Animals in cage.

[Spirit of Light]

Why do we humans keep animals in cage?
is it morally right to do so?
Has the animal no "voice" that we should think of before putting them in cage?

 

[PruePhillip]

Why do we humans keep animals in cage?
is it morally right to do so?
Has the animal no "voice" that we should think of before putting them in cage?

Read my tag line below.
Our society is redefining what morality is.
Increasingly we treat trees and animals better than we treat ourselves.

We are banning circuses but legalizing narcotics
We save trees and but can't do anything about family breakdown
We protect whales but sexualize our kids
Zoos are bad but porn is okay.
What is moral lies increasingly with external things like animals and
less and less with ourselves.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The morality of caging an animal is entirely dependent on the purpose of doing so.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The morality of caging an animal is entirely dependent on the purpose of doing so.

Why put animal in cage in general? why,

 

[Spirit of Light]

Read my tag line below.
Our society is redefining what morality is.
Increasingly we treat trees and animals better than we treat ourselves.

We are banning circuses but legalizing narcotics
We save trees and but can't do anything about family breakdown
We protect whales but sexualize our kids
Zoos are bad but porn is okay.
What is moral lies increasingly with external things like animals and
less and less with ourselves.

All ofyour points are showing human beings lack moral and ethic in general, maybe we need to find back to how to live a life that actually have fruitful cause, instead of destruction

 

[Jumi]

Zoos are bad but porn is okay.

Interesting comparison. Zoos are places where animals can't act completely in a natural way. Some species even have to be given medicines to keep their condition from detoriating fast, but still everyone is happy to parade them in front of people not knowing that they are suffering a non-natural environment. Though there are better zoos, as a whole the thing has almost no redeeming qualities. Where are porn is where humans are "acting naturally", no matter how boring it maybe to watch.

Both are bad, but zoos are worse. Porn at least has choice, whether you want to be an actor or consumer of it. Zoos are just places where animals live a life that is not their natural ones.

 

[Augustus]

Has the animal no "voice" that we should think of before putting them in cage?

I don't think we can say it is intrinsically immoral. In the wild, animals are subject to threats, dangers and stresses. They can starve to death, or be eaten, or break a bone and die in pain. In captivity they may live a more confined but more peaceful life. When we think they must 'prefer the wild' we are applying a romanticised human notion to other species.

On captive animals:

Studies have shown that domesticated animals are less stressed to begin with, and freak out less in response to stressful things like unfamiliar habitats or predators. Guinea pigs, for example, have serum epinephrine and norepinephrine concentrations that are four to eight times lower than their wild counterparts, cavies. They also have a reduced response when intentionally stressed by being placed in an unfamiliar cage. Similar results have been found in cats, rats, ducks and even fish. In fact, a decreased stress response compared to wild counterparts has been found in every single domesticated species that has been studied...
What we do know so far is that evidence suggests wild animals can be as happy in captivity as they are in nature, assuming they are treated well. Confinement alone doesn’t mean an animal is automatically worse off. If we give an animal all the good things they would have in the wild (food and water, fellow members of their species, a certain amount of space) and take away that stresses or hurts them (predators, parasites, extreme weather), then it can live just as happily in an enclosure. Zoo animals with proper care and enrichment, for example, have similar hormone profiles, live longer, eat better, and are healthier than their wild counterparts. Why? Because life in the wild is hard. In captivity, it’s easy.

We also know that when we change our care of an animal to try to decrease stress, we succeed. Stress hormone levels drop, for example, when leopards are given a larger enclosure or things to play with. This means we are able to modify our standards of care to ensure that any animals we place in captivity, domesticated or wild, are as happy as they can be.
Bambi or Bessie: Are wild animals happier?

Obviously putting a monkey in a tiny cage is immoral, but there is no reason to think it is fundamentally immoral to keep animals in captivity provided their welfare is given sufficient consideration.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why put animal in cage in general? why,

One very good reason is if it is a danger to itself or others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't think we can say it is intrinsically immoral. In the wild, animals are subject to threats, dangers and stresses. They can starve to death, or be eaten, or break a bine and die in pain. In captivity they may live a more confined but more peaceful life. When we think they must 'prefer the wild' we are applying a romanticised human notion to other species.

