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Altered state of consciousness/Substances
- Thread starter EyeofOdin
- Start date
Assuming that by "substances" you really mean hallucinogenic psychotropics, then no. The vast majority of them are illegal in my country, and even if it weren't for that factor, I don't have much interest in them. Why would I use a substance that causes loss of control to produce a state that I can already create using other methods that don't produce such loss of control? Also, given the potentially severe side effects of using hallucinogenic psychotropics, I would not be foolish enough to attempt experimentation on my own.
That said, use of hallucinogenic psychotropics for religious reasons is perhaps the only case where I approve of using such substances at all. I'm against irresponsible and frivolous use of any class of psychotropics, but that's neither here nor there with respect to this thread, I imagine.
That said, use of hallucinogenic psychotropics for religious reasons is perhaps the only case where I approve of using such substances at all. I'm against irresponsible and frivolous use of any class of psychotropics, but that's neither here nor there with respect to this thread, I imagine.
Contemplative Cat
energy formation
In the beginning of what people call the spiritual journey, they helped unlock deeper parts of the mind and "expand" consciousness. Poisons that help negate the senses and dive into a spirit world
For beginners there is no doubt that psychs are helpful, but the experience can be so physically traumatic that it can knock you off base.
Its best that once people get HIGH, they quit getting high. As in let the medicine teach you, then once you've learned what you can from it stop. Ya don't want to mess with the bodies hormones to much or you wont have the equinamity to stay in that state.
For beginners there is no doubt that psychs are helpful, but the experience can be so physically traumatic that it can knock you off base.
Its best that once people get HIGH, they quit getting high. As in let the medicine teach you, then once you've learned what you can from it stop. Ya don't want to mess with the bodies hormones to much or you wont have the equinamity to stay in that state.
S divinorum will 'collapse the universe' for a few seconds, but mystical insight's not likely to come from it other than, perhaps, the insubstantiality of reality. It also has a high scarey factor and you'll be absolutely out of control for a minute. Not safe to take alone.
Not good or "inner work," in my opinion.
Cannabis doesn't substantially alter level of consciousness except in massive doses such as eaten hashish. People don't do this anymore, so I don't know much about it. Maybe you could consult some of the older literature about it like Fritz Ludlow's The Hashish Eater.
Ayahuasca is a whole different kettle of fish, and it's a true entheogen -- it can decode Reality.
But it's not something you can take casually and can be dangerous if you have any substantial amount of Tyramine in your system. It's also not a single drug or even a single combination. It's an Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor (MAOI) plus a Dimethyltriptamine (DMT) source
-- and there are different formulations. Some don't even use actual B. caapi (ayahuasca vine) as the MAOI.
Not good or "inner work," in my opinion.
Cannabis doesn't substantially alter level of consciousness except in massive doses such as eaten hashish. People don't do this anymore, so I don't know much about it. Maybe you could consult some of the older literature about it like Fritz Ludlow's The Hashish Eater.
Ayahuasca is a whole different kettle of fish, and it's a true entheogen -- it can decode Reality.
But it's not something you can take casually and can be dangerous if you have any substantial amount of Tyramine in your system. It's also not a single drug or even a single combination. It's an Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor (MAOI) plus a Dimethyltriptamine (DMT) source
-- and there are different formulations. Some don't even use actual B. caapi (ayahuasca vine) as the MAOI.
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The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Most "mystical" substances are illegal in my country, let alone extremely hard to find in my area.
Legal mind altering, though, I have been doing a lot of recently. Sure, recreationally. But I at some instances I will be deliriant enough to work with it as a spiritual-like tool, although I wouldn't exactly call it spiritually, that just seems like it's a totally different thing. I would replace that term with "magically". I'm not working with gods or demons, instead with my inner persons. It's not anything like I'm talking to ghosts, far from it, this is a delirium, not a psychedelic, and deliriums are realistic hallucinations, nothing cartoonish.
The feeling from it, though, will occasionally give me somewhat of an ability to mesh around in my mind, kind of like making propositions with my ID and finding weaknesses and counterbalances of my Superego.
Legal mind altering, though, I have been doing a lot of recently. Sure, recreationally. But I at some instances I will be deliriant enough to work with it as a spiritual-like tool, although I wouldn't exactly call it spiritually, that just seems like it's a totally different thing. I would replace that term with "magically". I'm not working with gods or demons, instead with my inner persons. It's not anything like I'm talking to ghosts, far from it, this is a delirium, not a psychedelic, and deliriums are realistic hallucinations, nothing cartoonish.
