Another Stupid Abortion Ploy

[johnnys4life]

Apparently Planned Parenthood is losing customers to pregnancy centers. I say, GOOD. These are people who CLAIM to want to make abortion "safe and rare". But apparently that ISN'T what they want, if you look at what they are actually doing. Because if a lot of these women could only see their unborn children on ultrasound, they will see that yes it is a child, and not go to PP for an abortion. Statistics prove it, pregnancy centers know it, and Planned Parenthood just can't have that!

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Anyone else find it utterly rediculous that the same people who cut 24-week-old unborn babies to pieces every single day are concerned about an ultrasound "hurting" an unborn child??

GEE, who knew an unborn child had feelings?? AND HERE I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A "LUMP OF TISSUE"! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planned Parenthood Ploy on Ultrasounds

We just read a frantic letter from the National Organization for Women, in which they pretended to be terrified that they may lose their sacred right to murder children without restriction. It was a cry-baby letter, difficult to read.

NARAL, the National Abortion Rights Action League, now Naral Pro-Choice America, is sending a similar letter, while Planned Parenthood is trying to get bills passed that would make it virtually impossible for Crisis Pregnancy Centers to allow women to see their babies alive and moving inside their wombs through use of ultrasound.

They are determined here in Illinois and elsewhere to make it too costly and too difficult for the crisis pregnancy centers to show women ultrasounds. They know that nine out of ten women who see their babies moving and watch their rapid heartbeats, will not go ahead with their schedled abortions.

The name of the abortion game is, and has always been, make the cash register ring up a sale. But when a woman sees her baby she doesn't buy the abortion. So, Planned Parenthood is trying to get laws passed that would makes it too costly for prolifers to use ultrasound.

Their specious argument is that ultrasound might harm the unborn, so specialists must be hired to be on hand at all times. Can you figure that out? First of all, ultrasound specialists say the ultrasound procedure does not harm the baby. But Planned Parenthood claims they want to protect the baby that they are going to cut to pieces.

That's like not allowing a prisoner on death row to have ice cream with his last meal before his execution, since it is fattening.

Fight Illinois Ultrasound Bill

Planned Parenthood must think our Illinois legislators are awfully dumb. If their Illinois bill, HB 2492, the Ultrasound Restriction Act, passes in the General Assembly, they might be right about our legislators. After all, it did pass out of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee recently by a vote of 8 to 3.

So call your own state senator in Springfield at 217-782-2000 and point out the stupidity of this bill. Even the Federal Drug Administration has said there is no evidence whatsoever that an ultrasound can harm the unborn child. Women in Illinois are not seeking such legislation, anyway, only Planned Parenthood and the abortion crowd want it.

A state assembly that believed in the value of Human Life would be on the pro-life side of this issue, urging women to have ultrasounds before even considering an abortion. Our next door neighbor, Indiana, passed a law that at least requires that the abortionist tell women about the availabililty of ultrasound.

http://www.prolifeaction.org/cgi-bin/perlfect/search/search.pl?q=ultrasound&showurl=http%3A//www.prolifeaction.org/hotline/2005/0516.htm

So what do you think, it is about protecting the unborn child from those Oh so deadly ultrasound rays, or is it about the almighty buck that gets snatched away from the abortionist after the woman sees her baby and decides to keep him or her?? You already know what I think.

 

[Druidus]

These are two different things. If the ultrasound damages a child that will be born, then there is a possibilty of defects or mental illnesses. I agree with you on some points, for instance, I don't think abortion is the answer to all situations, nor do I think that abortion should be legal after a certain point in a babies development, but I really do not think that abortionists are as conceited as you make them out to be.

There is no league of abortionists and eugenicists (not that you said there was one ) that plan to kill innocent children and babies while eating croissantes and drinking tea. They do what they do for a living.

 

[Original Freak]

These are two different things. If the ultrasound damages a child that will be born, then there is a possibilty of defects or mental illnesses. I agree with you on some points, for instance, I don't think abortion is the answer to all situations, nor do I think that abortion should be legal after a certain point in a babies development, but I really do not think that abortionists are as conceited as you make them out to be.

