Advanced Questions For Unitarian Universalism/Baha'i Faith/Terasem

[Mackerni]

Unitarian Universalism

(1) I heard somewhere that Unitarian Universalism is a new faith that is trying to find it's own answers. That, in essence, it is trying to form its own faith from this creedless religion. How much truth is there to this, and if so, what have they come up with as a conclusive faith to the religion?

(2) How many members of Unitarian Universalism is there, really? I have very conservative estimates range around 175,000 and very liberal estimates range around 800,000. I know there's plenty of churches for Unitarians but the number of adherents is widely inconsistent with websites.

(3) Does Unitarian Universalism even want to be considered a religion? From my other faith, Terasem, it describes itself as a transreligion, meaning a religion that transcends other religions. You can be a Unitarian Universalist like you can be a Terasem and any other religion at the same time. From what I've read of Unitarian Universalism, it seems to be much more of a philosophy of religion than a religion of itself.

Baha'i Faith

(1) Baha'u'llah had two wives, advocated for two wives in his perennial book Kitab-i-Aqdas yet his son and the Haifa Baha'i Faith advocated for only one wife. I believe it should be one man one woman myself, but how does the religion justify its main prophet having two wives?

(2) Be honest: did Baha'u'llah advocate for not just a one-world government, but for the Baha'i Faith to be one religion in a one-world theocracy? Some Baha'is I've heard from say this about the Baha'i Faith, yet official sources say something completely different, advocating for more of an open democracy.

(3) A documentary that I watched, Around the World in 80 Faiths, featured the Baha'i Faith and said multiple times that you can be a Baha'i and still believe in other religions. From my own experience, that is not true. I tried being a Unitarian Universalist and a Baha'i at the same time and they told me I couldn't join. Even so, I lied to them later on stating I gave up the Unitarian Universalist faith for the Baha'i, and told them that it was a lie, and now they are being much more wishy-washy and are insistent that I attend devotionals now.

Terasem

(1) I've e-mailed, I've made a YouTube video, I've even called Terasem to see if I can join their transhumanist movement and I haven't gotten a call back. Nothing. No reply back. I went to their little island in Second Life. Nobody was there. I don't know know what to do to join this religion. I'm frustrated.

(2) Where can I find information on gatherings so I can talk to someone from the Terasem Faith? I know you can listen into their radio station to see what to do regarding gatherings and rituals but I'm never listening to the radio at the right times.

(3) How does the religion fashion itself as a transreligion when it has strict views on the future, God, and the afterlife? If anything Unitarian Universalism is a transreligion much more so than Terasem.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Unitarian Universalism

(1) I heard somewhere that Unitarian Universalism is a new faith that is trying to find it's own answers. That, in essence, it is trying to form its own faith from this creedless religion. How much truth is there to this, and if so, what have they come up with as a conclusive faith to the religion?

(2) How many members of Unitarian Universalism is there, really? I have very conservative estimates range around 175,000 and very liberal estimates range around 800,000. I know there's plenty of churches for Unitarians but the number of adherents is widely inconsistent with websites.

(3) Does Unitarian Universalism even want to be considered a religion? From my other faith, Terasem, it describes itself as a transreligion, meaning a religion that transcends other religions. You can be a Unitarian Universalist like you can be a Terasem and any other religion at the same time. From what I've read of Unitarian Universalism, it seems to be much more of a philosophy of religion than a religion of itself.

Baha'i Faith

(1) Baha'u'llah had two wives, advocated for two wives in his perennial book Kitab-i-Aqdas yet his son and the Haifa Baha'i Faith advocated for only one wife. I believe it should be one man one woman myself, but how does the religion justify its main prophet having two wives?

(2) Be honest: did Baha'u'llah advocate for not just a one-world government, but for the Baha'i Faith to be one religion in a one-world theocracy? Some Baha'is I've heard from say this about the Baha'i Faith, yet official sources say something completely different, advocating for more of an open democracy.

(3) A documentary that I watched, Around the World in 80 Faiths, featured the Baha'i Faith and said multiple times that you can be a Baha'i and still believe in other religions. From my own experience, that is not true. I tried being a Unitarian Universalist and a Baha'i at the same time and they told me I couldn't join. Even so, I lied to them later on stating I gave up the Unitarian Universalist faith for the Baha'i, and told them that it was a lie, and now they are being much more wishy-washy and are insistent that I attend devotionals now.

