Annoying proselytizing (and preaching)

[YoursTrue]

Sorry, I don't believe in the God of the Bible as a real entity nor the stories as actual reality. I certainly don't believe that parents should still, 3,000 years on, still be trying to convince young children that it is some kind of truth they should be following. It is abusive to tell small children they need to live in fear of a devil and an authoritative God who punishes them for not believing in a bronze age, regional, culture story.

I did the whole God of the Bible story thing. It just isn't reality. And it certainly is child abuse to force that on a young mind. If you still believe it as you have grown older and discovered it on your own, well that is on you. I'm not about to let another generation fall into that trap if I can help stop the cycle of abuse.

I understand how you feel but the Israelites had certain laws about killing others, stealing, adultery and things like that. Also worship. Granted you don't believe in these things, nevertheless it was and is incumbent upon parents to raise their children. There was recently a report about sex trafficking in Florida involving young people, including those in youth homes. Many parents themselves have drug habits, are involved with activities that are illegal and have children. Clearly their children are affected.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I understand how you feel but the Israelites had certain laws about killing others, stealing, adultery and things like that. Also worship. Granted you don't believe in these things, nevertheless it was and is incumbent upon parents to raise their children. There was recently a report about sex trafficking in Florida involving young people, including those in youth homes. Many parents themselves have drug habits, are involved with activities that are illegal and have children. Clearly their children are affected.

If people need religion to tell them sex trafficking, killing and stealing are morally corrupt activities which cause harm to others, well best they stay religious. Humanists and morally intelligent people are capable of understanding these things on their own without the need of bronze age books and stories of vengeful gods and eternal damnation as a means of deterrence from participating in those activities.

There are other ways of teaching morals and self reliance such as Buddha's teachings which leave those make believe stories out of the lessons on why theft, sex trafficking and murder are wrong.

Or there is the simple lessons by observation on what type of results occur from what actions. Proselytizing to young innocent minds out of the Bible is the least beneficial means to teach children morals.

 

[YoursTrue]

If people need religion to tell them sex trafficking, killing and stealing are morally corrupt activities which cause harm to others, well best they stay religious. Humanists and morally intelligent people are capable of understanding these things on their own without the need of bronze age books and stories of vengeful gods and eternal damnation as a means of deterrence from participating in those activities.

There are other ways of teaching morals and self reliance such as Buddha's teachings which leave those make believe stories out of the lessons on why theft, sex trafficking and murder are wrong.

Or there is the simple lessons by observation on what type of results occur from what actions. Proselytizing to young innocent minds out of the Bible is the least beneficial means to teach children morals.

I disagree. For instance, recently one 10-year old boy shot and killed his mother because she refused to get his something. Children cannot learn on their own.
The main reason is that a person needs to have a relationship with God.
As Jesus said, "Why call me good? Nobody is good except one, God." Granted there .are many people who adhere to a form of religion in various parts of the world -- celebrate Christmas, birthdays, other festivities, but do not care to apply real Bible teaching to their own lives

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If people need religion to tell them sex trafficking, killing and stealing are morally corrupt activities which cause harm to others, well best they stay religious. Humanists and morally intelligent people are capable of understanding these things on their own without the need of bronze age books and stories of vengeful gods and eternal damnation as a means of deterrence from participating in those activities.

There are other ways of teaching morals and self reliance such as Buddha's teachings which leave those make believe stories out of the lessons on why theft, sex trafficking and murder are wrong.

Or there is the simple lessons by observation on what type of results occur from what actions. Proselytizing to young innocent minds out of the Bible is the least beneficial means to teach children morals.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a former Christian when I say that I don't think that anyone should look to the Bible if they want to learn about morality, least of all teach their children that the God of the Bible is moral, just, loving, and merciful. My husband and I made that mistake when our children were younger, but we were able to rectify it not long after I renounced my Christian faith. We had a long, heartfelt discussion about it together and then with our children not long after I decided to give up my personal faith. I won't go into specific details, but I will say that my family is much happier and more content with life now that we've freed ourselves to choose our own spiritual paths. And in my previous post (click here), I gave some examples of why I think it is unwise to turn to the Bible in order to learn about morality. On a side note, I believe Penn Jillette was spot on when he suggested that people don't need the Christian God in their lives to be moral or to prevent them from committing unspeakable acts of violence (read his quote here).

