Are Vegans better for the environment than meat eaters?

[Secret Chief]

Eggs are meat???
Meat means animal flesh I think.

 

[Estro Felino]

I realize that. How are we going to make the population that size before we destroy the atmosphere and environment?

Meat consumption should be reduced, agreed. I just think we should shun it altogether for the betterment of both humans, animals, and the environment.

It's not too late. Reducing the population is very simple: births shall not outnumber deaths. so...promoting one-child families is the only way out

 

[Bunyip]

Eggs are meat???
Meat means animal flesh I think.

Eggs are an animal product as opposed to vegetable, that is all I meant.

 

[Bunyip]

But you aren't killing an animal to eat the egg. It's basically a waste product. How is that the same, morally speaking?

It's the same because 50% of the siblings of the chook that layed your egg were killed, in order for you to eat an egg - chickens must be hatched, 50% will be slaughtered. An egg is not a watse product, I can't believe you would think that way. Eggs are a wonderful gift.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's the same because 50% of the siblings of the chook that layed your egg were killed, in order for you to eat an egg - chickens must be hatched, 50% will be slaughtered. An egg is not a watse product, I can't believe you would think that way. Eggs are a wonderful gift.

hem....yes, it is. A hen releases non-fecundated eggs all the time.

 

[Bunyip]

hem....yes, it is. A hen releases non-fecundated eggs all the time.

In order for that egg to exist, 50% of all chickens hatched are killed.

 

[Estro Felino]

In order for that egg to exist, 50% of all chickens hatched are killed.

Honestly. I don't understand what you mean. My aunt has 10 chickens and no rooster. These chickens release some eggs, and my aunt picks them. These are all non-fecundated eggs...because these hens have never mated in their lives.
so...what chickens are killed?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In order for that egg to exist, 50% of all chickens hatched are killed.

For those operations, yes. This does not mean that half of all chickens hatched are killed overall. Eventually most of them will be butchered for meat, but having chickens for eggs does not mean that half of all chickens hatched are killed.

 

[Bunyip]

For those operations, yes. This does not mean that half of all chickens hatched are killed overall. Eventually most of them will be butchered for meat, but having chickens for eggs does not mean that half of all chickens hatched are killed.

Of course it does, half are male and the males are killed at hatching. Half of all chickens are killed at hatching, and most of the other half are killed when they stop laying an egg a day. Of course having chickens for eggs means that chickens must be killed.

 

[Bunyip]

Honestly. I don't understand what you mean. My aunt has 10 chickens and no rooster. These chickens release some eggs, and my aunt picks them. These are all non-fecundated eggs...because these hens have never mated in their lives.
so...what chickens are killed?

When your aunt bought those chickens, half of their generation of hatchlings were killed straight away because they were male. When your aunt's chooks die of old age, the replacements will be the surviving 50% of another generation of hatchlings.

Now I see nothing immoral about eating eggs, I am not a vegetarian. What is surprising to me is that vegetarians appear to like to pretend that for some unfathomable reason eggs are not an animal product,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course it does, half are male and the males are killed at hatching. Half of all chickens are killed at hatching, and most of the other half are killed when they stop laying an egg a day. Of course having chickens for eggs means that chickens must be killed.

No, it doesn't. Not everyone kills male chickens just because they were hatched as male. Many people consider that wasteful. Not everyone views having livestock as something that must be maximally efficient and bring a maximum profit.

 

[Estro Felino]

When your aunt bought those chickens, half of their generation of hatchlings were killed straight away because they were male. When your aunt's chooks die of old age, the replacements will be the surviving 50% of another generation of hatchlings.

you know...it's not my fault if on this planet there are insensitive people who are able to kill little yellow chicks in cold blood.
Humans have definitely lost their humanity...because there are people who raise roosters (lots of them are castrated in my country) and may buy these male chicks.

 

[Madhuri]

It's the same because 50% of the siblings of the chook that layed your egg were killed, in order for you to eat an egg - chickens must be hatched, 50% will be slaughtered. An egg is not a watse product, I can't believe you would think that way. Eggs are a wonderful gift.

Fair argument.
As for an egg being a waste product, I guess it's a matter of perspective. But from the chicken's perspective, it's as much of a waste product as is a human females menstruation...

 

[Bunyip]

Fair argument.
As for an egg being a waste product, I guess it's a matter of perspective. But from the chicken's perspective, it's as much of a waste product as is a human females menstruation...

That would be true if we bred millions of women solely for the purpose of producing eggs. Remember that these chickens are bred to produce egss, egg production is their intended purpose. That is why I contest them being a waste product, they are the reason we have chickens.
As a meat eater I do see that I have a deep ethical responsibility towards the animals I eat - and within that framework chickens and eggs are included within that responsibility.

That said, I do understand the distinction some vegetarians make regarding eggs - it just does seem rather arbitrsry to me. Thankyou for discussing it with me.

 

[Bunyip]

you know...it's not my fault if on this planet there are insensitive people who are able to kill little yellow chicks in cold blood.
Humans have definitely lost their humanity...because there are people who raise roosters (lots of them are castrated in my country) and may buy these male chicks.

I do understand your sentiment, but must admit that it is somewhat alien to my experience. Death is tye price of life, all things must die and I can not judge the relative values of plants, animals and funghi in that respect. To eat meat, to kill animals is not a negative in my worldview - just a part of life. I do feel compassion and responsibility but clearing a forrest to plant pumpkins kills animals just as effectively as does trapping them. I feel no shame at being a natural omnivore, I am the top of the food chain.
For any animals we do exploit , we must take as best care as we possbily can - but I do not see the killing of a chicken or of a carrot as being necessarily unethical or immoral. Cotton production for example is terribly damaging to the environment, but kangaroo farming is not. Vegetable production and meat production can both damage the environment.

 

[Chakra]

I do understand your sentiment, but must admit that it is somewhat alien to my experience. Death is tye price of life, all things must die and I can not judge the relative values of plants, animals and funghi in that respect. To eat meat, to kill animals is not a negative in my worldview - just a part of life. I do feel compassion and responsibility but clearing a forrest to plant pumpkins kills animals just as effectively as does trapping them. I feel no shame at being a natural omnivore, I am the top of the food chain.
For any animals we do exploit , we must take as best care as we possbily can - but I do not see the killing of a chicken or of a carrot as being necessarily unethical or immoral. Cotton production for example is terribly damaging to the environment, but kangaroo farming is not. Vegetable production and meat production can both damage the environment.

We already have enough land to grow vegetables and fruits. We don't need anymore. If anything, it is meat production which will clear up a forest. Just look at Brazil.

Also, just because we are at the top of the food chain does not mean we need to prey on our animal brothers and sisters. The compassionate and "human" thing to do is to minimize suffering and to not encourage it.

 

[Secret Chief]

What is surprising to me is that vegetarians appear to like to pretend that for some unfathomable reason eggs are not an animal product,

I've not come across that. A vegetarian knows what an egg is. The dietary choice of a vegetarian is not to eat flesh, whether meat, poultry or fish. A vegan chooses not to consume from other categories on top of this.

 

[metis]

I've not come across that. A vegetarian knows what an egg is. The dietary choice of a vegetarian is not to eat flesh, whether meat, poultry or fish. A vegan chooses not to consume from other categories on top of this.

Yes, and a great may vegetarians also consume milk products.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yes, and a great may vegetarians also consume milk products.

Yes, probably most; including myself. Vegetarians that don't tend to be vegans.

 

[metis]

Yes, probably most; including myself. Vegetarians that don't tend to be vegans.

Ditto, even though I will on occasion eat meat.