Terasem

(1) I've e-mailed, I've made a YouTube video, I've even called Terasem to see if I can join their transhumanist movement and I haven't gotten a call back. Nothing. No reply back. I went to their little island in Second Life. Nobody was there. I don't know know what to do to join this religion. I'm frustrated.

(2) Where can I find information on gatherings so I can talk to someone from the Terasem Faith? I know you can listen into their radio station to see what to do regarding gatherings and rituals but I'm never listening to the radio at the right times.

(3) How does the religion fashion itself as a transreligion when it has strict views on the future, God, and the afterlife? If anything Unitarian Universalism is a transreligion much more so than Terasem.

UU used to be part of the protestant reformation. It broke off and formed its own views protesting against the Church and other organized religions (protestant and catholic).

It's not a organized religion as commonly known; but, JW is an organized religion, and they don't consider themselves as such. So, it's a matter of perspective.

Their tenants main focus is equality and welcoming people of all walks of spirituality to worship under the same roof. It's a religion because people come house of worship, have beliefs and ways of practice, et cetera. It's not organized, though as commonly thought that all religions should be.

Your definition of transreligion sounds much like UU. Is it a philosophy? A practice? An identity?

Also Bahai from what I know of is the needle in a hay stack. They welcome religions; but, they believe in a creator (which UUs vary depending on who you talk to). They believe in the prophets (which UUs seem to gear away from biblical prophets) and they believe in sacred texts (UUs are so varied that the religion itself doesn't have sacred texts to begin with).

I don't see how Bahai mixes. However, from what I experienced within the UU Church and learned about it, it still has some christian vibes but that's not the core of the religion.

 

[George-ananda]

Baha'i Faith

I am former Baha'i (but not an anti-Baha'i).

(1) Baha'u'llah had two wives, advocated for two wives in his perennial book Kitab-i-Aqdas yet his son and the Haifa Baha'i Faith advocated for only one wife. I believe it should be one man one woman myself, but how does the religion justify its main prophet having two wives?

Baha'i sprung from Islamic culture where two wives can be lawful. I think this is a legitimate problem that this is in the law book for this 1,000 year dispensation. It has gotten reversed by interpretations of Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice but why was it there in the first place seems unfortunate in the official revelation

(2) Be honest: did Baha'u'llah advocate for not just a one-world government, but for the Baha'i Faith to be one religion in a one-world theocracy? Some Baha'is I've heard from say this about the Baha'i Faith, yet official sources say something completely different, advocating for more of an open democracy.

Yes, Baha'i belief is for a Baha'i commonwealth with the Baha'i Administrative Order replacing our current governments and religions. Baha'i was not intended to be just one religion among many but THE religion replacing the others for this dispensation.. Many newer Baha'is are not really aware of this.

(3) A documentary that I watched, Around the World in 80 Faiths, featured the Baha'i Faith and said multiple times that you can be a Baha'i and still believe in other religions. From my own experience, that is not true. I tried being a Unitarian Universalist and a Baha'i at the same time and they told me I couldn't join. Even so, I lied to them later on stating I gave up the Unitarian Universalist faith for the Baha'i, and told them that it was a lie, and now they are being much more wishy-washy and are insistent that I attend devotionals now.

Although Baha'i accepts the major religions as legitimate during the course of their dispensation, we are now in the Baha'i era and one may not be a Baha'i and belong to any other religious or political group.


Again I still like Baha'i but you deserve to hear the truth.

 

[Mindmaster]

I can find nothing really on Terasem, but the video you made yourself and a couple of YouTube videos from years back. My guess is they imploded or something -- hard to say with such a small group, and they don't have forums or anything. They don't even have Facebook or Twitter, so I am concluding that they are gone. There is absolutely nothing the press about them and they don't even "create their own press" with blogs or whatever. It sounds like a money scam to me at every point, so there is also that.

 

[Mackerni]

UU used to be part of the protestant reformation. It broke off and formed its own views protesting against the Church and other organized religions (protestant and catholic).

I know this already.