The feeling from it, though, will occasionally give me somewhat of an ability to mesh around in my mind, kind of like making propositions with my ID and finding weaknesses and counterbalances of my Superego.
@Seyorni
I would have to disagree with you about cannabis. In most of the smoking sessions I've done (all of which have been legal btw), my friends and I, instead of giggling like a bunch of dumb teenagers, we talked about abstract and deep concepts, such as politics, reality and even spirituality, even though most of them were atheists. Some of these sessions I might add only consisted of less than a gram between the three or four of us (granted I and another don't have high tolerance and the other two do).
One time we even tried to read each other's minds, and with practice, it worked!
Cannabis hemp can greatly help someone who's wanting to focus more on spiritual concepts, which in my opinion is another one of many reasons it needs to be legal across the industrialized world.
@Contemplative cat
I would have to disagree with your statement saying that it can be useful to beginners who want to enter spirit working. In my opinion one should master altering your state of consciousness before going to the substances. Learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run, and right now don't even think about flying.
I would have to disagree with you about cannabis. In most of the smoking sessions I've done (all of which have been legal btw), my friends and I, instead of giggling like a bunch of dumb teenagers, we talked about abstract and deep concepts, such as politics, reality and even spirituality, even though most of them were atheists. Some of these sessions I might add only consisted of less than a gram between the three or four of us (granted I and another don't have high tolerance and the other two do).
One time we even tried to read each other's minds, and with practice, it worked!
Cannabis hemp can greatly help someone who's wanting to focus more on spiritual concepts, which in my opinion is another one of many reasons it needs to be legal across the industrialized world.
@Contemplative cat
I would have to disagree with your statement saying that it can be useful to beginners who want to enter spirit working. In my opinion one should master altering your state of consciousness before going to the substances. Learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run, and right now don't even think about flying.
That's why I used "substantially" in my statement about Cannabis, Odinseye. I'm not saying Cannabis isn't psychoactive or that it doesn't substantially alter your thought process. I'm saying that your average pot smoker is still in this world, still able to carry on a normal conversation, &c. He's still 'hinged'.
Low doses of pot don't unweave the world, they don't allow you to see beyond the projection, they don't dissolve maya.
Low doses of pot don't unweave the world, they don't allow you to see beyond the projection, they don't dissolve maya.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Then there are some of us who no longer need the help of external agents to deconstruct reality... :drool:
I would caution that you again use the term "generally" or something similar: depends on the preparation and on characteristics of the individual--and/or on whether or not the spirit of cannabis wishes to impart knowledge/experience to the user.
True that
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Pfffft.
Contemplative Cat
energy formation
When i was a reckless teenager, I would have intense out of body five hour meditation sessions
from eating a lot of dextromethorithan and practice yogas.
I thought it was Magical, but after a while it just turns into doing drugs.
You push your luck too far.
I had no Guru, and was depressed and opted to take Dec til I died or until I became "enlightened" Whateva that meant. A really spiritually frustrating time.
After four days of silently tripping while meditating something happened. The soul was realized as infinite space. It is the purusra of sankhya yoga.
this was satisfying but not complete enlightenment. Ya need to rid the mind of attachments for that.
But basically it allowed the mind to break through the glass ceiling without a guru.
Now reality is apparent all that is left is a perfection of bodily habits, or good qualities.
They rearrange the brain, its a risk, but it can possibly work out okay.
from eating a lot of dextromethorithan and practice yogas.
I thought it was Magical, but after a while it just turns into doing drugs.
You push your luck too far.
I had no Guru, and was depressed and opted to take Dec til I died or until I became "enlightened" Whateva that meant. A really spiritually frustrating time.
After four days of silently tripping while meditating something happened. The soul was realized as infinite space. It is the purusra of sankhya yoga.
this was satisfying but not complete enlightenment. Ya need to rid the mind of attachments for that.
But basically it allowed the mind to break through the glass ceiling without a guru.
Now reality is apparent all that is left is a perfection of bodily habits, or good qualities.
They rearrange the brain, its a risk, but it can possibly work out okay.
NobodyYouKnow
Misanthropist
All I can say, that in small quantities, in moderation, cannabis can be useful.
