"Animals are to serve humans"

[Me Myself]

I see, thanks for the explanation. In spanish there's no term such as "vegan" so we also call them vegetarians

Claro que lo hay. Se les dicen "veganos"

 

[Me Myself]

Can you find your food in common supermarkets?

Is your food as cheap as the non-vegetarians food?

Don't you have to carefuly control your diet so you can be as healthy as a non-vegetarian?

I already know the answers, but maybe where you live it is easier and cheaper to be a vegetarian so it's ok.

Yes

Yes

Not as hard as it sounds. It´s really easy really, just have to know what you are doing.

Well, it´s as uncomon as anywhere else I wold guess xD. I am not to try to force you to become a vegetarian, but to say that you eat meat to "live" is kind of unprecise. You eat meat because it tastes yummy

 

[otokage007]

Claro que lo hay. Se les dicen "veganos"

You are right, I found it in the dictionary already lol

Well, it´s as uncomon as anywhere else I wold guess xD. I am not to try to force you to become a vegetarian, but to say that you eat meat to "live" is kind of unprecise. You eat meat because it tastes yummy

Of course. I eat meat because I like meat. However, if you go the nutritionist, they don't recommend you to be a vegetarian. I guess this is because if you don't know what you are doing, you can endanger your health.

I'm not against animal killing if it's for eat them. Animals do that, and I consider myself an animal

 

[Me Myself]

You are right, I found it in the dictionary already lol



Of course. I eat meat because I like meat. However, if you go the nutritionist, they don't recommend you to be a vegetarian. I guess this is because if you don't know what you are doing, you can endanger your health.

THe AAD (american dietary association) says that a vegetarian diet can be healthier than any other in every stage of human development if done accordingly.

Animals eat meat bnecause they have to. We humans don´t. We do it because we like it. (with some ecceptions)

 

[work in progress]

Can you find your food in common supermarkets?

Is your food as cheap as the non-vegetarians food?

It is if you have the time to learn how to cook from scratch. You'll be buying a whole new group of spices, learn to cook dried beans, and try vegetables you always ignored before in the produce aisle.

If you buy packaged tofu imitation meats, then you're spending more money than you would on actual meat for what is usually an unhealthy food choice.

Don't you have to carefuly control your diet so you can be as healthy as a non-vegetarian?

I don't want to speak on behalf of Hindus or other vegans who are doing it for religious reasons, but for most practical vegans, it is almost impossible to maintain a normal lifestyle and not consume a small amount of meat during the week. At least it is for myself, because our family goes out for dinner once a week....and good luck getting everyone to go to an Indian restaurant every week!

I'm likely a one meat meal per week vegan, if there is such a thing. The point is the less animal products you consume, especially dairy products, the lower your LDL cholesterol levels and blood pressure. This was the primary motivator for me going vegan - I have high hereditary predisposition towards these problems that all of the exercise and weight control cannot control without eliminating cholesterols in the food I eat. Certainly the ethical considerations of factory farming...which produces 99% of the meat and dairy products on the supermarket aisle was the other biggie that kept me from going back to my previous diet. Modern meat and dairy industries are not only an ethical nightmare, they are also responsible for a large portion of the environmental problems we have today.

Anyway, the less meat and dairy products you consume, the healthier you will be. Most North Americans consume many times more meat and dairy than is healthy, and the resulting heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes problems are a huge drain on already strained health care systems.

Those of us baby boomers, who are advancing towards our senior years, have a moral duty to do what we can to preserve our health....not just for our own needs and personal satisfaction, but to be a lesser burden on society as we get older.

 

[Acim]

What is your point here?
If I ask my brother to kill my neighbor then it would be ok because I don't do the killing myself?!
Or did I miss the point?

You missed the point. I was noting that food I eat was once alive and I eat it when it is dead, but I don't do that killing myself. If anything I think it is a little selfish of me, but I got over whatever attachment one might have to shame on this about 10 years ago.

 

[Acim]

I never did understand why killing plants is just fine bu killing animals is somehow a big no no.

Yay, me and Mestemia agree on something.

I do think we've heard and have some understanding of the arguments, but I do find it arguable, up to a point. Some people (let's call them pet owners) get very emotional on this subject and debate can be akin to talking about eating someone's child.

I know people who've had plants for years and have certain kinship with it. It is similar and to say it completely different ignores what life is, while also demonstrating human bias. You're okay killing corn stalks so you can eat corn? That's fine. Just realize some humans would be okay eating dogs. Just the way things are, and likely always will be.

 

[Me Myself]

I never did understand why killing plants is just fine bu killing animals is somehow a big no no.

If you cannot understand, do not. The principle is simple:

An animal is able to feel physical and psychological pain.

A plant is not.

Now if you care or not for the animal´s pain is entirely apt to you, but that is the general principle.

 

[Madhuri]

I never did understand why killing plants is just fine bu killing animals is somehow a big no no.

Do you believe that plants are conscious, that they think and feel emotion and pain?
If not, then right there is the huge gap between plants and animals.