It's not a organized religion as commonly known; but, JW is an organized religion, and they don't consider themselves as such. So, it's a matter of perspective.

I know this already.

Their tenants main focus is equality and welcoming people of all walks of spirituality to worship under the same roof. It's a religion because people come house of worship, have beliefs and ways of practice, et cetera. It's not organized, though as commonly thought that all religions should be.

I know this already.

Your definition of transreligion sounds much like UU. Is it a philosophy? A practice? An identity?

Yet Unitarian Universalism does not even use the word transreligion.

Also Bahai from what I know of is the needle in a hay stack. They welcome religions; but, they believe in a creator (which UUs vary depending on who you talk to). They believe in the prophets (which UUs seem to gear away from biblical prophets) and they believe in sacred texts (UUs are so varied that the religion itself doesn't have sacred texts to begin with).

I know this already.

I don't see how Bahai mixes. However, from what I experienced within the UU Church and learned about it, it still has some christian vibes but that's not the core of the religion.

Ever heard of the Unitarian Baha'i Association? It exists. They are Baha'is who happen to worship in Unitarian congregations. And consider themselves both Baha'i and Unitarian.

I am former Baha'i (but not an anti-Baha'i).

Then you should have some authority on the faith then.

Baha'i sprung from Islamic culture where two wives can be lawful. I think this is a legitimate problem that this is in the law book for this 1,000 year dispensation. It has gotten reversed by interpretations of Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice but why was it there in the first place seems unfortunate in the official revelation

According to Islamic law at the time, you could have four wives. When Baha'u'llah starting writing his prophecy he has two, so he declared two. It was out of convenience he picked two and not three or four.

Yes, Baha'i belief is for a Baha'i commonwealth with the Baha'i Administrative Order replacing our current governments and religions. Baha'i was not intended to be just one religion among many but THE religion replacing the others for this dispensation.. Many newer Baha'is are not really aware of this.

That's unfortunate.They really want world power. My greatest fears of the Baha'i Faith have been realized, then.

Although Baha'i accepts the major religions as legitimate during the course of their dispensation, we are now in the Baha'i era and one may not be a Baha'i and belong to any other religious or political group.

Yet I'm a member of my local Unitarian church and the Libertarian Party. Guess I'm not really a Baha'i then.

Again I still like Baha'i but you deserve to hear the truth.

Thank you.

I can find nothing really on Terasem, but the video you made yourself and a couple of YouTube videos from years back. My guess is they imploded or something -- hard to say with such a small group, and they don't have forums or anything. They don't even have Facebook or Twitter, so I am concluding that they are gone. There is absolutely nothing the press about them and they don't even "create their own press" with blogs or whatever. It sounds like a money scam to me at every point, so there is also that.

According to this they have 32,000 people who have uploaded their mindfile. They actually do have a Facebook but they haven't updated it in years.They have their own blog which is right here but again, hasn't been updated in years. The funny thing is, to join Terasem you don't need to donate any money to their cause. You just have to fill out a questionnaire about why you wanted to join the faith. And I have visited the (albeit empty) Terasem island in Second Life. There is hardly anything on it on YouTube which is really disheartening for me.

Thank you to the people who have responded. All your feedback is welcome, but as I said, these were advanced questions from someone who already knows a lot about each faith. I want to give a big shout out to George for providing me the most in depth answers about the Baha'i Faith. Your feedback is welcomed!

 

[George-ananda]

Thank you for the shout-out but I just want to clarify one point.

That's unfortunate.They really want world power. My greatest fears of the Baha'i Faith have been realized, then.

They certainly do not lust for power as you may be implying. Their official position is that the current religious and political structures are crumbling and overwhelmingly people will turn to the Baha'i Faith and Administration as their refuge. Eventually the Baha'i Faith will naturally replace the existing religions and government.

 

[arthra]

Baha'u'llah had two wives, advocated for two wives in his perennial book Kitab-i-Aqdas yet his son and the Haifa Baha'i Faith advocated for only one wife. I believe it should be one man one woman myself, but how does the religion justify its main prophet having two wives?

Mackerni...

I hadn't seen your thread until now and thought I'd respond to your question...

Baha'u'llah actually had three wives not two as you implied in your post.. The reason? Baha'u'llah was raised in a Shiah Muslim society and His family selected/approved of the arrangements.

