Another Stupid Abortion Ploy

[Prima]

God banning abortion is almost as bad as making an ammendment to the US constitution banning Gay realtions

That made absolutely no sense to me. Please explain yourself.

 

[anders]

Yet another, for the umptieth time, a culture clash.

Why do you need "abortion clinics"? Those things are taken care of in Sweden within the normal medical system. A woman considering an abortion will get any required information and in a neutral way. If she convinces her physician that an early abortion is the best way, she'll get it, and she won't have to worry about costs. The System takes care of that.

After all, it's her body. For example, getting rid of a tumour consisting of a few dozen of unwanted, undifferentiated cells (yes, for the sake of argument, I'm referring to quite early cases) can't in any way be worse than getting rid of a cancerous tumour.

 

[Prima]

In Sweden, do you not have private practices? Who is to say what should and should not be part of the 'normal medical system'?

However, it is true that if that were the case here, we would be having this debate!

 

[jamaesi]

Yeah, they plan to go to work and kill babies for a living, and then drive home in thier sports cars from the money they make. I can link you to some of the testimony of former abortionists who can confirm my original argument, that for them, and from what they say all the rest of the employees at their clinic, it was all about money, nothing else.

You know what? I could find you plenty of doctors who are only in it for the money. A lot of them aren't, sweetie. (Not only that, but if you paid me enough I could talk for hours about my "heterosexuality" and my unwavering faith in G-d" and how I never ever look at porn ever and only care about helping people without ever doing anything for myself.)


Johnny, I really think you need to lay off this abortion topic. You're turning more and more fanatical and this can't possibly be good for your health.

 

[Melody]

This is a perfect example of your use of biased language. A fetus is not a fully fledged human being, whether you want to hear it or not.

TVOR,

There are those of us who disagree...and there's the problem.

When I miscarried my first child at 8 weeks, I grieved for quite awhile over the loss of that little life. The grieving was made more difficult by insensitive people who implied that it was a good thing it was just a piece of "tissue" and not a real baby as I wouldn't have to deal with the grief. At odd moments, when I look at my other three children, I wonder what that other little life could possibly have been.

There will always be disagreement on abortion because of the disagreement on when the "humanity" of life begins.

 

[Melody]

For example, getting rid of a tumour consisting of a few dozen of unwanted, undifferentiated cells (yes, for the sake of argument, I'm referring to quite early cases) can't in any way be worse than getting rid of a cancerous tumour.

Tumor? Normally when I read the pro-abortion posts, while I generally disagree, they don't incite strong emotions.

To hear this tiny life referred to as a tumor and compared to a destructive cancer, though, made me ill....and sad that life has become so devalued that this little life isn't even recognized as life anymore, but rather is associated with a destructive force.

 

[Melody]

These are the questions I'm not totally clear on:
1) Do women really tend to have abortions less if they have an ultrasound?

Spinks,
I don't think there are enough statistics in yet on #1 although I heard a report on NPR that stated there is some indication that women who see their infant on an ultrasound do change their mind about the abortion.

 

[Pah]

... There will always be disagreement on abortion because of the disagreement on when the "humanity" of life begins.

Therein lies the whole problem. The choice is arbitrary until birth

 

[Tawn]

The grieving was made more difficult by insensitive people who implied that it was a good thing it was just a piece of "tissue" and not a real baby as I wouldn't have to deal with the grief. At odd moments, when I look at my other three children, I wonder what that other little life could possibly have been.

Do you wonder what life may have been created each time you have 'safe sex' (if indeed you do...) ? Do you wonder what life may have been prevented from coming to fruition because of your children? How many lifes have been prevented by your own existance (your parner may have met someone else)? Such thoughts are not productive.

There will always be disagreement on abortion because of the disagreement on when the "humanity" of life begins.

Yes, this is the real issue. Even pro-abortionists agree wholeheartedly that if a fetus can truly be considered fully human then abortion is wrong. There has to be a cut-off point somewhere between fertilised egg and birth.. but where?

 

[Pah]

... There has to be a cut-off point somewhere between fertilised egg and birth.. but where?

