Adam, the son of God?

[OneTwo]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

 

[kellykep]

What is the nature and the role of Jesus that is unclear to you that causes you to make this claims, sir?

 

[outhouse]

What is the nature and the role of Jesus that is unclear to you that causes you to make this claims, sir?

im betting mythology

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

Why would that be?

The Bible does say that Adam was a son of God, but IMO, being someone's son is a binary thing: you either are or you aren't.

 

[Super Universe]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

Humans were nothing more than intelligent animals. Adam and Eve were types of angels created specifically to advance primitive humans. Adam and Eve were to have children on the earth and their children were to mate with the primitive humans in order to give us specific genes that would slowly evolve and enlarge the human brain to the point that the soul could make a connection.

Eve defaulted, she mated with a human. She had become distraught about the success of their mission, part of it was to teach the primitive humans a correct theory of God, something the primitive humans just did not understand. The humans thought that animals, the wind, sun, and moon were gods.

Eve gave birth to Cain, and you know what happened between Cain and Able (Eve's son by Adam). Eve's blending of her angelic genes with a human brought an immediate and large increase in brain size to humans. This is what caused women pain in childbirth, it was not a punishment from God.

 

[idea]

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc. ..

I'll agree with you on the trinity part, but Jesus does say he is the Son of God.

(New Testament | Matthew 27:43) he said, I am the Son of God.

(New Testament | Mark 14:61 - 62) the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the bChrist, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am

etc. etc. the NT is pretty clear about who Jesus is...

 

[kellykep]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..[/QUONATE

The difference between Jesus and Adam is that JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE and Adam is one of His creatures.

 

[OneTwo]

What is the nature and the role of Jesus that is unclear to you that causes you to make this claims, sir?

I don't understand why the Christians say he is the begotten Son of God?
And why they believe in the Holy Trinity?

The Bible does say that Adam was a son of God

To be honest with you, I don't believe everything the Bible says, it has been altered and changed through the years.

JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE

Explain why you believe this?

the NT is pretty clear about who Jesus is

The New Testament was written by man, surely if Jesus (pbuh) wanted his people to know that he was God, the original Bible would have said 'I Jesus the Son of God have....etc' rather than it saying I or We when referring to God himself.

 

[kellykep]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

It is too long but let me try to be a bit succinct here. Christianity evolved from Judaism therefore is a 'child' of Judaism. Judaism is the religion of the Israelites and ultimately of the Jews. The Israelites are the children of Jacob the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham. Abraham aslo had 5 other children from other concubines apart from Ishmael.
The birthright of Abraham was promised to the son of Sarah the wife of Abraham and not to the sons of his concubines. It happens that most of the Arab world from whom Islam originated are the seed of Abraham through his concubines. In competing for the birthright, the great race begun between the children of Serah, excluding Esau, and the children of the concubines of Abraham, including Esau. The similarities and differences that are observed in the Quaran and the Bible reflect this competing theme throughout the history. But the one with the birthright has the truth and the other is a counterfeit. For Christians, we expand on this truth to include Jesus and the New Testament.
If there is harmony between the old testament and the new testament of the Bible and if the Old testament is the Scripture of the Judaist who happens to be the recipient of the birthright, then Jesus is not merely a prophet. he is the INCARNATE SON OF GOD and a person constituting the TRINITY. If this is the birthright I hold from Abraham, why should I give it up for a counterfeit religion that has been attempting to show to the world in vain that it, indeed, has the birthright when in fact it blatantly lies.
If you can accept this, then we can continue with the discussion on the nature of Christ as Christ was the birthright that Judaism failed to realize.

 

[OneTwo]

My point is, that nowhere is the Bible, is the Trinity mentioned, so the belief in Jesus (pbuh)being the Son of God, God himself and the Spirit has formed not from Jesus, but from what others who followed him have said.

Even within the Christian faith there is difference of opinion on who Jesus was, I personally know some Christians who believe he was the Son of God, there are other who don't believe this, and even those who just don't know.

I have never seen such a division of belief on the main principle of what Christianity is founded upon, in any other religion. For example, all the Muslims believe he was a Prophet, and only a Prophet. There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't think that.

As a man who read both the Bible and the Qur'an with an open mind, to determine which of the faiths I would follow, I have come to realise that the Muslims seem to be much more united on their beliefs, and much more certain. Whereas Christians are not, I do want to make the right decision in choosing the correct faith, and it does seem to me that the trinity and Jesus (pbuh) being the Son of God just doesn't make as much sense as the Islamic belief of Jesus (pbuh)

 

[kellykep]

My point is, that nowhere is the Bible, is the Trinity mentioned, so the belief in Jesus (pbuh)being the Son of God, God himself and the Spirit has formed not from Jesus, but from what others who followed him have said.

Even within the Christian faith there is difference of opinion on who Jesus was, I personally know some Christians who believe he was the Son of God, there are other who don't believe this, and even those who just don't know.

I have never seen such a division of belief on the main principle of what Christianity is founded upon, in any other religion. For example, all the Muslims believe he was a Prophet, and only a Prophet. There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't think that.

As a man who read both the Bible and the Qur'an with an open mind, to determine which of the faiths I would follow, I have come to realise that the Muslims seem to be much more united on their beliefs, and much more certain. Whereas Christians are not, I do want to make the right decision in choosing the correct faith, and it does seem to me that the trinity and Jesus (pbuh) being the Son of God just doesn't make as much sense as the Islamic belief of Jesus (pbuh)

So what will you believe - the bible or the Quaran?

