-Are Christians today still Protestants?

[roli]

Only if you gave me a mirror. I have read many of those documents.

Here is the real issue.

The SPIRIT is what gives us Spiritual Life. Only the Spirit. The faction of Christianity does not make you alive. Reading the right epistles does not make you alive. Following a certain dogma surely won't make you alive Spiritually.

The Spirit guides each and every one of us, AS WE LET IT. The more we give in to our Spiritual Nature, the stronger it grows. The more we allow the Spirit to lead our understanding, the more we will have the grace, yes even the character of God.

Scripture never claims to be perfect: that is merely an invention of man. It does claim to be sufficient. God works primarily through the imperfect in order to demonstrate his true power. Too often Christians denude him of his ability to work miracles.

I agree with what your saying Scuba ,regarding the spirit ,but that is or can sound so generic in today's culture.Men like to associate many expereinces as spiritual and then assume it is from God.
But most don't understand that ther are many spirits in our world that are counterfiet and seem harmless and even divine ,but are far from it.
John says test the spirits to see which is from God.
It is true that God draws man to himself by his spirit ,that is Holy Spirit and that man can only know God by being born again ,spiritually ,by his spirit.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The spirit is that of the Holy Spirit of God

 

[Scuba Pete]

I agree roli... that's why Jesus gave us the "acid test" for his disciples. You find someone who meets THAT criteria and you have found someone FULL of the Spirit.

 

[anders]

d.n.irvin, I don't always understand your reasoning.

Because God only spoke and wrote 10

There's ONE case in the NT where a list of commandments (14, I think) is followed by a refence to it as "the ten". Which commandment is the last one in that list? It must be important, because it's quoted three times in the Book.

So?

It is

Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

The Fact is, most of the Christian world -that have Bibles readily available to read -regardless of denomination or creed- haven't even read the whole Bible - let alone follow the Whole Bible.

Please define which of the perhaps thousands of versions in many hundreds of languages is your "Whole Bible".

 

[d.n.irvin]

Tell me what you think about these quotes from some of the great Protestant Reformers:

Quote:
Martin Luther (1483-1546) [founder of the Lutheran Church]
“nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist….For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny.” Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197
Quote:
John Calvin (1509-1564) [founder of the Presbyterian Church]
“I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter..I deny him to be the head of the church.” “Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt…I shall briefly show that (Pauls words in 2 Thessalonians 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy” John Calvin, Tracts, Vol. 1, pp. 219,220. John Calvin, Institutes.
Quote:
John Wesley (1703-1791) [founder of the Methodist Church]
“He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers… He it is…that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped… claiming the highest power, and highest honor… claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone.” Albert Close, Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms, London: Thynne and Co., 1917, p. 110.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Do you want us to comment on their seeming intolerance, their flawed humanity or what? If you have a point to make, just say it plainly.

I must say, that as a Christian, I protest against Shrub and his unholy war in the Middle East. Does that make me a Protestant in your eyes?

 

[d.n.irvin]

d.n.irvin, I don't always understand your reasoning.
How so?

There's ONE case in the NT where a list of commandments (14, I think) is followed by a refence to it as "the ten". Which commandment is the last one in that list? It must be important, because it's quoted three times in the Book.
Please clarify and provide references please

So?
So? - what?
It is

Please define which of the perhaps thousands of versions in many hundreds of languages is your "Whole Bible".
I have no opinions other than those mentioned in the scriptures.
Lets start with Daniel and Revelation of the KJV - most people in this forum have never read these two Books complainingly - or even read them at all.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth,, and they that hear and the words of this prophecy and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. " Revelation 1:1-3

 

[d.n.irvin]

Do you want us to comment on their seeming intolerance, their flawed humanity or what? If you have a point to make, just say it plainly.
What would make them come to these conclusions?
I must say, that as a Christian, I protest against Shrub and his unholy war in the Middle East. Does that make me a Protestant in your eyes?

I personally feel as though a Christian should protest injustice anywhere at any time ?

I mean like Bible Prophecy tells me that Protestantism would die- that is, the people would forget the reasons they split from the Catholic Church to begin with- and eventually join hands with her again -giving up their religious freedoms.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I have no opinions other than those mentioned in the scriptures.

Yeah... I doubt that contention. Are you telling us that you think you understand EVERYTHING PERFECTLY in all of the scriptures? Not even Paul was this sure of himself.

Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, NIV

 

[Booko]

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth,, and they that hear and the words of this prophecy and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. " Revelation 1:1-3

Will you kindly learn how to use the bloody QUOTE feature?

They way you're quoting people you're putting things into other people's mouths.