There is no league of abortionists and eugenicists (not that you said there was one ) that plan to kill innocent children and babies while eating croissantes and drinking tea. They do what they do for a living.

That's actually pretty damned close to what I was going to say.

 

[KateTacular]

<i>The name of the abortion game is, and has always been, make the cash register ring up a sale. But when a woman sees her baby she doesn't buy the abortion. So, Planned Parenthood is trying to get laws passed that would makes it too costly for prolifers to use ultrasound.</i>

Places like Planned Parenthood are there to take care of reproductive health and allow <b>all</b> women access to it. They aren't there for the sole purpose of making money and many of the clinics struggle from lack of funds. The language in that letter is so inflammatory I don't really see how you expect any of us to take it seriously.

 

[kreeden]

<i>The name of the abortion game is, and has always been, make the cash register ring up a sale.

Perhaps in the US of A ? Things work a little different here in Canada .

 

[michel]

These are two different things. If the ultrasound damages a child that will be born, then there is a possibilty of defects or mental illnesses. I agree with you on some points, for instance, I don't think abortion is the answer to all situations, nor do I think that abortion should be legal after a certain point in a babies development, but I really do not think that abortionists are as conceited as you make them out to be.

There is no league of abortionists and eugenicists (not that you said there was one ) that plan to kill innocent children and babies while eating croissantes and drinking tea. They do what they do for a living.

And I'll 'third' that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They are determined here in Illinois and elsewhere to make it too costly and too difficult for the crisis pregnancy centers to show women ultrasounds.

Thank you for your honest portrayal. Note, also ...

HB 2492 creates the Ultrasound Administration Act.

• Requires an order or referral from a physician, advanced practice nurse, nurse midwife or physician assistant in order for an ultrasound to be performed on a pregnant woman.
• A person who performs an ultrasound upon a pregnant woman without an order from a medical professional is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
• Prohibits orders or referrals for ultrasounds issued for entertainment purposes or purposes other than those warranted by the pregnant woman’s condition.

Both the Food and Drug Administration and the American Institute of Ultrasound Medicine have warned against the use of ultrasound on pregnant women for entertainment or other non-medical purposes. While ultrasound administered in low doses in a medical setting is considered safe, they warn that the long-term effects of repeated ultrasound exposure on the fetus are not fully known.

In recent years with the advent of 3-D ultrasound technology, ultrasound photo studios have established business throughout the country. These stores offer ultrasound photos and videos to expectant mothers.

Ultrasound photo studios usually do not have any medical personnel on staff and do not require the pregnant woman to consult with a physician prior to having an ultrasound.

• Some women may leave the studio with a false sense of security thinking that they have received a medical exam conducted by someone with medical training.
• Women may not realize that person performing the ultrasound is not trained to recognize fetal abnormalities.
• If a clear sign of abnormality appears during the session, there is no one there to explain it to the pregnant woman.

Pregnant women should not be exposed to the risks of non-medical use of ultrasound.

• Obstetricians use ultrasound at a very low power level and limited exposure time for medical evaluation. Under these conditions, the FDA considers fetal ultrasound safe.
• Some of ultrasound photo studios encourage women to return regularly to get additional photos as their babies develop. This can result in unnecessary and possible dangerous overexposure.
• The FDA has found that some ultrasound photo studios have been using ultrasound machines set on higher energy exposures for as long as an hour to get photos and videos.
• Ultrasound is a form of energy. Studies have shown that it can produce physical effects in tissue, such as jarring vibrations and rise in temperature.
• Human studies on ultrasound have not been feasible because of the potential risk to the developing baby. However, animal studies and some evaluation of outcomes of pregnancies indicate potential risk to development.

- see HB 2492

 

[KateTacular]

My italics didn't work...I was quoting johnnys4life...

Sorry for the confusion......

