Are religious leaders today afraid of esoteric teachings?

[Brian2]

That is indeed how it was presented, as 'false teachings'. The crooked arguments they used however prove that they were mostly doing apologetics and that they were not interested in the real facts about the texts that they were discussing. Of course that was a different age, there was no scientific paradigma to counter such falsehoods.

They felt threatened by the more esoteric paths and tried to vilify them.

It was the same whether the other paths were esoteric or not.
Esoteric however is elitism and snobbery in religion and Christianity is for everyone.
Christianity is not really Christianity when you reject the Christian scriptures and start making up your own. It is of course only a small number who make the things up but they deceive many into thinking they have something special and above the rest.

 

[Marcion]

It was the same whether the other paths were esoteric or not.
Esoteric however is elitism and snobbery in religion and Christianity is for everyone.
Christianity is not really Christianity when you reject the Christian scriptures and start making up your own. It is of course only a small number who make the things up but they deceive many into thinking they have something special and above the rest.

Paths like Sufism and Tantra-Yoga are for everyone who is ready to become a serious practitioner.
The tantric path that Jesus started was also for serious disciples whom Jesus instructed personally about the deeper meaning of his teachings.

But you are correct that religious practices such as attending church, being a good person and doing prayers is easier and more suitable for larger groups of people, people who are not yet ready to go deeper into mysticism.

But I would not call the first followers of Jesus elitist, they were just very fortunate.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Esoteric however is elitism and snobbery in religion and Christianity is for everyone.

*considers whether or not to point out how elitist and snobbish this statement is*

 

[Marcion]

Of course its impossible to quantify how much of the teachings within Hinduism are esoteric and as soon as you share an esoteric teaching with a commoner such as myself its no longer an esoteric teaching.

I'm not sure if that is true. I have shared many of the esoteric teachings from my path on this forum.
Esoteric just means that those teachings are directed towards the subject (the inner mind) and not towards external forms of worship.
The only parts of esoteric teachings that remain hidden are personal mantra's and certain details of the meditation techniques. The reason is that the relationship with the Master is a very intimate and a personal one. Just like with marital intimacy, you don't discuss these things in public but keep them close to your heart.

 

[Brian2]

*considers whether or not to point out how elitist and snobbish this statement is*

I am talking about the esoteric stuff in such things as the gnostic religions which made their own scriptures about Jesus even though they were not the ones who were the followers Jesus taught and sent off to preach to the world. These gnostics said they had special hidden knowledge, while the apostles and church fathers said that they were completely wrong in the things they taught.
People with special hidden knowledge can become elitist and snobbish. Even people with a lot of the run of the mill knowledge can become like that.

 

[Brian2]

Paths like Sufism and Tantra-Yoga are for everyone who is ready to become a serious practitioner.
The tantric path that Jesus started was also for serious disciples whom Jesus instructed personally about the deeper meaning of his teachings.

But you are correct that religious practices such as attending church, being a good person and doing prayers is easier and more suitable for larger groups of people, people who are not yet ready to go deeper into mysticism.

But I would not call the first followers of Jesus elitist, they were just very fortunate.

It is good to be searching for the truth but you are wrong about Jesus starting any path except the one handed down by the apostles. There is no special knowledge about Jesus that we do not know from the Bible.

 

[Marcion]

It is good to be searching for the truth but you are wrong about Jesus starting any path except the one handed down by the apostles. There is no special knowledge about Jesus that we do not know from the Bible.

Well, you are of course entitled to your own viewpoint on this. I don't believe there were any real apostles. At least not in the way as described by authors of the New Testament.

 

[Shakeel]

There are no parts of Islam. There are deviated people though. There are also no "hidden" wisdoms, such that only certain people can know (like the descendants of so-and-so). Unless by hidden wisdom one means the things one may understand after a long time of studying.

Surat Al-An'am, ayah 159 "Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do."​

 

[Brian2]

Well, you are of course entitled to your own viewpoint on this. I don't believe there were any real apostles. At least not in the way as described by authors of the New Testament.

What then do you believe about Jesus and the apostles and from where do you get those beliefs?

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

There are no parts of Islam. There are deviated people though.

Where do you draw the line though?
Because judgement and persecution often play a role in this division and identification of sects.
I understand that your sense of right and wrong based on your moral framework may compel you to tell other Muslims when they are doing it wrong, but are differences of opinion regarding the scriptures tolerated (to an certain extent) in your view?
And what about Quranist Muslims; people who put no stock in Hadith and the Sunnah, but solely rely on the Quran as a guideline for their life? Are they deviants to you?

 

[Shakeel]

Where do you draw the line though?
Because judgement and persecution often play a role in this division and identification of sects.
I understand that your sense of right and wrong based on your moral framework may compel you to tell other Muslims when they are doing it wrong, but are differences of opinion regarding the scriptures tolerated (to an certain extent) in your view?
And what about Quranist Muslims; people who put no stock in Hadith and the Sunnah, but solely rely on the Quran as a guideline for their life? Are they deviants to you?

No, my sense of right and wrong is not what I depend on in advising other Muslims. I depend on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the writings of highly esteemed scholars of Islam.

There are slight differences in interpretations and often multiple interpretations are accepted as equally valid, but none such that would leave room for the deviated groups.

A person who does not follow the sunnah is not following the Qur'an either. Even if compared with the rest of the deviants, calling this group a sect at all would be exaggerated flattery that they do not deserve.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

No, my sense of right and wrong is not what I depend on in advising other Muslims. I depend on the Qur'an and the Sunnah and the writings of highly esteemed scholars of Islam.

There are slight differences in interpretations and often multiple interpretations are accepted as equally valid, but none such that would leave room for the deviated groups.

A person who does not follow the sunnah is not following the Qur'an either. Even if compared with the rest of the deviants, calling this group a sect at all would be exaggerated flattery that they do not deserve.

How do you depend on the things you've mentioned, while excluding your own person as though you don't exist and don't have a God-given mind and senses of your own?
How do you know that these highly esteemed scholars are reliable? Isn't that based on your own sense of right and wrong, regardless whether you choose to question authorities(whether it be the Quran itself or the scholars), or accept everything you have been told?

Or do you never think about what you do, even though the Quran encourages people to reflect?