "little ideas".... sola scriptura, sola fide..... all inventions of man..... and there is a new Protestant off shoot being born every 23 seconds it seems all claiming to know the truth!Ceridwen018 said:Yeah I know that, but why don't other protestant denominations come up with their own little ideas? In fact, that's why most of them left the Catholic church, is it not? Because they diasagreed with all of this non-biblical stuff?
Again C, you are going by the mistaken assumption that all truth comes from the Bible.... Scripture and Tradition are of equal importance.Basically, I don't see why all of the extra stuff is necessary. Why is it necessary for people to believe that Mary was immacualtely conceived? Why is it necessary for people to believe in purgatory? If these things were so important, wouldn't god have put them in the bible?