Are there any Muslims here that support apostasy should be punished?

[sooda]

From the Congressional report on 9/11

History of Wahhabism.2 Muhammad bin Abd al Wahhab, whose name is the source of the word “Wahhabi,” founded a religious movement in the Arabian peninsula during the eighteenth century (1703-1791) that sought to reverse what he perceived as the moral decline of his society. In particular, Abd al Wahhab denounced many popular Islamic beliefs and practices as idolatrous. Ultimately, he encouraged a “return” to the pure and orthodox practice of the “fundamentals” of Islam, as embodied in the Quran and in the life of the Prophet Muhammad. Muhammad bin Saud, the ancestral founder of the modern-day Al Saud dynasty, partnered with Abd al Wahhab to begin the process of unifying disparate tribes in the Arabian Peninsula. Their partnership formed the basis for a close political relationship between their descendants that continues today.

That's accurate and has nothing to do with 9/11. That was Deobandi and MB.

 

[ManSinha]

That's accurate and has nothing to do with 9/11. That was Deobandi and MB.

 

[Firemorphic]

The objective of Wahhab was to get rid of the innovations to Islam introduced............The objective was to simply Islam as it was in the early days.

No, that's what they claim, in their reformation but it's not what they categorically represent.

Their ideology is the poison, the vermin eating away at Sunnism at the moment and has been one of the biggest threats to fellow Shi'i and Sufis alike. They stand for a fascist form of political and social coercion undermining the Sunni world at the moment, fueling the bait of the "terrorists" and one of the biggest threats to the freedom of Shi'i in general. Their poison is the stuff that gets repeatedly parroted (or thrown like excretions at a fan) by conservatives (and some liberals) that are hysterical about the current immigration crisis with certain countries (among other blunders).
They're fuel for the fire of capitalism, to put salt on the wound.

You sound like a Wahhabi sympathizer to me.

 

[sooda]

View attachment 27883

The Saudis have been very aggressive in fighting terrorists since the late 1990s. In 1994 they revoked OBL's citizenship and declared AQ a terrorist outfit.

 

[sooda]

No, that's what they claim, in their reformation but it's not what they categorically represent.

Their ideology is the poison, the vermin eating away at Sunnism at the moment and has been one of the biggest threats to fellow Shi'i and Sufis alike. They stand for a fascist form of political and social coercion undermining the Sunni world at the moment, fueling the bait of the "terrorists" and one of the biggest threats to the freedom of Shi'i in general. Their poison is the stuff that gets repeatedly thrown like excretions at a fan, by conservatives (and some liberals) that are hysterical about the current immigration crisis with certain countries (among other blunders).
They're fuel for the fire of capitalism as well.

You sound like a Wahhabi sympathizer to me.

I lived around them for many years. I like them. They are friendly, hospitable and kind.

The Shia in KSA are fine.. They are well represented in the oil industry and the merchant class.

 

[charlie sc]

When it comes to apostasy, you have no idea about life as a non-Sunni. For centuries Shi'ites of all the sub-sects of Shi'ism have been targeted for apparent "apostasy" and there is a lot of anti-Shia propaganda spread about Shi'ism in Wahhabi-majority

You're right, I don't know. Neither do I know what it was like being a slave in Ancient Rome, but I can probably assess it was not a good thing. I can also conclude that no one needs to be a slave since it's not something that came out of nature and is enforced by other people.

Read my statement again. Imagine trying to enforce the Eightfold Path as legislation.......

I don't know why I should imagine it, because it's not something that's happening. Imagine trying to enforce good manners through legislation I'm not sure what relevance it has other than to deflect what is actually happening now.

 

[sooda]

No, that's what they claim, in their reformation but it's not what they categorically represent.

Their ideology is the poison, the vermin eating away at Sunnism at the moment and has been one of the biggest threats to fellow Shi'i and Sufis alike. They stand for a fascist form of political and social coercion undermining the Sunni world at the moment, fueling the bait of the "terrorists" and one of the biggest threats to the freedom of Shi'i in general. Their poison is the stuff that gets repeatedly parroted (or thrown like excretions at a fan) by conservatives (and some liberals) that are hysterical about the current immigration crisis with certain countries (among other blunders).
They're fuel for the fire of capitalism, to put salt on the wound.

You sound like a Wahhabi sympathizer to me.

Are you Shia?

 

[Firemorphic]

You're right, I don't know.