 

[The Voice of Reason]

So what do you think, it is about protecting the unborn child from those Oh so deadly ultrasound rays, or is it about the almighty buck that gets snatched away from the abortionist after the woman sees her baby and decides to keep him or her?? You already know what I think.

Since you asked what I think, I'll tell you.

I think the original post in this thread is about using half-truths and distorting the facts, in an attempt to further your views on abortion. At this point, I have given up on expecting to see anything close to a fair representation in a thread like this. I expected to see some type of an appeal to emotion, coupled with a total disregard for the facts, and a contempt for the intelligence of the reader - all spun together to try to convince people that it is better if you did their thinking for them. I wasn't disappointed.

I'm anxiously awaiting your first post in a thread about abortion that doesn't include the word "murder".

TVOR

 

[johnnys4life]

These are two different things. If the ultrasound damages a child that will be born, then there is a possibilty of defects or mental illnesses. I agree with you on some points, for instance, I don't think abortion is the answer to all situations, nor do I think that abortion should be legal after a certain point in a babies development, but I really do not think that abortionists are as conceited as you make them out to be.

There is no league of abortionists and eugenicists (not that you said there was one ) that plan to kill innocent children and babies while eating croissantes and drinking tea. They do what they do for a living.

Yeah, they plan to go to work and kill babies for a living, and then drive home in thier sports cars from the money they make. I can link you to some of the testimony of former abortionists who can confirm my original argument, that for them, and from what they say all the rest of the employees at their clinic, it was all about money, nothing else.

ULTRASOUNDS DO NOT DAMAGE BABIES. What woman DOESN'T get an ultrasound from her Ob/gyn at a visit???? Tell me that. This is a bunch of b.s.. I was to have 3 ultrasounds (scheduled by the doctor, not me) during my ordinary, healthy pregnancy. It was POLICY to do so, because ultrasounds can actually help you diagnose and treat a problem prenatally (yes you can treat a child within the womb, there are even fetal surgeons.)

They only want to keep it from happening in pregnancy centers because they know these women are at high risk for abortion (ie, low income, young, or black, etc.). FYI most pregnancy centers do perform ultrasounds via a doctor, and if not that a licensed tech. I can tell you from the inside on that one. All pregnancy centers do is try to inform women about what abortion really is, and help women who want to keep their child, either by material assistance, job-search assistance, shelters, etcetera.


You want to know what Planned Parenthood REALLY thinks about black, poor, and single women who "reproduce", whether they abort or not?

READ "THE PIVOT OF CIVILIZATION" by their beloved founder, Margaret Sanger. They ARE still in league with eugenicists, and Alexander Sanger, her grandson, was PP president as recently as 2000.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Did you even bother to read Deut's post?

Tell me more about the evil abortionists, rubbing their hands together in anticipation of the big payoff while snickering about murdering another unborn baby... Do they really twirl the ends of their handlebar mustache while dreaming up new ways to wantonly slaughter every fetus on the face of the earth?

What a piece of work.

TVOR

 

[KateTacular]

All pregnancy centers do is try to inform women about what abortion really is, and help women who want to keep their child, either by material assistance, job-search assistance, shelters, etcetera.

What abortion *really* is? These centers don't offer objective information. They use emotionally charged, biased language to persuade women after luring them in with seemingly innocent intentions. I accidently ended up at one myself once, and luckily had presence of mind to tell them I didn't appreciate them pushing their beliefs on me after posting misleading ads. I can imagine how incredibly easy it is for them to keep more frightened and/or uneducated women in their "center."

 

[johnnys4life]

What abortion *really* is? These centers don't offer objective information. They use emotionally charged, biased language to persuade women after luring them in with seemingly innocent intentions. I accidently ended up at one myself once, and luckily had presence of mind to tell them I didn't appreciate them pushing their beliefs on me after posting misleading ads. I can imagine how incredibly easy it is for them to keep more frightened and/or uneducated women in their "center."

OH really, and I suppose you can say that because you've ACTUALLY stepped foot in one, or even met someone who worked in one? What it sounds like to me, is that you borrowed your opinion from Naral or PP itself.

