Allah - the true God?

[DawudTalut]

........
3. Omniscience – knowledge of everything; complete or infinite knowledge including what happened in the past and what will happen in the future.
Which of the 99 names of Allah satisfy the attributes? Is there any that satisfy number 3?

Peace be on you.

[13:10] He is the Knower of the unseen and the seen, the Incomparably Great, the Most High.

علم الغيب و الشهادة

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[6:19] And He is Supreme over His servants; and He is the Wise, the All-Aware.
الخبير

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[10:66] And let not their words grieve thee. Surely, all power belongs to Allah. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
العليم
Ref: alislam/org/quran
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As Allah is not finite, His names (attributes) cannot be finite. Most commonly 99 names may be a certain group of His holy names.

Edited

 

[b.finton]

As Allah is not finite, His names cannot be finite. Most commonly 99 names may be a certain group of His holy names.

I agree.

If I choose to identify another by a name, the choices facing me are infinite and purely arbitrary. If another gives instruction, that's something else.

The difference in our understandings is semantic. I think what you mean by "names" I mean by "attributes."

The attributes of Allah are infinite, even as the attributes of an atom are infinite: from before to beyond, there is but One.

b.

 

[DawudTalut]

...... I think what you mean by "names" I mean by "attributes."

b.

Peace be on you.
Right.
By 'name' I mean attributes.
In Holy Quran says:

[20:9] Allah — there is no God but He. His are the most beautiful names.

الاسماء الحسنى = The most beautiful names i.e. The noble attributes.

 

[David1967]

To Muslims, Allah is the true God. Is he really the true God? Give me a plain, simple, and logical answer without referring to any holy scripture how a god can be considered the true God.

Without going to any scripture for reference, I would have to say that if God created everything then everything therefore came after Him, that would make Him the true God.

 

[peacecrusader888]

Muslims believe that Allah is omniscient – all-knowing. From the Qur’an 19:22-25, here is what is stated in The Glorious Koran by Marmaduke Pickthall:

22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place.

23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!

24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,

25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee , thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.


The palm-tree’s fruit become ripe in summer. Summer is different from the traditional Christian belief that Jesus was born on 12-25, a winter day. This is a past event. Therefore, Allah knows it since he is all-knowing. Prove that Jesus was born in summer.

 

[David1967]

Muslims believe that Allah is omniscient – all-knowing. From the Qur’an 19:22-25, here is what is stated in The Glorious Koran by Marmaduke Pickthall:

22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place.

23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!

24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,

25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee , thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.


The palm-tree’s fruit become ripe in summer. Summer is different from the traditional Christian belief that Jesus was born on 12-25, a winter day. This is a past event. Therefore, Allah knows it since he is all-knowing. Prove that Jesus was born in summer.

Hello friend. I don't know when Jesus was born, you may well be correct that He was born in Summer. Dec, 25 is just the day that most Christian churches set aside to celebrate the birth of Jesus. However (unfortunately) in modern times it has become a commercial holiday more than a celebration of Jesus.

 

[mojtaba]

To Muslims, Allah is the true God. Is he really the true God? Give me a plain, simple, and logical answer without referring to any holy scripture how a god can be considered the true God.

Usool al-Kaafi, H 220, Ch. 2, h 6.
It is narrated from Imam abu Abdallah (a.s.)[ the Sixth shia Imam ], who said this to an atheist when asked him: "What is He(God)?"