When one uses any drug over/during a long period of time, their body builds up a resistance to it...a tolerance...so the more infrequently you smoke and the less you do, the more it will kick you in the jewels when it does.
I'm not saying that cannabis is necessary or important for meditation or spiritual practices, but being an infrequent smoker myself, it can loosen inhibitions and get you in that 'mindspace' for meditation and such...so can other things, just not as fast.
I cannot say 'don't smoke dope, it is bad' either, or I would be the biggest hypocrite.
In fact, I seem to be able to express myself more and have others understand me more when I am high. When I am not, I am just an incoherent, babbling mess.
It's easy to tell when I am posting totally smashed...if you know what you are looking for.
When one uses any drug over/during a long period of time, their body builds up a resistance to it...a tolerance...so the more infrequently you smoke and the less you do, the more it will kick you in the jewels when it does.
I'm not saying that cannabis is necessary or important for meditation or spiritual practices, but being an infrequent smoker myself, it can loosen inhibitions and get you in that 'mindspace' for meditation and such...so can other things, just not as fast.
I cannot say 'don't smoke dope, it is bad' either, or I would be the biggest hypocrite.
In fact, I seem to be able to express myself more and have others understand me more when I am high. When I am not, I am just an incoherent, babbling mess.
It's easy to tell when I am posting totally smashed...if you know what you are looking for.
TurkeyOnRye
Well-Known Member
I used to take a variety of substances specifically for self-exploration/expansion. I suppose they were helpful at the time, but I no longer require or desire to use them. I used to think of them as a key to open the door life-changing experiences. Those experiences now--without using such substances--have a certain clarity and sense of ownership. Why use a key when the door is already open?
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
What really bakes your cookies is when you FINALLY understand that said doors were never closed.
I had an experience almost exactly like that!!I took a lot of DXM too, and I took it for spiritual reasons, and also I was skyping my friend at the same time to suffice as a trip sitter.
It was an amazing experience, but scary. I had taken 24 pills, which is the equivalent of taking 720 mil, which I don't recommend, it was actually quite dumb of me. I'm pretty sure that I turned yellow at some point, which most people know is a bad sign.
But I simply felt so "in between" if that makes any sense. I could feel and see my ancestors and the gods standing there, watching over me, partly with disappointment that I was being so confused and reckless, and partly with care and protection. I didn't "see" them, like I didn't hallucinate, but it was as if they were flowing through me, in me, around me and above me. If feeling them was placebo, it was the most intense placebo I've ever experienced.
Physically I was well aware that I was in my apartment, on my laptop, not really doing anything, but mentally I felt I was floating in between the realms of the living and the dead, and I had an intense realization of how short life is, how abrupt death is, and what it would really be like. How my spirit may or may not go into the realm of the dead, but my consciousness wouldn't exist anymore. It would be nothing, and I had a moment when I actually knew what that meant and could almost feel it.
It may have constituted as a near death experience. It was scary, dangerous and extremely spiritual.
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NobodyYouKnow
Misanthropist
Just to see the difference in myself, on and off:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3603868-post13.html - with.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3609594-post41.html - without.
Just get me into a debate on Brahman absolute. If I can be bothered even trying to explain it...you know. lol
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3603868-post13.html - with.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3609594-post41.html - without.
Just get me into a debate on Brahman absolute. If I can be bothered even trying to explain it...you know. lol
apophenia
Well-Known Member
You surprise me Seyorni. When did this happen ? LOL
For completeness, a little relevant and legal botany. For the tryptamines, people in the US should grow Desmanthus Illinoensis. The Illinois Bundle Flower. The root bark is the source, so this is a longer term proposition. Another commonly used source of tryptamines is phalaris grass. Millions of hectares of pasture land in Australia have been sown with phalaris.And I expect in America too. It's just grass. Good old fashioned grass, good for raising sheep and cattle. Legal. And all over the place. Buy a big bag of seed from a supplier and grow yourself a few acres.
You'll need to do a little research. But not much. For extraction, use a wheat grass juicer. It's a simple hand-operated machine which squeezes juice out of grass. Chemistry is not actually necessary.Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) is a widely used MAO inhibiting herb. The seeds are used. About 5 grams of seed boiled in water.
There you go. All simple and legal and straight from nature. As to exactly how to use these plant extracts - do the research !
As far as I know, these sources are and will remain legal. As Alexander Shulgin said "DMT is everywhere". Trying to make it illegal is pointless because it is in so many plant species.