Adoption, Abortion, and Self

[Rival]

I don't think 'thing bad' is a constructive argument either. But I also think calling the Catholic Church (and other institutions with long histories of abuse coverups like Watchtower org) out on the hypocrisy of a superficially pro-life, pro-humanitarian position while having anemic reformation to prevent systemic abuse is the same thing as just saying 'thing bad.'

Or putting early orphanages (which were more like child labor camps) into context to dispell this charitable historical view.

No, but I don't think trying to downplay all the good the RCC has done is helpful either. At this point, I think most folks are aware of their history of abuse and it has been looked at and is still being looked at. But as far as I am concerned these are two completely separate issues. The RCC is made up of millions of people. Most of those millions are likely just as horrified by these scandals as we are, so to call those folks hypocrites for extolling the values of the RCC seems unfair to me.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No, but I don't think trying to downplay all the good the RCC has done is helpful either. At this point, I think most folks are aware of their history of abuse and it has been looked at and is still being looked at. But as far as I am concerned these are two completely separate issues. The RCC is made up of millions of people. Most of those millions are likely just as horrified by these scandals as we are, so to call those folks hypocrites for extolling the values of the RCC seems unfair to me.

If those horrified people don't make any real noise other than just 'talking about it' then it sort of explains why the problem gets perpetuated without any substantial change. Demanding real accountability from an organization you put your loyalty behind is the only fair thing to me.

If my place of work helped a hundred people a week but also perpetuated abuse against one, with multiple levels of the company knowing about it and not coming forward...the entire place would either be shut down or there would be massive purges in the highest levels of the organization down to the lowest. And independent investigation comittees which would demand total transparency.

Religious institutions should not not held to different standards on that account imo.

 

[Kenny]

To all of those who find abortion deplorable, there are tons of children needing parents. Why are you worried about an unborn\unliving thing, when there are children needing a stable home and other basic needs?


there is real violence and indifference being targeted towards children. Where is your religion on this matter?


51 Useful Aging Out of Foster Care Statistics | Social Race Media -.

Some sourcesestimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

American Adoptions - How Many Couples are Waiting to Adopt a Baby?

I don't think killing babies is the answer but rather streamlining adoption and making the cost more affordable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Some sourcesestimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

There's an artificial scarcity because most parents are only willing to adopt an infant. There's way more children than prospective parents but if they don't get adopted by age 1 the likelihood they will be goes way down. Though Christian adoption agencies love to discriminate against LGBT parents so that also deflates the pool.

 

[Fool]

Are you advocating for abortion because there are already too many children in the world who need homes?

i'm advocating for the right to one's body without interference from other's. trying to control another's life allows the controlling to become reckless with their own

Why not advocate for better birth control or celibacy?

those don't work after the fact of conception. the horse is out of the barn. rape victims don't have that luxury of choice. women's who's health at risk sometimes don't want that choice.

Why not advocate for having the baby and giving it to a couple who cannot have their own children?

obviously you didn't read the statistics on adoption and viable beings. not everyone wants to be someone's surrogate. but there are those who take that track.

I am concerned about an unborn living thing because it has a soul and a right to life.

A Scientific View of When Life Begins

i am too. is it going to be born into a loving and supportive situation. was this planned. or was it a moment of an unforeseen accident. there are children being raped, sexually abused, and you want them to risk their lives because you're concerned.

that is a bit to one sided. self doesn't care about the risk to the mother, nor really concerned about the unwanted child. they just want a warm fuzzy. life doesn't work that way when you're dealing with folks that want the perfect but don't want to invest in it.

 

[Fool]

Some sourcesestimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

American Adoptions - How Many Couples are Waiting to Adopt a Baby?