"He is a thing but different from all other things. My saying refers to the proving of a [true] goal [of all other things].
Indeed, He is a thing in the sense of the truth of the being a thing, except that He does not have a body and form. He isn't seen or touched and He does not comprehend with the five senses. Imaginations can not comprehend Him and the timeless (Dahr) times does not reduce Him and the times do not change Him."
The man asking questions then said, "Do you say that He hears and sees?" The Imam said, "He does hear and see: He hears without a hearing organ and sees without a means. He hears by Himself and He sees by Himself. My saying "He hears without a hearing organ and sees without a means; He hears by Himself and He sees by Himself" does not mean that He is a thing and His-self is another thing but that I only meant to express my self thereby as I was questioned and explained to you as you had asked a question. Indeed, He hears with the whole of His-self but not in the sense that His whole self has parts but that I intended to explain it to you and to express my self. All I meant thereby is that He does hear, see and He is all-knowing and is the expert in knowing without any multiplicity in His-self or meaning.
The man asking questions then said, "What then is He?" The Imam said, "He is the Lord. He is the One Who is worshipped and He is Allah. When I say Allah, it does not mean establishing the proof for these letters (of alphabet) like Alif, Lam, Ha’(Allah), al-Ra’ or al-Ba’(Rab, i.e. Lord) but twist to a true goal, and a thing that is the Creator of all things, and the Designer of all things, and the manifestation of these letters. And that true goal is named Allah, al-Rahman (the Beneficent), al-Rahim (the Merciful), al-‘Aziz (the Majestic) etc., of the other such names and He is the One Who is worshipped, the Majestic, the Glorious One."
The man then asked, "Does the question how apply to Him?" The Imam said, "No, this question does not apply to Him because it is the aspect of qualities and limitations. However, it is necessary to avoid abandoning and analogizing Him because negating Him is denying His existence and refusing to accept Him as the Lord and abandoning Him altogether.
Whoever would analogize Him with other things from His creatures he has proved the qualities of the creature in Him, the creatures that do not deserve being called the Lord. It, however, is necessary to believe that the question how applies to Him only in a way that would not apply to things other than Him and things other than Him would not deserve and share Him in it. The how question can not apply to Him if it would limit Him or make Him the subject of knowing for others."

 

[mojtaba]

NahjulBalaghah, Sermon 1
Imam Ali[ the first Shia Imam]:
He is a Being, but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

Osool al-Kaafi, H 223, Ch. 3, h 2
"A certain person asked Imam Ali (a.s.) saying, ‘By what means do you acknowledge the existence of your Lord?’" The Imam (a.s.) replied, "I acknowledge His existence by what He has made me to acknowledge His Own-Self." He was asked, "How that has happened?" The Imam (a.s.) then replied, "He is not similar to any form and is not felt and comprehended through any of the senses and can not be analogized with the people. He is near in that He is far and He is far in that He is near. He is above every thing but one can not say that certain things are above Him. He is before every thing but one can not say that something is before Him. He is inside all things but not the way things are inside other things. He is outside every thing but not the way things are outside other things. Glory belongs to the One Who is as such and nothing else other than Him is as such and for every thing there is a beginner."

Osul al-Kafi, H 285, Ch. 12, h 2
Imam Baghir(a.s.)[the 5th Shia Imam]: ‘Allah, to Whom belong Might and Majesty, existed when nothing else existed. He eternally knows whatever comes into being. His knowledge of things before their coming into existence and afterwards is exactly the same.’

Osul al-Kafi, H 232, Ch. 6, h 3
Imam Baghir:
"A man came to Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) saying, ‘Tell me about your Lord. When did He come into existence?’" The Imam (a.s.) replied, "Woe upon you! Such question is asked only about a thing that did not exist. My Lord, all Glory belongs to Him is and will be eternally. He lives and no How question applies to Him. He did not have any coming into existence and nor there was any being for His coming into being. This does not apply to Him because He is not subject to the effects of space. He was not in any thing or on any thing nor did He invent any space for His own space. He did not become stronger after making all things nor was weak before giving being to the beings. He was not lonely before His inventing all things. He is not similar to any thing that could be called a thing. He was also not without Kingdom before the creation and nor will He be without it after all things. He lives eternally without life and the powerful king before His invention of the things and He is an all powerful king after the creation of all things.

 

[David1967]

NahjulBalaghah, Sermon 1
Imam Ali[ the first Shia Imam]:
He is a Being, but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

Osool al-Kaafi, H 223, Ch. 3, h 2
"A certain person asked Imam Ali (a.s.) saying, ‘By what means do you acknowledge the existence of your Lord?’" The Imam (a.s.) replied, "I acknowledge His existence by what He has made me to acknowledge His Own-Self." He was asked, "How that has happened?" The Imam (a.s.) then replied, "He is not similar to any form and is not felt and comprehended through any of the senses and can not be analogized with the people. He is near in that He is far and He is far in that He is near. He is above every thing but one can not say that certain things are above Him. He is before every thing but one can not say that something is before Him. He is inside all things but not the way things are inside other things. He is outside every thing but not the way things are outside other things. Glory belongs to the One Who is as such and nothing else other than Him is as such and for every thing there is a beginner."