Some people do believe that plants are conscious entities with feelings and relationships. Some of those people make effort to only eat from plants that produce fruit/veges that do not involve killing the plant (because the tree is the body, the fruit are not individual organisms).

 

[McBell]

Yay, me and Mestemia agree on something.

It was bound to happen sooner or later...

I do think we've heard and have some understanding of the arguments, but I do find it arguable, up to a point. Some people (let's call them pet owners) get very emotional on this subject and debate can be akin to talking about eating someone's child.

I know people who've had plants for years and have certain kinship with it. It is similar and to say it completely different ignores what life is, while also demonstrating human bias. You're okay killing corn stalks so you can eat corn? That's fine. Just realize some humans would be okay eating dogs. Just the way things are, and likely always will be.

I understand that people put different values on life.
The whole "Sanctity of Life" idea is nothing more than a big bunch of crap.

If you cannot understand, do not. The principle is simple:

An animal is able to feel physical and psychological pain.

A plant is not.

Now if you care or not for the animal´s pain is entirely apt to you, but that is the general principle.

I recall reading an article or three that seems to dispute the thought that plants do not feel pain...

Do you believe that plants are conscious, that they think and feel emotion and pain?
If not, then right there is the huge gap between plants and animals.

So it is not "life" that is sacred, it is life that most resembles humans that is sacred?

Some people do believe that plants are conscious entities with feelings and relationships. Some of those people make effort to only eat from plants that produce fruit/veges that do not involve killing the plant (because the tree is the body, the fruit are not individual organisms).

Ah, so it would be like eating a big bowl of ovum's, right?

 

[Madhuri]

So it is not "life" that is sacred, it is life that most resembles humans that is sacred?

I don't subscribe to the 'life is sacred' mentality. Everything is sacred if we wish to see it that way.
My morality is based on conscious experience. Anything that can feel pain or suffer is worth making efforts to accommodate for. The least of which is to minimise suffering where it is possible.

This has nothing to do with 'resembling humans'. It is recognised that animals experience pain, emotion, suffering.

Ah, so it would be like eating a big bowl of ovum's, right?

Not really.

 

[Acim]

Mmmmmmmm, big bowl of ovums

(insert Homer Simpson drooling sound here)

 

[McBell]

This has nothing to do with 'resembling humans'. It is recognised that animals experience pain, emotion, suffering.

Really?
Animals resemble humans by experiencing pain, emotion and suffering.

You yourself said that plants do not experience pain, emotion, suffering.
So how is this NOT resembling humans?

Not really.

So it would be more like eating chicken eggs...
Or perhaps caviar?

 

[Madhuri]

Really?
Animals resemble humans by experiencing pain, emotion and suffering.

You yourself said that plants do not experience pain, emotion, suffering.
So how is this NOT resembling humans?

It's in the thinking process. The thinking is not "it's human-like, therefore it deserves sympathy". The thinking is "it suffers, therefore it deserves sympathy". Does that make sense to you?

So it would be more like eating chicken eggs...
Or perhaps caviar?

I know you are smarter than this, so I assume you're just giving me a hard time.

 

[McBell]

It's in the thinking process. The thinking is not "it's human-like, therefore it deserves sympathy". The thinking is "it suffers, therefore it deserves sympathy". Does that make sense to you?

Yes it does.
You seem to be missing the point though.

I know you are smarter than this, so I assume you're just giving me a hard time.

I am trying to figure out just how the "fruit" of the plant lines up in animal terms.
I mean the fruit is where the seed is, right?
The seed is likened to the fertilized egg of an animal, right?

 

[Madhuri]

Yes it does.
You seem to be missing the point though.

What point am I missing?

I am trying to figure out just how the "fruit" of the plant lines up in animal terms.
I mean the fruit is where the seed is, right?
The seed is likened to the fertilized egg of an animal, right?

Who cares?

 

[idav]

What do you think?

Are animals a mere slaves of we humans?

Are animal rights important at all?

Discuss

Animals just aren't good at following orders.

Sure animal rights are important as long as they contribute.....oops, i meant...... they have inalienable rights and stuff.....

 

[otokage007]

I was wondering if the vegans here dress only with vegetal-tissue and syntethic clothes. Or do you use leather shoes or jackets, fur and stuff?

 

[Big_TJ]

depends on how hungry you are. lol

I agree!

I always believe that chickens have the right to be deep-fried.:yes:

 

[Valjean]

I was wondering if the vegans here dress only with vegetal-tissue and syntethic clothes. Or do you use leather shoes or jackets, fur and stuff?

Plant-based and synthetic. Shoes are the biggest problem.

What do you think?

Are animals a mere slaves of we humans?

Are animal rights important at all?

Discuss

Yes. Domestic animals in particular have been human 'slaves' since the dawn of agriculture and perhaps before. Animal domestication and husbandry enabled us to exploit previously useless or unavailable resources. Animals made permanent settlements possible and lifestyles more complex than hunter-gatherer.

Yes, in my opinion we have a moral obligation to those consciously affected by our actions, regardless of leg number.