I don't think killing babies is the answer but rather streamlining adoption and making the cost more affordable.

its not someone else place to have babies for someone else just because they want them fresh from the womb. but if that is the mothers, surrogates, choice. GREAT

 

[Kenny]

There's an artificial scarcity because most parents are only willing to adopt an infant. There's way more children than prospective parents but if they don't get adopted by age 1 the likelihood they will be goes way down. Though Christian adoption agencies love to discriminate against LGBT parents so that also deflates the pool.

Though it is true that younger is still preferred, it doesn't change the fact that most can't because of cost.

As far as Christian agencies, there are enough secular agencies that keeps the pool just as large... but you still have the cost and the red-tape that makes it impossible many times:

Red Tape and Expense Slow Adoptions (Published 1988)

 

[Trailblazer]

There's an artificial scarcity because most parents are only willing to adopt an infant.

It is a moot point that they are waiting to adopt an infant. The fact is that they want an infant and there would be no scarcity of infants to adopt if there were not so many babies being aborted, so the excuse "I don't want a baby right now" does not fly; in fact it does not even get to the boarding area.

Why not just be honest and say "I don't want to have the baby because it is a bit inconvenient for me right now."

 

[Trailblazer]

its not someone else place to have babies for someone else just because they want them fresh from the womb. but if that is the mothers, surrogates, choice. GREAT

And as usual, the baby has nothing to say about it.

 

[Fool]

And as usual, the baby has nothing to say about it.

babies have nothing to say because they don't have the ability to speak; when there is no breath of life in their bodies. litteraly they can't make a sounds because of no air in the lungs to exhale and form word sounds.


common sense always said, don't count your chicks until the eggs hatch. even in the bible, there was never a census of the people; which included the unborn.


"your" god made some people infertile for a reason and it wasn't so those who don't want to have a baby are responsible for them. isn't it time to start dealing with what is vs what might be


Demographics

 

[Trailblazer]

i'm advocating for the right to one's body without interference from other's. trying to control another's life allows the controlling to become reckless with their own

I am not advocating telling anyone what to do with their body, it should be a choice.

those don't work after the fact of conception. the horse is out of the barn. rape victims don't have that luxury of choice. women's who's health at risk sometimes don't want that choice.

Imo, they should have thought of that before they had sex, unless it was rape or incest, which only accounts for 1% of abortions, and given reliable birth control methods rarely fail, what does that tell us about the other 99%?

Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions

obviously you didn't read the statistics on adoption and viable beings. not everyone wants to be someone's surrogate. but there are those who take that track.

Why does everything in life have to be about what people WANT?

i am too. is it going to be born into a loving and supportive situation. was this planned. or was it a moment of an unforeseen accident. there are children being raped, sexually abused, and you want them to risk their lives because you're concerned.

So what? A woman does not have to keep the child of she was unprepared to have it, as there are plenty of good homes, women who cannot conceive who would give anything for the opportunity to raise a child.

that is a bit to one sided. self doesn't care about the risk to the mother, nor really concerned about the unwanted child. they just want a warm fuzzy. life doesn't work that way when you're dealing with folks that want the perfect but don't want to invest in it.

Who are you referring to that want a warm fuzzy, with folks that want the perfect but don't want to invest in it?

 

[Trailblazer]

babies have nothing to say because they don't have the ability to speak; when there is no breath of life in their bodies. litteraly they can't make a sounds because of no air in the lungs to exhale and form word sounds.

Animals cannot speak either, so does that mean we should take their lives at will?

common sense always said, don't count your chicks until the eggs hatch. even in the bible, there was never a census of the people; which included the unborn.

Sorry, I am not a Christian. I have different scriptures and my own set or morals that represents God's Will for this age and calls us to a higher standard of morality.

"your" god made some people infertile for a reason and it wasn't so those who don't want to have a baby are responsible for them. isn't it time to start dealing with what is vs what might be

And you would know what that reason is?

 

[Rival]

There's an artificial scarcity because most parents are only willing to adopt an infant. There's way more children than prospective parents but if they don't get adopted by age 1 the likelihood they will be goes way down. Though Christian adoption agencies love to discriminate against LGBT parents so that also deflates the pool.