Osul al-Kafi, H 285, Ch. 12, h 2
Imam Baghir(a.s.)[the 5th Shia Imam]: ‘Allah, to Whom belong Might and Majesty, existed when nothing else existed. He eternally knows whatever comes into being. His knowledge of things before their coming into existence and afterwards is exactly the same.’

Osul al-Kafi, H 232, Ch. 6, h 3
Imam Baghir:
"A man came to Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) saying, ‘Tell me about your Lord. When did He come into existence?’" The Imam (a.s.) replied, "Woe upon you! Such question is asked only about a thing that did not exist. My Lord, all Glory belongs to Him is and will be eternally. He lives and no How question applies to Him. He did not have any coming into existence and nor there was any being for His coming into being. This does not apply to Him because He is not subject to the effects of space. He was not in any thing or on any thing nor did He invent any space for His own space. He did not become stronger after making all things nor was weak before giving being to the beings. He was not lonely before His inventing all things. He is not similar to any thing that could be called a thing. He was also not without Kingdom before the creation and nor will He be without it after all things. He lives eternally without life and the powerful king before His invention of the things and He is an all powerful king after the creation of all things.

That's good stuff mojtaba. Excellent!

 

[peacecrusader888]

@David1967

I did not say that Jesus was born in summer. You said so. The Holy Bible does not explicitly state when He was born but it can affirm the date. I guess the Qur’an cannot. If the Qur’an can, let the followers of Allah prove that Jesus was born when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe.

 

[mojtaba]

@David1967

I did not say that Jesus was born in summer. You said so. The Holy Bible does not explicitly state when He was born but it can affirm the date. I guess the Qur’an cannot. If the Qur’an can, let the followers of Allah prove that Jesus was born when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe.

Holy Qur'an does not say that Prophet Jesus was born in summer, when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe..

Allamah Tabataba'i( a great Shia interpreter of holy Quran ) has written in his book, Tafsir al-Mizan:

[19:23]And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree.
Using of "trunk of palm-tree" instead of "palm-tree" in this verse, proves that it was a dead tree.

[19:24]And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee , thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.
This verse also proves that the tree was dead. Because Prophet Jusus says to His Mother:' Shake the dead tree, freshly picked dates will drop upon you.'

Indeed, these verses are talking about the miracles of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon Him):

24.Thereupon he[ i.e., Jesus ] called her from below her[saying,] ‘Do not grieve! Your Lord has made a spring to flow at your feet
25.Shake the trunk of the palm tree, freshly picked dates will drop upon you.
...
28.O sister of Aaron[’s lineage]! Your father was not an evil man, nor was your mother unchaste.’
29.Thereat she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we speak to one who is yet a baby in the cradle?’
30.He[ i.e., Jesus ] said, ‘Indeed I am a servant of Allah! He has given me the Book and made me a prophet.
31.He has made me blessed, wherever I may be...

 

[mojtaba]

As I understand it, Allah is a word understood by ancient peoples to mean "the highest." It's a title designed to avoid semantics with regard to the Most Holy.

"Allah" (the divine name) was originally al-Ilah; the "i"; in the middle was omitted because of frequent use. al-Ilah is derived from alaha (he worshipped) or from aliha or waliha (he was bewildered). It is on paradigm of al-fi'al in meaning of al-maf'ul (object-noun). For example, al-Kitab means al-Maktub (the written); likewise al-Ilah means al-Ma'luh that is, the One who is worshipped, or the One about whom minds are bewildered.

Tafsir al-Mizan, by Allamah Tabataba'i.