Biased language? You mean like HEARTBEAT, FETAL PAIN, MOVEMENT??

You want biased language? Try going to PP, where abortion is called "choice" unborn babies are called "tissue" and everything is those darn conservative Christians' fault!

Would you rather that women NOT SEE the ultrasound and go ahead with an abortion? What happens when they see the ultrasound of their NEXT child? Hmm? Ever think of that? Maybe YOU would be perfectly fine with knowing that you had a human being torn apart - one that moved, had a face, and could feel pain.

MOST WOMEN WOULDN'T.


And if they wouldn't, then why not show them BEFORE the do it, so they don't have to deal with the pain and remorse afterwards??

 

[johnnys4life]

<i>The name of the abortion game is, and has always been, make the cash register ring up a sale. But when a woman sees her baby she doesn't buy the abortion. So, Planned Parenthood is trying to get laws passed that would makes it too costly for prolifers to use ultrasound.</i>

Places like Planned Parenthood are there to take care of reproductive health and allow <b>all</b> women access to it. They aren't there for the sole purpose of making money and many of the clinics struggle from lack of funds. The language in that letter is so inflammatory I don't really see how you expect any of us to take it seriously.

They struggle with lack of funds because we are too sick and disgusted with what they do to give them any money. MOST people don't support abortionists.

 

[KateTacular]

OH really, and I suppose you can say that because you've ACTUALLY stepped foot in one, or even met someone who worked in one? What it sounds like to me, is that you borrowed your opinion from Naral or PP itself.

Biased language?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I just stated that I HAVE been in one and shared my experience with you.

You mean like HEARTBEAT, FETAL PAIN, MOVEMENT??

You want biased language? Try going to PP, where abortion is called "choice" unborn babies are called "tissue" and everything is those darn conservative Christians' fault!

It IS a choice and it IS tissue. Religious is not mention at PP clinics. Medical terminology is used.

Would you rather that women NOT SEE the ultrasound and go ahead with an abortion? What happens when they see the ultrasound of their NEXT child? Hmm? Ever think of that? Maybe YOU would be perfectly fine with knowing that you had a human being torn apart - one that moved, had a face, and could feel pain.

MOST WOMEN WOULDN'T.


And if they wouldn't, then why not show them BEFORE the do it, so they don't have to deal with the pain and remorse afterwards??

Or deal with the pain and remorse of having an unwanted child?

You think this doesn't happen? Not everyone suddenly has this blissful little life after they pop out a kid they can't afford, didn't want and/or are ill-equipped to take care of. Pregnancy itself wreaks havoc on a woman's body, something I never wish to experience.

 

[johnnys4life]

Honestly Deut, who are you trying to convince by giving me a link from Planned Parenthood's own website??

I've read TONS of information about ultrasounds before I ever had one. I know all about the supposed "risks" which are by the way only theoretical. And I have 2 very important final points to make.


First off, showing a woman who is considering abortion exactly WHO she would be aborting is not "entertainment". I cannot think of a BETTER use of an ultrasound machine. The FDA warning was issued because of complaints from ob/gyns that they were LOSING business due to people who provide ultrasounds to women for fun/photographic keepsakes. You can find these people easily by typing ultrasound in google. These people can take HOURS with the ultrasound to get the pictures they want.

It is QUITE different from a pregnancy center, where the ultrasound is performed *AGAIN USUALLY BY A DOCTOR, BUT SOMETIMES BY A CERTIFIED TECH* in a short amount of time.

2nd. If a woman is going to have a problem with aborting someone who is obviously alive, has a beating heart, a face, feels, pain, moves, etc. Then for heaven's sakes SHOW her that that's what she'd be doing!! Planned Parenthood would prefer that the child remain a nameless, faceless "clump of cells." That is of course, until the woman sees his picture on the internet, and goes and drinks herself silly, or sometimest even kills herself for what she did!

