Am I a theistic luciferian?

[LuminaRosa]

I'm brand new to this forum, and in search of community.

For most of my life I've struggle with Christian beliefs and theology, intuitively knowing there was a kernel of truth in those teachings, but unable to reconcile myself to the Problem of Evil (theodicy).

I came to believe that IF there is evil in the universe, that evil is equivalent to, or resides within the Judaeo-Christian God...

I read the story of Genesis as a story of humanity's coming to terms with the inherent wickedness of 'God's creation'.

I'm always struck by the ascription of Psalm 22:1 as spoken by Jesus on the cross (Matthew), and eerieness of the Gospel of Mark's ending (or lack thereof). Of course there are apologetics which address these, but prima facie, I'm always left with the sense that Jesus was betrayed by God.


I've also always wondered at the "angel" at the tomb who announced the resurrection to the Marys and Salome. Was that Lucifer? Was Christ reborn a comrade of Lucifer?

What a strange 'gospel' for early Christian communities.

These days I continue very much to feel that there is a spiritual-ness or soulfulness to existence, and cannot relate to strict atheists or agnostics. I am constantly drawn to the image of the white-robed figure at the tomb and to wondering if our ability to experience and value the "goodness", beauty and mystery of life is ascribable to... well the Luciferian aspect of our natures.

So that's my rambling thoughts!

 

[Iti oj]

hzah welcome to the forum and the dir. Good to have you and some interesting thoughts. most of the time i ignore/feel nothing/ hold no importance over the god of Abraham and its various religions. But when i do "see it" i also see god as evil. haha something to be over thrown and to put human kind in his place.

That being said jesus god satan etc have little to nothing to do with my non theistic version/understanding. anywhos welcome

 

[1137]

Welcome.
I'm always interested on the take of an actual entity / force that is Lucifer. Personally I hold it as a title / archetype rather than some specific thing. I was wondering if you could elaborate on how you feel God betrayed Christ? Also I recommend looking into Gnosticism and seeing if it helps you sort out out beliefs further.

As for now (if ever) I can't tell you whether you are or are not a Luciferian, you haven't shared an awful lot of your beliefs. If I had to make an assumption based on what you've provided I would label you a Satanist rather than Luciferian if anything.

 

[LuminaRosa]

Thanks for the welcome!

The psalm I mentioned is from Matthew, of Christ on Golgatha: 'About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").' There are all manner of Christian apologetics written on this, but of all the quotes available from King David's psalms, this one is chosen by Christ...???

I'm not sure about Satanism... I associate it with carnality, passionate live-life-at-full-tilt etc and I'm definitely an aesthete/ascetic/spiritual type... I read the Satanic Bible and can't relate to LeVay at all...

I also don't know anything about Satan other than as the accuser in the Garden of Eden. the wise serpent archetype... But do know that Satan and Lucifer, in the long history of the Catholic Church's mythic melting pot, came to be synonymous... And then Milton wrote Paradise Lost and, wow I was in love and cheering for the 'wrong' side when I read that book! Here's a link to a really great set of lectures on Yale Courses (did I mention I'm a boring intellectual type who gets excited by lecture series?)

Lucifer is, to me, the archetypal "fallen" angel (I really adore the book of Enoch)...
in the Jungian sense, I believe in Lucifer as a psychic reality...
as spiritual/soul energy that lights up the world from the inside...
and, just in terms of the art, poetry and music the name has inspired, impossibly beautiful...

Strictly speaking, does the name Lucifer designate anything other than the morning star/Phophorous/Venus?

I've just started reading "From Gabriel to Lucifer" by Valerie Rees. I'm hoping to get clearer...

Are folks here more into ancient Babylonia deities et cetera?

 

[1137]

Haha now I see why you'd fit here better, especially as the ranting intellectual type. I mean there's no set dogma or even really beliefs here, except of course some deep connection with Lucifer, whatever that is to you. For me the title designates what it stands for, to bear light, bear indicating the harshness and light indicating knowledge, both objective and subjective. As for Babylonian myth, I'm not very into it. I personally favor Egyptian mythology. Specifically Khepri (literal light bearer), Ra (literal light), Thoth (God of knowledge / writing), Ma'at (truth), and Nun (the primordial abyss). Story wise I like Jewish and sometimes Christian tales and scriptures as well.

 

[1137]

Throw Set in for good measure as the subjective truth to Ma'at's objective truth.

 

[LuminaRosa]

I've been really exploring this Luciferian business for the past several days, and on another site connected with someone who mentioned a Lugh / Lucifer parallel... and I have to say, having looked into this, I feel exhilarated by the 'rightness' not just of old Celtic folklore, but of the Druidic path, which chimes so much with my way of life and my ancestral roots... So my quest for a spiritual home continues, but alas elsewhere...

Thank you all for your patience with me and your input!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you are asking, maybe not. It's not a question, but something you know. Not to say you may not fully know yet, but if you are there isn't much of a need to ask. Looking inwards rather than outwards will provide the best answers.

 

[1137]

Well she did spend like an entire week studying it haha

 

[Thrice Great]

Lucifer is a Collective Name for Spiritual Freedom. Non-Theistic Luciferians, as myself, are not concerned about Abrahamic symbolism, we understand that archetypal images such as demons and angels or any forms of a god are merely symbols towards stirring the Psyche. Metaphorically speaking, Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes. Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis and is Truth and Divine Knowledge.

Lucifer and modern day Luciferianism does not adhere to any associations with Abrahamic religions. Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 BCE and Lucifer is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 C.E.