 

[David1967]

@David1967

I did not say that Jesus was born in summer. You said so. The Holy Bible does not explicitly state when He was born but it can affirm the date. I guess the Qur’an cannot. If the Qur’an can, let the followers of Allah prove that Jesus was born when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe.

Sorry. I guess I misund

@David1967

I did not say that Jesus was born in summer. You said so. The Holy Bible does not explicitly state when He was born but it can affirm the date. I guess the Qur’an cannot. If the Qur’an can, let the followers of Allah prove that Jesus was born when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood. I was quoting this line from your post "The palm-tree’s fruit become ripe in summer. Summer is different from the traditional Christian belief that Jesus was born on 12-25, a winter day. This is a past event. Therefore, Allah knows it since he is all-knowing. Prove that Jesus was born in summer." I guess you were also quoting another. Sorry

 

[peacecrusader888]

Holy Qur'an does not say that Prophet Jesus was born in summer, when the fruit of the palm-tree is ripe..

Allamah Tabataba'i( a great Shia interpreter of holy Quran ) has written in his book, Tafsir al-Mizan:

[19:23]And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree.
Using of "trunk of palm-tree" instead of "palm-tree" in this verse, proves that it was a dead tree.

[19:24]And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee , thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.
This verse also proves that the tree was dead. Because Prophet Jusus says to His Mother:' Shake the dead tree, freshly picked dates will drop upon you.'

Indeed, these verses are talking about the miracles of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon Him):

24.Thereupon he[ i.e., Jesus ] called her from below her[saying,] ‘Do not grieve! Your Lord has made a spring to flow at your feet
25.Shake the trunk of the palm tree, freshly picked dates will drop upon you.
...
28.O sister of Aaron[’s lineage]! Your father was not an evil man, nor was your mother unchaste.’
29.Thereat she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we speak to one who is yet a baby in the cradle?’
30.He[ i.e., Jesus ] said, ‘Indeed I am a servant of Allah! He has given me the Book and made me a prophet.
31.He has made me blessed, wherever I may be...

@mojtaba #31

Does 19:24 say that the tree is dead? Does a dead palm-tree continue to fruit?


Why from “below”?


When was Jesus born, according to Allamah Tabataba’i and to you?


Did Jesus say that He is a servant of Allah? In Revelation 22:16, the Lord God said, “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.” Remember that in Revelation, the Lord God was the one talking and John was writing down what he was seeing and hearing.

 

[mojtaba]

@mojtaba #31

Does 19:24 say that the tree is dead? Does a dead palm-tree continue to fruit?

Friend, I said you that the verses are talking about the miracles of Jesus. Yes, a dead palm-tree continues to fruit, if Jesus will the occurrence of that procedure.(Note that we believe that Jesus performed the miracles by God's leave)

Why from “below”?

Because Jesus(Peace be upon Him) was born and when a baby is born, he will be at the below of his mother. Right?

When was Jesus born, according to Allamah Tabataba’i and to you?

I do not know. If you as Christians believe that He was born in a certain time, we do not reject it.
However, we can not prove by Holy Qura'n that He was born in summer.

Did Jesus say that He is a servant of Allah? In Revelation 22:16, the Lord God said, “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.” Remember that in Revelation, the Lord God was the one talking and John was writing down what he was seeing and hearing.

Friend, I am Muslim and according to Qur'an and true Hadiths( traditions ) of Prophet Muhammad and His 12 Successors( which are indeed the traditions of Prophet Muhammad ), Jesus was a prophet and one of the best servants of God.
We believe that Prophet Jesus never said that He is not a servant of God. We believe that Injil( Bible) has been distorted. Yes, yet there are some verses on it that are the absolute light, but the others are the distortions of some evil people.

We also believe that Jesus was infallible, infallible from the sins and also wrongs, by Allah's leave.

Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5:
74.Will they not repent to Allah and plead to Him for forgiveness? Yet Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful.
75.The Messiah, son of Mary, is but an apostle. Certainly, [other] apostles have passed before him, and his mother was a truthful one. Both of them would eat food. Look how We clarify the signs for them, and yet, look, how they go astray!
76.Say, ‘Do you worship, besides Allah, what has no power to bring you any benefit or harm, while Allah—He is the All-hearing, the All-knowing?!’
77.Say, ‘O People of the Book! Do not unduly exceed the bounds in your religion and do not follow the fancies of a people who went astray in the past, and led many astray, and [themselves+ strayed from the right path.’