 

[wandering peacefully]

@Sgt. Pepper


I started the conversation with my 5 year old granddaughter a while ago. It was going fine until she started asking about going to heaven. She asked about if everyone was going and said she was going to see her teacher that died in a car accident. Well, that is just great. I certainly can't tell a 5 year old who has been told how great heaven is and she will see people she loves that there is no evidence of such a thing and most likely is untrue. That aspect will have to be something she figures out later. Luckily it was lunchtime and her younger sister and cousin were complaining so I dropped the conversation.

It just needs to end and hopefully will within a few more generations.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Sgt. Pepper

I started the conversation with my 5 year old granddaughter a while ago. It was going fine until she started asking about going to heaven. She asked about if everyone was going and said she was going to see her teacher that died in a car accident. Well, that is just great. I certainly can't tell a 5 year old who has been told how great heaven is and she will see people she loves that there is no evidence of such a thing and most likely is untrue. That aspect will have to be something she figures out later. Luckily it was lunchtime and her younger sister and cousin were complaining so I dropped the conversation.

It just needs to end and hopefully will within a few more generations.

My husband and I both wish that we had approached spirituality differently with our children when they were younger, but we know that we can't go back and change it. All we can do is change how we talk about spiritual issues today and in future conversations. My husband is a devout Christian, and he acknowledges the mistake we made indoctrinating our children, just as he and I were trained in our parents' Christian faith as children. I do know that once I started to embrace my psychic medium abilities, his and my perspectives on death and the afterlife gradually changed over time. In fact, our beliefs regarding both have dramatically changed as a result of my personal experiences as a medium and sensitive during the last fifteen years. I should also mention the years of experiences I had before then, starting with my first experience with a human spirit when I was six years old, as well as the experiences of my children.

Personally, I don't believe in the afterlife as it is represented in the Bible, nor do I believe that the spiritual realm is permanently confined to heaven and hell, assuming that these eternal realms even exist. To be honest, I've witnessed and experienced far too many paranormal events that run counter to what the Bible claims about the afterlife and death for me to continue hanging onto such beliefs. I realize that some people don't believe that it's possible for the living to interact with and communicate with the dead, but that has been my personal experience for the past fifteen years, and seeing, hearing, and feeling the presence of the dead has been a part of my life since I was six years old. Please know that I'm not trying to persuade you to believe me by sharing my personal story with you, because as far as I'm concerned, the choice to believe or not is entirely up to you. I won't debate with anyone about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That may be so as far as Jewish interpretation for many, but the Tanach has an account of Ahaz the king in Jerusalem who outrightly offered human sacrifices to Baal in the area known as Ben Hinnom.

It always entertains and amuses me when a pious Christian comes along to arrogantly tell the Jews they are doing their own religion wrong and aren't interpreting their own book correctly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@Sgt. Pepper


I started the conversation with my 5 year old granddaughter a while ago. It was going fine until she started asking about going to heaven. She asked about if everyone was going and said she was going to see her teacher that died in a car accident. Well, that is just great. I certainly can't tell a 5 year old who has been told how great heaven is and she will see people she loves that there is no evidence of such a thing and most likely is untrue. That aspect will have to be something she figures out later. Luckily it was lunchtime and her younger sister and cousin were complaining so I dropped the conversation.

It just needs to end and hopefully will within a few more generations.

It's gotta start somewhere, someone's got to take that first step (but, then again, I was constantly in trouble for doing nothing as a kid so as an aduly it's easy for me to be the bad guy and burst bubbles and get those unpleasantries done and over with).

 

[Ashoka]

It always entertains and amuses me when a pious Christian comes along to arrogantly tell the Jews they are doing their own religion wrong and aren't interpreting their own book correctly.

YES! This one gets me.

