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All Straw Dogs Go to Heaven-and-Earth

S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
"Heaven-and-Earth is not sentimental;
It treats all things as straw-dogs.
The Sage is not sentimental;
He treats all his people as straw-dogs.
Between Heaven and Earth,
There seems to be a Bellows:
It is empty, and yet it is inexhaustible;
The more it works, the more comes out of it.
No amount of words can fathom it:
Better look for it within you."

-Tao Teh Ching Chapter 5
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Straw Dog said:
"Heaven-and-Earth is not sentimental;
It treats all things as straw-dogs.
The Sage is not sentimental;
He treats all his people as straw-dogs.
Between Heaven and Earth,
There seems to be a Bellows:
It is empty, and yet it is inexhaustible;
The more it works, the more comes out of it.
No amount of words can fathom it:
Better look for it within you."

-Tao Teh Ching Chapter 5
Click to expand...

What translation are you using?
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
It seems to be the right time to return to my roots and review. It's probably best to start at the beginning. Here's another translation of chapter 5:

Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs;* the sage is ruthless, and treats the people as straw dogs.
Is not the space between heaven and earth like a bellows?
It is empty without being exhausted:
The more it works the more comes out.
Much speech leads inevitably to silence.
Better to hold fast to the void.




*In the T'ien yun chapter in the Chuang tzu it is said that straw dogs were treated with the greatest deference before they were used as an offering, only to be discarded and trampled upon as soon as they had served their purpose.
 
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S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I wonder what 'ruthless' means in this context. Does anyone have a different translation from the ones used? Any interpretations?

I suspect that words like 'impartial' or 'dispassionate' may be more fitting, but I'm not sure. Could a sage be ruthless?
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Heaven and Earth are impartial
They regard myriad things as straw dogs
The sages are impartial
They regard people as straw dogs

The space between Heaven and Earth
Is it not like a bellows?
Empty, and yet never exhausted
It moves, and produces more

Too many words hasten failure
Cannot compare to keeping to the void

Accurate Translation of the Tao Te Ching
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Crossfire,

Thanks for sharing. That feels more accurate even before checking the link. That second translation I used was by D.C. Lau and published by Penguin Classics.
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Straw Dog said:
"Heaven-and-Earth is not sentimental;
It treats all things as straw-dogs.
The Sage is not sentimental;
He treats all his people as straw-dogs.
Between Heaven and Earth,
There seems to be a Bellows:
It is empty, and yet it is inexhaustible;
The more it works, the more comes out of it.
No amount of words can fathom it:
Better look for it within you."

-Tao Teh Ching Chapter 5
Click to expand...

I am very sentimental ;)
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Straw Dog said:
Personally, I'd rather not be affected acutely by uncontrolled emotion. It interferes with impartial observation.
Click to expand...

Sometimes 'unexpected' tears soften the soil of our ego hardened rationality,
and make the it ready for sowing and growing a richer harvest.

A farmer can't control the elements,
but he can be well versed in how to grow the harvest in the sun and rain as it comes.

And sometimes it's isn't what the farmer thinks the crops need to grow, that they really need to flourish.
And he learns something new about how the harvest grows.


That is, Is impartial observation clouded with impartiality?
 
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S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
SageTree said:
Sometimes 'unexpected' tears soften the soil of our ego hardened rationality,
and make the it ready for sowing and growing a richer harvest.

A farmer can't control the elements,
but he can be well versed in how to grow the harvest in the sun and rain as it comes.

And sometimes it's isn't what the farmer thinks the crops need to grow, that they really need to flourish.
And he learns something new about how the harvest grows.


That is, Is impartial observation clouded with impartiality?
Click to expand...

Of course, let not the intellect dominate the feelings nor the feelings dominate the intellect. They can work together harmoniously with practice. We can observe our emotions, and learn from them, without investing our essential nature. It requires suspending judgment and taking a step back. Sentimentality implies that emotions are dominating one's thoughts and actions.
 
SageTree

SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
Well.... okay... :eek:

Today's Sesame Street episode is brought to you by the letter, Doah!

To say 'extreme' or 'based mainly' on emotion....
I can see how that isn't useful in regular practice, which goes without saying.

Maybe it has it's place though, with some rationality sprinkled through out.

For us to SEE that we are over whelmed with an emotion...
But not to necessarily act upon or through it, is good.

It then becomes a window for us to see our self.
Rather than being caught up in it, as our self.


sen·ti·ment n.

1. A thought, view, or attitude, especially one based mainly on emotion instead of reason: An anti-American sentiment swept through the country. See Synonyms at feeling, opinion.
2.
a. Emotion; feeling: Different forms of music convey different kinds of sentiment.
b. Tender or romantic feeling.
c. Maudlin emotion; sentimentality.
3. The emotional import of a passage as distinct from its form of expression.
4. The expression of delicate and sensitive feeling, especially in art and literature.​


sen·ti·men·tal·i·ty n. pl.

1. The quality or condition of being excessively or affectedly sentimental.
2. A sentimental idea or an expression of it.​

sen·ti·men·tal adj.

1.
a. Characterized or swayed by sentiment.
b. Affectedly or extravagantly emotional.
2. Resulting from or colored by emotion rather than reason or realism.
3. Appealing to the sentiments, especially to romantic feelings​

It's possible I just re-said what you shared....
But it's good for Sages to know how to use a dictionary too. :p
Move your mind and your *** will follow. :D
 
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