In this post of yours that I'm responding to you made it look like Anders said this:

I have no opinions other than those mentioned in the scriptures.
Lets start with Daniel and Revelation of the KJV - most people in this forum have never read these two Books complainingly - or even read them at all.

But it was you -- not him.

People really get irritated by this stuff.

If you want to learn how to use it, just go ask over in Site Feedback or someplace. There are plenty of people here who would be willing to help you out with this.

As for Daniel and Revelation of the KJV or any other translation, I've read them plenty of times, thankyouverymuch.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Yeah... I doubt that contention. Are you telling us that you think you understand EVERYTHING PERFECTLY in all of the scriptures? Not even Paul was this sure of himself.

Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, NIV

I'm not even going to respond to that, it seems as though your trying to start an offshoot argument. Though I can refer you to the scriptures say about Prophecy:

And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe." John 14:29

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19

Bible Prophecy is one of the greatest weapons we have to fight against Satans deceptions. If God sent his only Son to save us - surely the ALL knowing God of Heaven and Earth can lay out end time events in prophecy for us.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I'm not even going to respond to that, it seems as though your trying to start an offshoot argument.

Oh the answer is quite germane to the question at hand, but it doesn't appear that I will get one. Pity that, it would be good to know if you are being honest with us.

Though I can refer you to the scriptures say about Prophecy: Bible Prophecy is one of the greatest weapons we have to fight against Satans deceptions.

And I can point you to several about pride, and spiritual pride at that.

If God sent his only Son to save us - surely the ALL knowing God of Heaven and Earth can lay out end time events in prophecy for us.

Amos refers to God's prophets. Are you claiming now to be a prophet? If so, tell us this: where do the scriptures claim to be "perfect". While you are chasing your tail with this one, tell us this: where do the scriptures claim to save you?

I Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? NIV

 

[d.n.irvin]

Oh the answer is quite germane to the question at hand, but it doesn't appear that I will get one. Pity that, it would be good to know if you are being honest with us. And I can point you to several about pride, and spiritual pride at that. Amos refers to God's prophets. Are you claiming now to be a prophet? If so, tell us this: where do the scriptures claim to be "perfect". While you are chasing your tail with this one, tell us this: where do the scriptures claim to save you?

I Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? NIV

Brother Pete
By NO MEANS do I claim anything of myself- Your totally missing the point if thats what you got out my last post. A humble but bold student of the Bible -the only thing I claim is to be familiar with Bible Prophecy -not my interpretation of Prophecy -the Bible's interpretation of Prophecy.

Make no mistake, I want to discuss why more people don't pay attention to Bible Prophecy I don't care what denomination you are -If your Christian that is

 

[Scuba Pete]

Your totally missing the point

I missed no point, but I did ask for clarification. So, I have to ask you for more clarification. Earlier you posted:

Bible Prophecy is one of the greatest weapons we have to fight against Satans deceptions.

Now, how do people know a true Christian? Is it by their prophecy? I would suggest that there is a far greater weapon than mere prophecy.

 

[d.n.irvin]

I missed no point, but I did ask for clarification. So, I have to ask you for more clarification. Earlier you posted: Now, how do people know a true Christian?

Where?

Is it by their prophecy?

Prophecy comes from the Bible ex.) K JV

I would suggest that there is a far greater weapon than mere prophecy.

In these last days I can't tell , people are swayed by "any wind of doctrine" A through investigation of Bible Prophecy is very eye opening- and clarifying.

Is Bible Prophecy reliable?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Prophecy comes from the Bible ex.) K JV

Do you subscribe to the doctrine of an "Inspired Version"? If you do, you need to rethink that. It's not found in any scripture and is way counter productive to really understanding the real intent of the scriptures.

In these last days I can't tell , people are swayed by "any wind of doctrine" A through investigation of Bible Prophecy is very eye opening- and clarifying.

Scripture is important, but even more important is allowing scripture to come alive in your life!

But the answer to your question about Christians being Protestant lies in finding Jesus' acid test for being a disciple.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Do you subscribe to the doctrine of an "Inspired Version"?

No -however some versions are more reliable than others

If you do, you need to rethink that. It's not found in any scripture and is way counter productive to really understanding the real intent of the scriptures. Scripture is important, but even more important is allowing scripture to come alive in your life!

And keeping the Sabbath is certainly apart of putting the teaching of the scriptures to life

But the answer to your question about Christians being Protestant lies in finding Jesus' acid test for being a disciple.

I read that in one of your other posts - does that mean you keep the Sabbath the disciples certainly did

Additional "acid tests" for being a disciple post #414

 

[Scuba Pete]

No -however some versions are more reliable than others

So, you choose one that is written in an archaic dialect of English? You have to translate the KJV into modern English to get it to make sense.