Lucifer is the Morning Star announcing daily birth of the sun. The Canaanites called him Shaher, the Hebrews Shaharit, “Morning Service” commemorating him. His twin brother, Shalem, the Evening Star, announced the daily death of the sun.

The Morning Star was the god, at times referred to as a bird, Benu to the Egyptians. He was the dying‑and‑reborn Phoenix, called the "Soul of Ram" who died on the World Tree in order to renew himself so to "shine on the world."
- excerpts taken from "The Book of Lucifer" © Herald of the Dawn 2013

In this Light it should be clear that to understand Luciferian Principles one needs to look far away from the corrupted Abrahamic view of Lucifer and His association with Satan.

 

[crossfire]

Lucifer is a Collective Name for Spiritual Freedom. Non-Theistic Luciferians, as myself, are not concerned about Abrahamic symbolism, we understand that archetypal images such as demons and angels or any forms of a god are merely symbols towards stirring the Psyche. Metaphorically speaking, Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes. Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis and is Truth and Divine Knowledge.

In this Light it should be clear that to understand Luciferian Principles one needs to look far away from the corrupted Abrahamic view of Lucifer and His association with Satan.

Oh, you mean like this one?
2 Peter 1:19

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star {Greek: phōsphoros} arise in your hearts:​

My apologies for the biblical quote in the DIR. I think it is relevant. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Thrice Great]

Oh, you mean like this one?
2 Peter 1:19

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:​

My apologies for the biblical quote in the DIR. I think it is relevant. Your mileage may vary.

I prefer the New Living Translation (©2007)
"Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place--until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts."

 

[crossfire]

So Luciferianism is about consciousness raising? Hesperus (the evening star) signifies the draw to the quest for discovery--where you search, discover, and build discipline, and Phosphorus (the morning star) signifies the integration of what you have discovered and learned into true understanding--where you can apply this knowledge in new and creative ways?

{Question from a wandering heretic in this blue DIR. }

 

[Thrice Great]

So Luciferianism is about consciousness raising? Hesperus (the evening star) signifies the draw to the quest for discovery--where you search, discover, and build discipline, and Phosphorus (the morning star) signifies the integration of what you have discovered and learned into true understanding--where you can apply this knowledge in new and creative ways?

{Question from a wandering heretic in this blue DIR. }

I wouldn't disagree with your analysis.

 

[Iti oj]

So Luciferianism is about consciousness raising? Hesperus (the evening star) signifies the draw to the quest for discovery--where you search, discover, and build discipline, and Phosphorus (the morning star) signifies the integration of what you have discovered and learned into true understanding--where you can apply this knowledge in new and creative ways?

{Question from a wandering heretic in this blue DIR. }

I think this is a basline. But their is more too it.

 

[crossfire]

I think this is a basline. But their is more too it.

Well, going with the whole Venus theme of consciousness raising: what do you think of this?

• The realization that the morning star and the evening star are both the same thing--the planet Venus
• The realization of the "star of Venus" with the Venus transits
  
  

 

[crossfire]

Oops! I forgot the realization of heliocentric model as compared to geocentric model because Venus also phases much like our moon does, while the planets further out from the sun than earth do not have phases.

 

[Thrice Great]

Well, going with the whole Venus theme of consciousness raising: what do you think of this?

• The realization that the morning star and the evening star are both the same thing--the planet Venus
• The realization of the "star of Venus" with the Venus transits

Was an interesting event, but I wasn't convinced that it raised anyone's Luciferian Consciousness.

Lucifer is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 C.E (Roman) Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 BCE

In Greek mythology, Hesperus, the Evening Star is the son of the dawn goddess Eos (Roman equivalent: Aurora) and brother of Eosphorus the Morning Star (Eosphoros "dawn-bearer"; also Phosphorus, Lucifer "light-bearer").

Hesperus is the personification of the "evening star", the planet Venus in the evening. His name is sometimes conflated with the names for his brother the personification of the planet as the "morning star" Eosphorus ("bearer of dawn") or Phosphorus ("bearer of light"), since they are all personifications of the same planet Venus.

"Heosphoros" in the Greek LXX Septuagint and "Lucifer" in Jerome's Latin Vulgate were used to translate the Hebrew "Helel" (Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one), "son of Shahar (Dawn)" in the Hebrew version of Isaiah 14:12.

When named thus by the early Greeks, it was thought that Eosphorus (Venus in the morning) and Hesperos (Venus in the evening) were two different celestial objects. The Greeks later accepted the Babylonian view that the two were the same, and the Babylonian identification of the planets with the Great Gods, and dedicated the "wandering star" (planet) to Aphrodite (Roman Venus), as the equivalent.

 

[crossfire]

Was an interesting event, but I wasn't convinced that it raised anyone's Luciferian Consciousness.

The frameworks we build to encourage understanding is not understanding in and of itself. Back to the drawing board: where does understanding come from?

 

[Thrice Great]

In order to speak about this, first we need to define what "Understanding" is.

Understanding is a psychological process related to an abstract or physical object, such as a person, situation, or message whereby one is able to think about it and use concepts to deal adequately with that object. Understanding is a relation between the knower and an object of understanding.

We assign meaning to the objective through our subjective, an understanding of something can be and usually is, clouded up with internal roadblocks and ego.

In Luciferianism we refer to Gnosis as a sort of Satori, in which the 'truth' of the matter becomes crystal clear if even for a fleeting moment. This would provide the greatest human form of Understanding.