On captive animals:

Studies have shown that domesticated animals are less stressed to begin with, and freak out less in response to stressful things like unfamiliar habitats or predators. Guinea pigs, for example, have serum epinephrine and norepinephrine concentrations that are four to eight times lower than their wild counterparts, cavies. They also have a reduced response when intentionally stressed by being placed in an unfamiliar cage. Similar results have been found in cats, rats, ducks and even fish. In fact, a decreased stress response compared to wild counterparts has been found in every single domesticated species that has been studied...
What we do know so far is that evidence suggests wild animals can be as happy in captivity as they are in nature, assuming they are treated well. Confinement alone doesn’t mean an animal is automatically worse off. If we give an animal all the good things they would have in the wild (food and water, fellow members of their species, a certain amount of space) and take away that stresses or hurts them (predators, parasites, extreme weather), then it can live just as happily in an enclosure. Zoo animals with proper care and enrichment, for example, have similar hormone profiles, live longer, eat better, and are healthier than their wild counterparts. Why? Because life in the wild is hard. In captivity, it’s easy.

We also know that when we change our care of an animal to try to decrease stress, we succeed. Stress hormone levels drop, for example, when leopards are given a larger enclosure or things to play with. This means we are able to modify our standards of care to ensure that any animals we place in captivity, domesticated or wild, are as happy as they can be.
Bambi or Bessie: Are wild animals happier?

Obviously putting a monkey in a tiny cage is immoral, but there is no reason to think it is fundamentally immoral to keep animals in captivity provided their welfare is given sufficient consideration.

Would be ok to sit in a cage for the rest of your life? I think anmimals have same right to be free as you and me. I dont say your answer was wrong or bad just turning the table to see if we human could live in cage

 

[Spirit of Light]

One very good reason is if it is a danger to itself or others.

Human beings today should "in my view" become better to live in harmony with nature and animals then they are today. Yes sometimes animal can be danger to us, but then we need to give it space

 

[SalixIncendium]

Human beings today should "in my view" become better to live in harmony with nature and animals then they are today. Yes sometimes animal can be danger to us, but then we need to give it space

While a lovely sentiment, it’s not realistic in today’s society.

Should we close all of the prisons? Humans struggle to live with each other, let alone other animals.

If a bear wanders into a suburb, how many do we let it maul to death before we decide to isolate it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

While a lovely sentiment, it’s not realistic in today’s society.

Should we close all of the prisons? Humans struggle to live with each other, let alone other animals.

If a bear wanders into a suburb, how many do we let it maul to death before we decide to isolate it?

You could shoot it with drug arrow and move it a safe area in the forest. No need to kill it or cage it.
People in prison have done something wrong according to the law of the country, law made by man toward man, that is how it should be, But animals have no way to defend them self with words. so someone need to show them respect too. and i dont see a reason to harm other beings

 

[SalixIncendium]

You could shoot it with drug arrow and move it a safe area in the forest. No need to kill it or cage it.
People in prison have done something wrong according to the law of the country, law made by man toward man, that is how it should be, But animals have no way to defend them self with words. so someone need to show them respect too. and i dont see a reason to harm other beings

Let’s change the example to a dog with a history of violent behavior. What do you do with a dog that attacks people and other animals? Give it space? Shoot it with a dart and put it in a safe place in the woods?

Also, humans are animals. Help me to understand the difference between a violent person and a violent dog aside from the ability to communicate effectively.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Let’s change the example to a dog with a history of violent behavior. What do you do with a dog that attacks people and other animals? Give it space? Shoot it with a dart and put it in a safe place in the woods?

Also, humans are animals. Help me to understand the difference between a violent person and a violent dog aside from the ability to communicate effectively.

Often a Dog that is angry comes from the behavior of the owner and lack of training, in my own experience anyway.
I know that animals who are angry often only need someone who can care for it in the right way, then it will calm down. (simialr to ADHD kids actually.
In my view Humans are not animals, but that is an other discussion.

 

[PruePhillip]

I don't think we can say it is intrinsically immoral. In the wild, animals are subject to threats, dangers and stresses. They can starve to death, or be eaten, or break a bine and die in pain. In captivity they may live a more confined but more peaceful life. When we think they must 'prefer the wild' we are applying a romanticised human notion to other species.