And keeping the Sabbath is certainly apart of putting the teaching of the scriptures to life

Maybe if you are teaching the "Law" or the Old Testament. You did hear the good news that we are FREED from sin and the Law, right? I mean, you aren't living your life UNDER the old law still are you? Jesus completely fulfilled the requirements of the Old Law and gave us a NEW Law. In fact, the scriptures refer to that "Old Law" as the Law of Death and our New Law as the Law of Life.

Now, which do you choose? Living under the Law, or living under Grace? You can't have both!

Romans 7:1 Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.NIV


You see, we don't have to be "Protestants", we just need to live a life of LOVE and FREEDOM.

I read that in one of your other posts - does that mean you keep the Sabbath the disciples certainly did

No, that does not mean that I rest on Saturday. Do you not know Jesus' acid test for disciples? It has NOTHING to do with keeping the Sabbath. If you haven't figured out what it is, I will point you to a scripture that explains it perfectly. But really, we no longer need the Sabbath. You see, in the OT God wanted a tenth of everything including our time. However, we have a seven day week, so he took a day. In the NT, God wants OUR HEARTS. IOW, he is not satisfied with a mere %10, HE WANTS IT ALL. Not only is the last day of the week dedicated to God, but so are Sunday thru Friday!

So why do most churches meet on the FIRST day of the week?

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. NIV

I Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. NIV

I believe that this came from the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week which is probably why they celebrated communion (see Acts 20:7) on Sunday.

John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. NIV

And Jesus appeared to them on the first day as well.

John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" NIV

Now, if you still don't understand this concept of being FREE from the law, I have a reading assignment for you. Read all of Romans 6, 7 and 8 in a version OTHER than the KJV. Soon, you will find that the Spirit can work through ANY translation, so pick one that speaks YOUR language.

 

[d.n.irvin]

So, you choose one that is written in an archaic dialect of English? You have to translate the KJV into modern English to get it to make sense. Maybe if you are teaching the "Law" or the Old Testament. You did hear the good news that we are FREED from sin and the Law, right? I mean, you aren't living your life UNDER the old law still are you? Jesus completely fulfilled the requirements of the Old Law and gave us a NEW Law. In fact, the scriptures refer to that "Old Law" as the Law of Death and our New Law as the Law of Life.

Now, which do you choose? Living under the Law, or living under Grace? You can't have both!

Romans 7:1 Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.NIV


You see, we don't have to be "Protestants", we just need to live a life of LOVE and FREEDOM. No, that does not mean that I rest on Saturday. Do you not know Jesus' acid test for disciples? It has NOTHING to do with keeping the Sabbath. If you haven't figured out what it is, I will point you to a scripture that explains it perfectly. But really, we no longer need the Sabbath. You see, in the OT God wanted a tenth of everything including our time. However, we have a seven day week, so he took a day. In the NT, God wants OUR HEARTS. IOW, he is not satisfied with a mere %10, HE WANTS IT ALL. Not only is the last day of the week dedicated to God, but so are Sunday thru Friday!

So why do most churches meet on the FIRST day of the week?

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. NIV

I Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. NIV

I believe that this came from the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week which is probably why they celebrated communion (see Acts 20:7) on Sunday.

John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. NIV

And Jesus appeared to them on the first day as well.

John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" NIV

Now, if you still don't understand this concept of being FREE from the law, I have a reading assignment for you. Read all of Romans 6, 7 and 8 in a version OTHER than the KJV. Soon, you will find that the Spirit can work through ANY translation, so pick one that speaks YOUR language.

Brother Pete
Many Christians today, mostly all Christians today misunderstand the "first day" of the week according to the Bible. When you cite the texts the way that you have above, it lets me know you NOT are using the Bible to calculate time. What do I mean by this? Lets have a look at Genesis

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen. 1:5

Now the Jews knew this very well. Look again at the texts above in context of of Gen 1:5 and Jewish custom - Do you think that they were in a continuation of a Sabbath worship service that went on into the night? Remember a day according to the Bible is sunset to sunset

 

[Scuba Pete]

You assume too much. Which day is irrelevant as there are no "special" days other than what your conscience tells you to do.

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. NIV

We are specifically asked to NOT pursue these kind of controversies.

 

[blackout]

Christians are..... well..... Christians.

We are all the people of God.

Hope that helps.
S

And that would imply that the rest of us .... are... not?

and what exactly IS the deciding factor that makes someone a "christian" anyway?

As a roman catholic... many protestents would say you are not even christian.
And the catholics say the rest of christendom does not have the "fullness" of the faith.

So then you are all the people of God ... to one lesser degree or another.

(and the rest of us are hell bound...)