I do know for a fact that many abortionists are in it for the money, if PP is in debt that's their poor management. I do also know for a fact that PP is interested in population control/eugenics efforts. Again, READ The Pivot of Civilization, it's all there, black and white, in their own founder's handwriting. Look up Planned Parenthood and eugenics sometimes, you will have no end of reading.

Anyway, the point is that they are losing business to pregnancy centers (as well as other abortionists) and they know it. So they make up this crap and a lot of people buy it. It's rediculous. Would you rather sentence women to the kind of life where they cannot even look themselves in ther mirror when they finally find out what they did?? When do the lies stop? Do you KNOW the stats on how many women commit suicide after an abortion?? I do!

3rd. Ultrasounds are used to confirm pregnancy and due date early in labor. Ask any ob/gyn. In order for a pregnancy center to help the woman out, they need to be SURE she is pregnant and that the child has not passed away within the womb.

 

[johnnys4life]

Okay that was 3 points, but whatever. Obviously you guys are all die-hard abortion advocates. All I'm saying is that MOST women who go into a pregnancy center are not. They are just scared, poor, in bad circumstances, underprivelaged, or being used by a man. Most of them DO NOT want an abortion if there were any other way. Pregnancy centers are there to FIND a way. Planned Parenthood is there to provide abortions. (they may do a few good things on the side, like breast exams but that doesn't make up for a thing.)

They are not there to find alternatives for the woman who doesn't really want the abortion. They are not there to offer hope or help for the poor woman, the woman in a bad neighborhood, or the woman who simply does not know that the child she is carrying is really a child with a heartbeat.

I was once one of those women. I did not want to be pregnant when I first found out about my daughter. After seeing her on ultrasound, I fell in love and have been there ever since. I'm easily prone to depression, and I KNOW if I would've aborted her, I'd be in 1 of 2 places right now.

Period. End of story and yes I am done. Have fun arguing amongst yourselves.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Biased language? You mean like HEARTBEAT, FETAL PAIN, MOVEMENT??

I think she was referring to the use of inflammatory language like "MURDER" and "YOU'RE KILLING A BABY" that one of these young ladies is bombarded with by Pro-Life activists.

Please tell you deny the use of such terms, since 95% of your posts rely on just this tactic.

If you would like, we can discuss the use of the term "Baby" to describe a fetus, but I doubt that you really want to go there - since it is another clear example of attempting to obscure the true issues in the argument.

TVOR

 

[Feathers in Hair]

J4L, I really want you to be understood, and I feel badly that something is happening to make you focus again on this one issue. It delights us all when we are able to simply hear from you about you and your take on life, and I get scared when you concentrate so much on this.

To maybe make this subject a little more meaningful, I went in to Planned Parenthood about a month ago, because I cannot afford to see a doctor for a female problem I've been having. This problem has absolutely nothing to do with abortion, but if it could be taken care of, it would greatly decrease my depression. I made it very clear to the doctor that this not because I was
sexually active, and that I simply needed something to help me with this problem. The doctor said
that that wasn't an issue, and was happy to hear about what I was needing help with. She then told
me what the cost would be if she followed through with an exam and medication. I apologized and told her I would have to reschedule later.

I walked out of the office, crying.

Please think of that as you cheer on the taking away of funding for such things. I consider you a friend and hope you wouldn't be enthused that a friend had been denied help for depression due to this.

 

[Tawn]

Yeah, they plan to go to work and kill babies for a living, and then drive home in thier sports cars from the money they make. I can link you to some of the testimony of former abortionists who can confirm my original argument, that for them, and from what they say all the rest of the employees at their clinic, it was all about money, nothing else.

This is laughable. Perhaps if you didnt make your claims in such a 'theyre demon worshippers' style.. then we might take you more seriously. Calm down, take a step back and give them the benefit of the doubt.
[/quote]

ULTRASOUNDS DO NOT DAMAGE BABIES.

Doubtful, perhaps this could be proven.. if not, I guess its better to be safe than sorry. We dont even have to prove its unsafe to take the position that ultrasound should be used when reasonably necessary..