 

[wandering peacefully]

My husband and I both wish that we had approached spirituality differently with our children when they were younger, but we know that we can't go back and change it. All we can do is change how we talk about spiritual issues today and in future conversations. My husband is a devout Christian, and he acknowledges the mistake we made indoctrinating our children, just as he and I were trained in our parents' Christian faith as children. I do know that once I started to embrace my psychic medium abilities, his and my perspectives on death and the afterlife gradually changed over time. In fact, our beliefs regarding both have dramatically changed as a result of my personal experiences as a medium and sensitive during the last fifteen years. I should also mention the years of experiences I had before then, starting with my first experience with a human spirit when I was six years old, as well as the experiences of my children.

Personally, I don't believe in the afterlife as it is represented in the Bible, nor do I believe that the spiritual realm is permanently confined to heaven and hell, assuming that these eternal realms even exist. To be honest, I've witnessed and experienced far too many paranormal events that run counter to what the Bible claims about the afterlife and death for me to continue hanging onto such beliefs. I realize that some people don't believe that it's possible for the living to interact with and communicate with the dead, but that has been my personal experience for the past fifteen years, and seeing, hearing, and feeling the presence of the dead has been a part of my life since I was six years old. Please know that I'm not trying to persuade you to believe me by sharing my personal story with you, because as far as I'm concerned, the choice to believe or not is entirely up to you. I won't debate with anyone about it.

I know you wouldn't try to convince me and I had many years of spiritual experiences after Christianity and before non belief. My best friend is a person who also communicates with spirits. She knows I don't believe what she does but I never judge her or say I don't believe her. What is important is she helps others who do believe in spirits and communicating with people who have passed. It helps her and her clients and it is done in a loving and compassionate manner. Much different than the proselytizing, fear mongering, judgemental and destructive belief systems.
Thanks for sharing your journeys.

 

[wandering peacefully]

It's gotta start somewhere, someone's got to take that first step (but, then again, I was constantly in trouble for doing nothing as a kid so as an aduly it's easy for me to be the bad guy and burst bubbles and get those unpleasantries done and over with).

Yes, it has to be done. I have 3 older teenage grandchildren as well as the 3 babes 5 and under. I had the conversations with the older ones when they were young and they are all skeptics and intelligent questioners in all aspects of their lives. Happy, well behaved and well rounded without the need of someone else's religious beliefs to guide them. It is refreshing.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I disagree. For instance, recently one 10-year old boy shot and killed his mother because she refused to get his something. Children cannot learn on their own.
The main reason is that a person needs to have a relationship with God.
As Jesus said, "Why call me good? Nobody is good except one, God." Granted there .are many people who adhere to a form of religion in various parts of the world -- celebrate Christmas, birthdays, other festivities, but do not care to apply real Bible teaching to their own lives

You can teach kids to follow Jesus's teachings, although his wanting to turn families against each other doesn't sound very moral either.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, it has to be done. I have 3 older teenage grandchildren as well as the 3 babes 5 and under. I had the conversations with the older ones when they were young and they are all skeptics and intelligent questioners in all aspects of their lives. Happy, well behaved and well rounded without the need of someone else's religious beliefs to guide them. It is refreshing.

In the case of someone in your family changing gender by physical means, how would you feel about that, like would it make a difference to you as to what age they were upon transforming themselves?

 

[Vinayaka]

YES! This one gets me.

In general though, for me ... when any non-adherent of any religion starts explaining that person's religion to them.

 

[Secret Chief]

In general though, for me ... when any non-adherent of any religion starts explaining that person's religion to them.

Really? Never seen that happen

 

[Vinayaka]

Really? Never seen that happen

I laughed. Thanks.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I know you wouldn't try to convince me and I had many years of spiritual experiences after Christianity and before non belief. My best friend is a person who also communicates with spirits. She knows I don't believe what she does but I never judge her or say I don't believe her. What is important is she helps others who do believe in spirits and communicating with people who have passed. It helps her and her clients and it is done in a loving and compassionate manner. Much different than the proselytizing, fear mongering, judgemental and destructive belief systems.
Thanks for sharing your journeys.