Holy Qur'an, Chapter 4:
171.O People of the Book! Do not exceed the bounds in your religion, and do not attribute anything to Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only an apostle of Allah, and His Word that He cast toward Mary and a spirit from Him. So have faith in Allah and His apostles, and do not say, ‘[God is] a trinity.’ Relinquish [such a creed]! That is better for you. Allah is but the One God. He is far too immaculate to have any son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth, and Allah suffices as trustee.
172.The Messiah would never disdain being a servant of Allah, nor would the angels brought near [to Him]. And whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant, He will gather them all toward Him.


There were some ones who said such things about Shia 12 infallible Imams. But the ff tradition is the saying of one of the 12 Imams about such claims:
Sadir has said that he asked abu ‘Abdallah[ Imam Sadiq, the sixth Shia Imam ] (a.s.) the following.
"A certain group of people believe that you(i.e. Imams) are gods. They read to us from the Qur'an about it. And it is He Who in heaven is God and in earth is God(i.e. the God in the earth are Imams!)."(43:84). The Imam (a.s.) said, "O Sadir, my hearing, my sight, my skin, my flesh, my blood and my hair are (all) disdain such people, and Allah also disdains them. They do not follow my religion and the religion of my forefathers. I swear by Allah, Allah will not place me with them on the Day of Resurrection.
(Osul al-Kafi, H 707, Ch. 53, h 6)

 

[peacecrusader888]

Friend, I said you that the verses are talking about the miracles of Jesus. Yes, a dead palm-tree continues to fruit, if Jesus will the occurrence of that procedure.(Note that we believe that Jesus performed the miracles by God's leave)

@mojtaba
If Jesus can perform miracles like “a dead palm-tree continues to fruit” you mentioned, isn’t it better to purely believe in Jesus and become a Christian? FYI, the spirit of Ama who most, if not all, of His listeners believe to be Jesus Christ, said that Jesus was born on 05-23, a spring day. And I have proven Him to be correct in His revelation. That is why as 2 Corinthians 4:13 states, “I believed, and therefore have I spoken”.

 

[peacecrusader888]

Jesus was born. If Allah is “all-knowing”, he can tell us if 05-23 is true or not. But since he is not that “all-knowing” as the Qur’an states, would you trust the Qur’an or Allah? The birth of Jesus is a past event. It happened. And yet Allah does not know it. The Holy Bible affirms that this is the correct date when He was born. The date was revealed by the spirit of Ama, and believe it or not, I have proved that this is correct. If Allah cannot tell what happened in the past, how much more of what will happen in the future?

 

[peacecrusader888]

We are discussing here if Allah is the true God. Is Allah the true God?

In 1985, the spirit of Ama said that the number of tempters and deceivers on earth will become many more and dense who will lead astray, misteach, deceive and blind many, many people. Many will spread the rumor that this is the beginning of the end. This will spread and many will claim that he is god, or God is in him, or he is inspired by God, or he is the messenger of God, and many will believe that will truly lead them astray. This is a warning or advice: beware of false prophets because we will not be saved by borrowed faith.

Remember, beware of false prophets who will give us borrowed faith, meaning, faith that did not come from within us but commanded to us, or told to or directed, imposed, dictated or compelled upon us by our fellowmen. We will not be saved this way. We must focus our faith in God, the only true God, who gave us our life, and not through faith in Him as commanded by our fellowmen, but believe and have faith in Him in our heart because of His being God and we are His creation.

 

[peacecrusader888]

Here is what the spirit of Ama said:
“There is no correct religion. Did you know, My children, which is correct? Acknowledge Jesus Christ and believe that He is true God and true man.”

“Any religion can save you because you will pick out what is good and discard what is evil. The one that will save you will be your own work and belief in the true God.”

 

[mojtaba]

Divine Unity : Ontological, not a Numerical Concept