There's a fairly complete article on the subject at

http://bahai-library.com/uhj_wives_bahaullah

The Kitab-i-Aqdas was not generally known for several years after it was revealed in Akka. The following also explains :

Polygamy is a very ancient practice among the majority of humanity. The introduction of monogamy has been only gradually accomplished by the Manifestations of God. Jesus, for example, did not prohibit polygamy, but abolished divorce except in the case of fornication; Muhammad limited the number of wives to four, but making plurality of wives contingent on justice, and reintroducing permission for divorce; Bahá'u'lláh, Who was revealing His Teachings in the milieu of a Muslim society, introduced the question of monogamy gradually in accordance with the principles of wisdom and the progressive unfoldment of His purpose. The fact that He left His followers with an infallible Interpreter of His Writings enabled Him to outwardly permit two wives in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but uphold a condition that enabled 'Abdu'l-Bahá to elucidate later that the intention of the law was to enforce monogamy.

http://bahai-library.com/uhj_wives_bahaullah

 

[arthra]

Be honest: did Baha'u'llah advocate for not just a one-world government, but for the Baha'i Faith to be one religion in a one-world theocracy? Some Baha'is I've heard from say this about the Baha'i Faith, yet official sources say something completely different, advocating for more of an open democracy

Back in 1867 when Baha'u'llah was in Akka He wrote Tablets to the then rulers and advocated a world parliament and an international court of arbitration ... this was to be solely based on the rulers and the Baha'i Faith as an institution had nothing to do with it... Had the rulers responded and established a representative world parliament at that time we believe this would have led to the Most Great Peace... since the rulers didn't respond the best we can hope and pray for is a "Lesser Peace." In a sense what we have today with the UN and there is a sort of International Court of Arbitration is still a model for what Baha'u'llah advocated.

 

[arthra]

A documentary that I watched, Around the World in 80 Faiths, featured the Baha'i Faith and said multiple times that you can be a Baha'i and still believe in other religions. From my own experience, that is not true. I tried being a Unitarian Universalist and a Baha'i at the same time and they told me I couldn't join. Even so, I lied to them later on stating I gave up the Unitarian Universalist faith for the Baha'i, and told them that it was a lie, and now they are being much more wishy-washy and are insistent that I attend devotionals now.

I haven't seen the documentary you referred to but from my cursory search of a few moments ago I noted the Wikipedia article:

"The series was presented by Anglican vicar Pete Owen-Jones, who was researching the various faiths from around the world."

So it isn't a Baha'i source as such. Early in the twentieth century the Baha'i Faith was not established in most areas..by that I mean it did not have an administrative order ... there were few "Assemblies" and institutions of the Faith were not established... It was fully possible at that time to be a Baha'i as well as the member of a church.

After the passing of Abdul-Baha His grandson Shoghi Effendi was the acknowledged center of the Faith and his main task was erecting the administrative order based on the Will and Testament of Abdul-Baha as well as the Kitab-i-Aqdas of Baha'u'llah.

There is a Letter by Shoghi Effendi that speaks to this issue rather well:

"As regards the question of Bahá'ís belonging to Churches, synagogues, Freemasonry, etc., the friends must realize that now that the Faith is over 100 years old, and its own institutions arising, so to speak, rapidly aboveground, the distinctions are becoming ever sharper, and the necessity for them to support whole- heatedly their own institutions and cut themselves off entirely from those of the past, is now clearer than ever before. The eyes of the people of the world art beginning to be focussed on us; and, as humanity's plight goes from bad to worsen, we will be watched ever more intently by non-Bahá'ís, to see whether we do uphold our own institutions wholeheartedly; whether we are the people of the new creation or not; whether we live up to our beliefs, principles and laws in deed as well as word. We cannot be too careful. We cannot be too exemplary.

"There is another aspect to this question which the friends should seriously ponder, and that is that, whereas organizations such as Freemasonry may have been in the past entirely free from any political taint, in the state of flux the World is in at present, and the extraordinary way in which things become corrupted and tainted by political thought and influences, there is no guarantee that such an association might not gradually or suddenly become a political instrument. The less Bahá'ís have to do, therefore, with such things, the better."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the British Isles, August 5, 1955)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 421)