I spent the majority of my life hiding my psychic medium abilities from other people. My husband was the first person I ever told about my abilities, and I didn't tell him until we had been married for a few years. There was a chain of events that happened in our lives that led up to me finally telling him when I was in my early thirties. I was aware that what I told him went against what he was taught to believe as a Christian, but he accepted the fact that I was telling him the truth. He had been taught as a child not to believe in ghosts and other paranormal phenomena. Fortunately for me, and as a credit to his good character as a Christian, he didn't judge me and accuse me of being out of my mind. He has always been willing to believe me and be supportive. I'm pleased to say that my husband is no longer on the fence about whether to genuinely believe in the paranormal or not because he had his own personal encounter with spirits when he accompanied me on one of my investigations in early July 2021. He witnessed poltergeist activity with his own eyes, which neither he nor the other people present could debunk. He also witnessed the real-time photos captured by both my thermal imaging and structural light sensor cameras, which neither he nor the others were able to refute. He also heard several EVPs (Electronic Voice Phenomenon) when I did burst EVP sessions with a spirit box throughout the location we were investigating.

Later, he was given access to more thermal images and digital pictures of multiple spirits that had been taken by other people who were investigating the location at the same time we were. I encouraged my husband to be actively involved in my investigation this time, and he most certainly was. I was proud of how he set aside his religious skepticism to help me investigate the location. He is no longer religiously skeptical of the existence of earthbound spirits and has come to terms with the likelihood that poltergeist activity will occasionally occur in our home or at other locations where I happen to be present. Personally, I am relieved that he genuinely believes in the paranormal now because I no longer have to conceal the unusual things that happen in our home. I tried to conceal the obvious poltergeist activity in our home for several years so it wouldn't scare him and our children. Of course, I was absolutely terrified, but I was even more afraid of him learning my secret, so I learned to live with it and deal with it on my own. It was a very lonely existence, to be honest, but I'm not alone anymore, and neither are my children, who each have varying degrees of my abilities.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know you wouldn't try to convince me and I had many years of spiritual experiences after Christianity and before non belief. My best friend is a person who also communicates with spirits. She knows I don't believe what she does but I never judge her or say I don't believe her. What is important is she helps others who do believe in spirits and communicating with people who have passed. It helps her and her clients and it is done in a loving and compassionate manner. Much different than the proselytizing, fear mongering, judgemental and destructive belief systems.
Thanks for sharing your journeys.

If she says she communicates with spirits, why don't you believe her?

 

[YoursTrue]

I spent the majority of my life hiding my psychic medium abilities from other people. My husband was the first person I ever told about my abilities, and I didn't tell him until we had been married for a few years. There was a chain of events that happened in our lives that led up to me finally telling him when I was in my early thirties. I was aware that what I told him went against what he was taught to believe as a Christian, but he accepted the fact that I was telling him the truth. He had been taught as a child not to believe in ghosts and other paranormal phenomena. Fortunately for me, and as a credit to his good character as a Christian, he didn't judge me and accuse me of being out of my mind. He has always been willing to believe me and be supportive. I'm pleased to say that my husband is no longer on the fence about whether to genuinely believe in the paranormal or not because he had his own personal encounter with spirits when he accompanied me on one of my investigations in early July 2021. He witnessed poltergeist activity with his own eyes, which neither he nor the other people present could debunk. He also witnessed the real-time photos captured by both my thermal imaging and structural light sensor cameras, which neither he nor the others were able to refute. He also heard several EVPs (Electronic Voice Phenomenon) when I did burst EVP sessions with a spirit box throughout the location we were investigating.

Later, he was given access to more thermal images and digital pictures of multiple spirits that had been taken by other people who were investigating the location at the same time we were. I encouraged my husband to be actively involved in my investigation this time, and he most certainly was. I was proud of how he set aside his religious skepticism to help me investigate the location. He is no longer religiously skeptical of the existence of earthbound spirits and has come to terms with the likelihood that poltergeist activity will occasionally occur in our home or at other locations where I happen to be present. Personally, I am relieved that he genuinely believes in the paranormal now because I no longer have to conceal the unusual things that happen in our home. I tried to conceal the obvious poltergeist activity in our home for several years so it wouldn't scare him and our children. Of course, I was absolutely terrified, but I was even more afraid of him learning my secret, so I learned to live with it and deal with it on my own. It was a very lonely existence, to be honest, but I'm not alone anymore, and neither are my children, who each have varying degrees of my abilities.

Have you ever thought these spirits might be lying to you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If she says she communicates with spirits, why don't you believe her?

Why should she?