I didn't know this. This is very strange to me. As I don't really like babies, I'd rather adopt at 5 yrs +. I'm thinking of doing this as I'm very tokophobic. So hopefully I'll be the exception!

 

[Fool]

?

So what? A woman does not have to keep the child of she was unprepared to have it, as there are plenty of good homes, women who cannot conceive who would give anything for the opportunity to raise a child.

Who are you referring to that want a warm fuzzy, with folks that want the perfect but don't want to invest in it?

what someone believes is not other self's responsibility, anyone else's, to fulfill. people do not have the right to practice their beliefs directly onto another autonomous person.


there are plenty of children, approximately 23000+ each year that age out of the adoption, where are you families wanting children.

where are they


they are missing in action


they don't want children. they want babies that have no blemishes. they want to form them into their own images.


i could care less how they got pregnant. the point is that they don't want the baby and they shouldn't be saddled having to carry it for nine months; if they don't want it and it's early in the pregnancy. now waiting months and suddenly deciding to have an abortion is another matter.


but its not the responsibility of anyone to fulfill someone else's beliefs.

 

[Fool]

Animals cannot speak either, so does that mean we should take their lives at will?

i have euthanized a number of animals without their permission. they were either in pain, or unable to live. and unless you're a vegetarian, peta person, i don't think you want to play the hypocrite.

Sorry, I am not a Christian. I have different scriptures and my own set or morals that represents God's Will for this age and calls us to a higher standard of morality.

i don't care what you are. your belief is apparent. you want others to fall in alignment with your beliefs.

And you would know what that reason is?

i don't need to know the cause but the effect is apparent. if they want a baby, find someone who wants to help but otherwise don't turn unwanted pregnancies into a babymaking factory

 

[kiwimac]

religious people abuse. the church is notorious for harboring and aiding perpetrators; so its not just the biggest provider, its also one of the biggest perpetrators of abusers


if you do a census in the prisons most everyone chooses a belief system

You are painting religious folk too broadly. Not all religious people abuse nor are all abusers religious.

 

[Trailblazer]

I didn't know this. This is very strange to me. As I don't really like babies, I'd rather adopt at 5 yrs +. I'm thinking of doing this as I'm very tokophobic. So hopefully I'll be the exception!

I never heard that word before but I just looked it up. I was also tokophobic when I was of childbearing age, and that is one reason I never had children. The other reason is that I would never consider having sex until I was married and by then I was 32 years old, and the marriage came with its own set of problems, since we got married three weeks after we met. Aside from that, neither one of us was a 'wanted child' growing up so we were not emotionally prepared to have children, and as you might recall I never really wanted children. Only now that I am too old do I realize what I missed. But life goes on.

 

[Trailblazer]

i don't care what you are. your belief is apparent. you want others to fall in alignment with your beliefs.

I have no interest in anyone falling into alignment with my beliefs, but you seem to want others to fall into alignment with yours.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Indians love babies. It is for economic reasons that the 'haves' do not have more. The 'have-nots' do not care and enjoy bigger families. I have two, would have liked to have more, but my economic situation did not allow that. I miss big families of the yore. Birth-rate in India is generally under control.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Though it is true that younger is still preferred, it doesn't change the fact that most can't because of cost.

As far as Christian agencies, there are enough secular agencies that keeps the pool just as large... but you still have the cost and the red-tape that makes it impossible many times:

Red Tape and Expense Slow Adoptions (Published 1988)

No, there aren't. Faith agencies dominate public options and even recieve public funding, despite ongoing LGBT and other-faith discrimination. Which is why most secular/lgbt/single parents give them the finger and adopt internationally instead.

I agree with you that adopting, especially domestically, and *especially* infants is also cost prohibitive though. Though it's not without reason, as it adds a lot of supplemental help for parents like home evals, counseling, education options. Things that would be part of normal welfare programs for all families if the US weren't so goddamn stupid.