To be fair, the discussion should include the position that sperm and ova is the beginning of life. But then we have to talk about an idividual's life begining in the Grandmothers womb for that is where the mother's ova originate that lead to the individual. And we would have to agree on a definition of life in regard to the human. With all the emotion shown in this topic, it seems well nigh impossible.

But one thing is clear, any philosophical discussion is apart from the standards of law.where a human being is first recognized as attaining citizenship.

Nobody seems to want to be this comprehensive.

 

[Melody]

Do you wonder what life may have been created each time you have 'safe sex' (if indeed you do...) ? Do you wonder what life may have been prevented from coming to fruition because of your children? How many lifes have been prevented by your own existance (your parner may have met someone else)? Such thoughts are not productive.
Yes, this is the real issue. Even pro-abortionists agree wholeheartedly that if a fetus can truly be considered fully human then abortion is wrong. There has to be a cut-off point somewhere between fertilised egg and birth.. but where?

Tawn,
I no more consider one of my unfertilized eggs as a child, than I consider a chicken's unfertilized egg a chicken. I don't know about others, but for me there's a big difference between preventing life from starting and killing one that has already begun.

I am pro-life. There is no cutoff *between* fertilized egg and birth for me. Prevent by all means...but to destroy a life that has already been started....my belief is that it's murder.

 

[Tawn]

I am pro-life. There is no cutoff *between* fertilized egg and birth for me. Prevent by all means...but to destroy a life that has already been started....my belief is that it's murder.

Yet it is still only a 'potential' human life. Whats is it about the first few cells that transform into human life, that gives them human rights? They do not think feel etc.. they have no emotions - no brain has formed.. I cant separate them from unfertilised eggs.. they are still only potential life as far as I can see.

 

[anders]

In Sweden, do you not have private practices?

Yes. A care centre or a private practice would be where the woman would get the referral to a suitable hospital. I've tried to find a mentioning of costs, but no information. Probably, there will be the fee for the primary visit only. No health professional will earn any more or any less because of the woman's decision.

Who is to say what should and should not be part of the 'normal medical system'?

Ultimately, the voters. The system is of course not pefect for everybody. For example, few couples are eligible for subsidized artificial insemination, fewer still for in vitro fertilization. That's the one real restriction I can think of.

(Circumcision performed by a physician costs some USD 400 where available. Being a medically unnecessary operation, there are no subsidies. Some surgeons refuse to cut, because the infant can't give informed consent.)

 

[Melody]

Yet it is still only a 'potential' human life. Whats is it about the first few cells that transform into human life, that gives them human rights? They do not think feel etc.. they have no emotions - no brain has formed.. I cant separate them from unfertilised eggs.. they are still only potential life as far as I can see.

Again, we're talking semantics. You see the fetus as potential life. I see it as life. Potential life is not the same as life. It's a "maybe".

 

[brandie]

I personally dont agree with abortion to me, yes it is the "M" word. I have always been pro-life ever since I found out what it was. I don't see how the DR's can sleep at night with knowing that they have killed an innocent child. My sister had an abortion with her 2nd child just because she didn't feel like changing diapers and making bottles again so soon, this was her excuse I told her there was adoption and oter means to take care of this. I found out later that she was cheating on her husband and didnt know if the child was his or not, even so it wasn't right! That was my niece or nephew she decided to dispose of. My parents gave her $500 to go and do this I asked them how they could contribute to her killing there grand child, I just dont understand how some one could do this. They all asked me to watch my niece so she could go do away with her brother or sister, I told them NO I refused to take part in any way, shape or form. This dosent only happen in the offices of PP it happens in hospitals and other places as well. The people who do this don't stop to think of how it's going to effect the rest of their families. ADOPTION IS THE ALTERNATIVE TO THIS! :tsk:

 

[Tawn]

Again, we're talking semantics. You see the fetus as potential life. I see it as life. Potential life is not the same as life. It's a "maybe".

Ah well if I was picky (which I am) I would point out that even a fetus is still a 'maybe'.
However, whether or not a fetus is definitely or maybe going to develop into a human makes no difference. It is not yet Human life.

ADOPTION IS THE ALTERNATIVE TO THIS

I agree. It seems a better option to adopt, however, some people feel differently and I dont think its our right to interfere unless the fetus has formed into something recognisably human. Its equivalent to telling somone off for not having sex.. theyve prevented life from forming!!!