afterlife in mahayana?

[nathanielfirst]

hello, i am wondering about some mahayana buddhist traditions, and their concept of the afterlife... my understanding of Tendai buddhism, is that the lotus sutra is more suggestive of a real afterlife than say theraveda buddhism... that the pali canon in theraveda leaves open the question, will I exist as a sentient consciousness in any way after nirvana, discouraging talk of the thing, alternatly suggesting yes and no... I was wondering, in zen, as well as:
huayan, hwaeom, kegon (tathagatagarba doctrine) and cittamatra, wei-shi, beopsang, hosso buddhism (yogacara doctrine),
is there this suggestion, hint that there is real existance after FINAL nirvana (NOT as a boddhisatva) as a ...being? like in the Tendai?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Teachings and acknowledgements regarding any kind of afterlife is not addressed or taught in Mahayana Zen traditions.

That is not to say that there are not any practitioners who may have a perspective involving some kind of afterlife. I myself have such a perspective as to this, but in practice itself there is actually no such concept established or taught in a formal sense.

 

[Engyo]

hello, i am wondering about some mahayana buddhist traditions, and their concept of the afterlife... my understanding of Tendai buddhism, is that the lotus sutra is more suggestive of a real afterlife than say theraveda buddhism... that the pali canon in theraveda leaves open the question, will I exist as a sentient consciousness in any way after nirvana, discouraging talk of the thing, alternatly suggesting yes and no... I was wondering, in zen, as well as:
huayan, hwaeom, kegon (tathagatagarba doctrine) and cittamatra, wei-shi, beopsang, hosso buddhism (yogacara doctrine),
is there this suggestion, hint that there is real existance after FINAL nirvana (NOT as a boddhisatva) as a ...being? like in the Tendai?

Hi, Nathaniel -

I'm very curious where you find a notion of an "after" life (that is different from another lifetime in one or other of the various realms) in Tendai thought or in the Lotus Sutra? As a Nichiren Buddhist, our doctrine is derivative of Tendai thought, and we study the Lotus Sutra extensively. I have been doing this for very close to 30 years now, and I don't ever recall a concept such as you describe. Can you please elaborate on what this existance after nirvana is and where in the Lotus Sutra or in Tendai thought it is to be found?

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think the matter is quite open in Theravada thought either. It is far more accurate to say that it is not seen as a real question.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Could the afterlife and prelife be indistinguishable in the mahayana buddhist traditions?

 

[Engyo]

Could the afterlife and prelife be indistinguishable in the mahayana buddhist traditions?

Hi, SGB -

I'm not sure there are such things as "prelife" and"afterlife" in Mahayana thought. I understand it is more like there is "life in potential" and "life in actuality" and "we" cycle between the two; and then nirvana or cessation is when that cycle ends. When the cycle ends, according to the theory, I don't believe that there is anything at all left that can be identified as having any individuality.

Now if by "prelife" and "afterlife" you are meaning the "life in potential" stages immediately before and after this particular lifetime (this "life in actuality" stage), then I would say you are correct.

 

[nathanielfirst]

um i had heard that in the Lotus Sutra the idea was suggested when a boddhisatva that had acheived final nirvana appears, miraculously, to talk to and authenticate the words of a present boddhisatva, kind of like a 'hint' that there is survival after final nirvana and that even then one still exists in some form, somewhere. so, not explicitly stated?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why would such authentication suggest some sort of afterlife anyway? I don't think I am understanding what you mean.

Are you under the belief that final nirvana involves dying? Or perhaps that it specifically involves some sort of spiritual identity "beyond"?

 

[Engyo]

um i had heard that in the Lotus Sutra the idea was suggested when a boddhisatva that had acheived final nirvana appears, miraculously, to talk to and authenticate the words of a present boddhisatva, kind of like a 'hint' that there is survival after final nirvana and that even then one still exists in some form, somewhere. so, not explicitly stated?

Hi again, Nathaniel -

My guess is that you are referring to Taho (Jpn) or Prabhutaratna (Skt) or Many Treasures Buddha. He appears in Chapter 11 of the Lotus Sutra to testify to the truth of the Dharma that Shakyamuni Buddha is teaching.

In Nichiren doctrine (and I believe this is true of Tendai as well) all of the Buddhas who appear during the course of the Sutra, save only Shakyamuni himself, are considered to be emanations of the Eternal Buddha of Chapter 16. The Eternal Buddha is considered to be the unborn, the uncreated, the deathless; the Buddha-field, or Buddha-nature; it is one way to present the concept, although to my mind it is unnecessarily complicating to give this concept the same title that is applied to an individual being, which this concept most decidedly is NOT.

All of these "emanation Buddhas" can be considered metaphorical ways in which this Buddha-field is naturally expressed to verify the truth of the teaching of a physical Buddha. One of the very interesting things about the Lotus Sutra for me is that so much of the imagery and concepts can be read as complete metaphor, or as actual events, and both readings end up with very similar conclusions. When I think about how one would go about conveying such concepts to a wide range of people with a wide range of potential education and understanding, I think this is probably one of the most effective ways this could have been done, given the time when the Lotus Sutra was taught and developed.

So, rather than a being who somehow "lives on" in some fashion after entering the Nirvana without remainder, Many Treasures Buddha is seen as an emanation of the Buddha-field acknowledging and approving of the Dharma being taught by Shakyamuni. One is free to understand this in as metaphorical or non-metaphorical as way as one wishes, at least according to what I know of Tendai and Nichiren doctrines.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Could the afterlife and prelife be indistinguishable in the mahayana buddhist traditions?

None of this is differentiated.