On captive animals:

Studies have shown that domesticated animals are less stressed to begin with, and freak out less in response to stressful things like unfamiliar habitats or predators. Guinea pigs, for example, have serum epinephrine and norepinephrine concentrations that are four to eight times lower than their wild counterparts, cavies. They also have a reduced response when intentionally stressed by being placed in an unfamiliar cage. Similar results have been found in cats, rats, ducks and even fish. In fact, a decreased stress response compared to wild counterparts has been found in every single domesticated species that has been studied...
What we do know so far is that evidence suggests wild animals can be as happy in captivity as they are in nature, assuming they are treated well. Confinement alone doesn’t mean an animal is automatically worse off. If we give an animal all the good things they would have in the wild (food and water, fellow members of their species, a certain amount of space) and take away that stresses or hurts them (predators, parasites, extreme weather), then it can live just as happily in an enclosure. Zoo animals with proper care and enrichment, for example, have similar hormone profiles, live longer, eat better, and are healthier than their wild counterparts. Why? Because life in the wild is hard. In captivity, it’s easy.

We also know that when we change our care of an animal to try to decrease stress, we succeed. Stress hormone levels drop, for example, when leopards are given a larger enclosure or things to play with. This means we are able to modify our standards of care to ensure that any animals we place in captivity, domesticated or wild, are as happy as they can be.
Bambi or Bessie: Are wild animals happier?

Obviously putting a monkey in a tiny cage is immoral, but there is no reason to think it is fundamentally immoral to keep animals in captivity provided their welfare is given sufficient consideration.

The author and wildlife expert Gerald Durrel recounts an expedition to some Sth American
country. He collected many birds. But he had to release them upon hearing of a revolution
in that country. To his surprise the birds refused to leave - they were on a good thing with
free food, water, protection and shelter.

 

[Augustus]

Would be ok to sit in a cage for the rest of your life? I think anmimals have same right to be free as you and me. I dont say your answer was wrong or bad just turning the table to see if we human could live in cage

Another way of looking at it:

If you asked all the people in the world who constantly live with a sense of nutritional, physical, social and economic insecurity if they would like to move into an all expenses paid luxury hotel complex, gardens, pool, etc. with family and friends with access to entertainments and learning resources, the only catch being they could never leave the complex again, what percentage do you believe would say yes?

If I had to live worrying about where my next meal was coming from, or being attacked by violent thugs, or losing the roof over my head, I'd probably say yes.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Another way of looking at it:

If you asked all the people in the world who constantly live with a sense of nutritional, physical, social and economic insecurity if they would like to move into an all expenses paid luxury hotel complex, gardens, pool, etc. with family and friends with access to entertainments and learning resources, the only catch being they could never leave the complex again, what percentage do you believe would say yes?

If I had to live worrying about where my next meal was coming from, or being attacked by violent thugs, or losing the roof over my head, I'd probably say yes.

Animals are wild for a reason. Humans are not animals, yes we have some worries in life, just like animals do, but that does no make us master of the animals

 

[Augustus]

Humans are not animals

Yes we are.

Animals are wild for a reason.

Domesticated animals aren't wild. Why do they allow themselves to be domesticated? Cats and dogs could run away from home if they wanted to for example.

Seeing as not all species could live in the wild, if we chose to 'free' all animals certain species would die out.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes we are.



Domesticated animals aren't wild. Why do they allow themselves to be domesticated? Cats and dogs could run away from home if they wanted to for example.

Seeing as not all species could live in the wild, if we chose to 'free' all animals certain species would die out.

In the beginning before we humans domsticated animals they all was free and "wild" so in a sense we are the reason they are domesticated. we made them "used" to being with us, that does not mean it is the right way.

 

[Augustus]

In the beginning before we humans domsticated animals they all was free and "wild" so in a sense we are the reason they are domesticated. we made them "used" to being with us, that does not mean it is the right way.

Animals adapt to their environment same as humans do.

Some fish evolved to swim around sharks and clean their teeth in exchange for a meal. All kinds of flora and fauna evolved to have a symbiotic relationship with another species.

Is this also wrong?