You don't seem to get what I'm overtly hinting at there either. You make this thread about whether we (Muslims) should support the punishing of apostasy, yet you seem to have a very vague monolithic conception of Islam in the first place (with is troubling in and of itself). This basically means that you all-together miss the nuance that, I as a Shia (for example), would be a target to those that are antishia.
Rhetorical question: How should I feel about apostasy laws? (of any kind)

I'm not sure what relevance it has other than to deflect what is actually happening now.

You sure love that word. No, my point was to perhaps humor you to the way I feel (absurd) about legislation of that kind as a Muslim. Did that help?

 

[Firemorphic]

Are you Shia?

Well it says on my name badge. Yes, I'm Shia

 

[charlie sc]

You don't seem to get what I'm overtly hinting at there either. You make this thread about whether we (Muslims) should support the punishing of apostasy, yet you seem to have a very vague monolithic conception of Islam in the first place (with is troubling in and of itself). This basically means that you all-together miss the nuance that, I as a Shia (for example), would be a target to those that are antishia.
Rhetorical question: How should I feel about apostasy laws? (of any kind)



You sure love that word. No, my point was to perhaps humor you to the way I feel (absurd) about legislation of that kind as a Muslim. Did that help?

Oh I see, sorry. It's like pulling teeth to get a simple question answered for some here, therefore I mistook what you said for deflection. Perhaps it was over my head to begin with anyway. I'm a moral relativist, so I don't think it's wrong or right to believe things contrary to others within the context of their belief. So, if someone believes pillaging and raiding is alright, then who am I to enforce my belief on them. In this thread, even though no one has explicitly said they believe apostasy is punishable by other human beings, it's incredibly difficult to get an answer. So what happens, out of frustration, my own views become the forefront of discussion.

 

[Shad]

I have said this a dozen times now. Treason to the community.

So? Still treason based on a thought crime.

 

[sooda]

So? Still treason based on a thought crime.

No based on murder or rape or some other capital crime.

 

[Shad]

No based on murder or rape or some other capital crime.

Nope as apostasy also include leaving the religion. So again a thought crime.

Yawn.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/208622.pdf

 

[Earthling]

Lol, I care about human life in general. For me, holding an ideology does not take precedence over someone's life but apparently to some people it does.

Do you believe apostasy should be punished by people?

I think that the important thing to consider here is the dangerous mixture of "church" and state. It's unfortunate that there are countries where Islam is so embedded in the state that what? One has no choice? For a group of religious fanatics to judge their own is one thing, but to judge outside of that group, for all, is dangerous.

I know that, for example, in Iran, Christians, Jews and Muslims get along pretty good. But what about atheists? I don't know. (Link: Wikipedia - Irreligion In Iran)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's not an Arabic dictionary, is it?

The word means what it means.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No based on murder or rape or some other capital crime.

Such actions are called "murder" and "rape" and people who engage in that are charged for "murder" or "rape".

Apostacy is something specific.

 

[sooda]

Such actions are called "murder" and "rape" and people who engage in that are charged for "murder" or "rape".

Apostacy is something specific.

There is no word for rape in Arabic.. and apostasy is translated treason.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is no word for rape in Arabic..

To easy, and somewhat inappropriate, to make jokes about that

and apostasy is translated treason.

I don't care. It means what it means.
That Islam considers leaving the religion "treason", to the point that they apparantly even use the same word for it, is irrelevant to the fact that it is about leaving the religion.

The OP question is about apostacy. It's not about murder or rape or whatever sidetrack you are trying to steer this in.
It is about apostacy. ie leaving the religion and making no secret of it.

 

[sooda]

To easy, and somewhat inappropriate, to make jokes about that

I don't care. It means what it means.
That Islam considers leaving the religion "treason", to the point that they apparantly even use the same word for it, is irrelevant to the fact that it is about leaving the religion.

The OP question is about apostacy. It's not about murder or rape or whatever sidetrack you are trying to steer this in.
It is about apostacy. ie leaving the religion and making no secret of it.

Are you Italian? If so, you probably have Saracen ancestors.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you Italian? If so, you probably have Saracen ancestors.

I have no idea what that means, but it's just another dodge.

The OP is about apostacy. ie: leaving the religion.

It's not about murder.
It's not about rape.
It's not about any other crime like that.

It is just about leaving the religion and what the consequences are of only that.