 

[OneTwo]

I need to acquire more knowledge before I can say, hence why I joined this forum, and I hope from other peoples answers to my questions. In this thread I was simply asking why Christians believe what they do about Jesus (pbuh).

 

[Super Universe]

Why do you feel you need to choose one over the other? It sounds to me like you're now in the better position, able to choose the things you like from each.

 

[kellykep]

My point is, that nowhere is the Bible, is the Trinity mentioned, so the belief in Jesus (pbuh)being the Son of God, God himself and the Spirit has formed not from Jesus, but from what others who followed him have said.

Even within the Christian faith there is difference of opinion on who Jesus was, I personally know some Christians who believe he was the Son of God, there are other who don't believe this, and even those who just don't know.

I have never seen such a division of belief on the main principle of what Christianity is founded upon, in any other religion. For example, all the Muslims believe he was a Prophet, and only a Prophet. There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't think that.

As a man who read both the Bible and the Qur'an with an open mind, to determine which of the faiths I would follow, I have come to realise that the Muslims seem to be much more united on their beliefs, and much more certain. Whereas Christians are not, I do want to make the right decision in choosing the correct faith, and it does seem to me that the trinity and Jesus (pbuh) being the Son of God just doesn't make as much sense as the Islamic belief of Jesus (pbuh)

So where do we start? How do we talk? Do we have to base on the Bible or the Quaran or progress with a comparative analysis of Christianity. At some point we'll have to include Judaism too.

 

[beerisit]

I need to acquire more knowledge before I can say, hence why I joined this forum, and I hope from other peoples answers to my questions. In this thread I was simply asking why Christians believe what they do about Jesus (pbuh).

Because that's what they've been taught, just as what Muslims believe. Because that's what they've been taught.

 

[Nakosis]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

How many answers do you want?

I suspect the trinity was derived from Greek theology. Adopted into Christian belief. After all the Greek had been running the province for several hundred years trying to wean Judeans off what they saw as a primitive barbaric belief.

Adam was the only begotten Son, Eve the daughter. However these were not being of flesh and blood. The Son, the Logos comes to be vested in the flesh through out the history of man many times. Unique individuals who have the authority to speak as the Son of God. Rama, Krishna, Jesus... Others. Then there are also Prophets who through gnosis speak for God for example Mohamed. However a Prophet is not an incarnation of the Son. The spirit of Adam was vested in Jesus. Therefore Jesus had the authority to speak as/for the Son, Adam.

Eve in the story I suspect is the Gnostic Sophia.

As Christians believe the only way to the Father is through the Son. The Son knows the Father we don't. The Son, Adam, was there in the beginning. Christians make two mistakes however. Identifying with the flesh of Jesus instead of the Spirit of the Son and confusing the Son with the Father.

 

[F0uad]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

You cannot be serious? :areyoucra

With all respect the Bible and the Quran don´t have alot of similarities but differences since both should have come from the same source (God/Allah:swt).

Reading the Bible and Quran doesn't mean you both understand them since you need to know the Tasfir, Historical Context, Classical Arabic and the commentaries mentioned by the companions before understanding the Quran and i am pretty sure there are some for the bible also.

I wouldn't say that the most important is Jesus(p) but the concept of God, i know Jesus(p) is a part of the concept but the most important in my opinion would be the concept instead of a single person. Since there is no forgiving in associating god with others in Islamic and even Biblical teaching.

 

[Gomeza]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

As the religion we refer to today as Christianity was gaining more followers in the early centuries, not all Christians considered the Jewish prophet Yeshua Bar Yoseph to be either the son of God or the Christ. Beliefs varied amongst the numerous splintered Christian factions existing at the time.

By the beginning of the 4th century the Roman empire was beginning to erode from within due to widespread corruption and internal strife to the point where 2 men declared themselves as emperor. One of these men named Constantine was clever enough to realize the importance of this growing religion in winning over the hearts and minds in his favor amongst the contested empire's constituency.

His plan was to gather all of the heads of the splintered factions of Christianity together to create a unified set of beliefs. This meeting was called the council of Nicea and at that meeting they literally voted on whether or not Yeshua Bar Yoseph was "of God" and/or the Christ. Once he was voted in as God this posed a problem in that there already existed a God.

The solution was to adopt the triumvirate from long existing Mythraism with a slight variation to accommodate his being the Christ as well.

So it is little wonder that 'The Holy Trinity' is not mentioned in the bible, it had not been invented until after most of the bible (both OT and NT) had been written.

So I guess the answer to the question posed is: the political will of an astute and powerful Roman emperor is the reason why Jesus Christ is considered the son of God by Christians.

 

[kellykep]

As the religion we refer to today as Christianity was gaining more followers in the early centuries, not all Christians considered the Jewish prophet Yeshua Bar Yoseph to be either the son of God or the Christ. Beliefs varied amongst the numerous splintered Christian factions existing at the time.

By the beginning of the 4th century the Roman empire was beginning to erode from within due to widespread corruption and internal strife to the point where 2 men declared themselves as emperor. One of these men named Constantine was clever enough to realize the importance of this growing religion in winning over the hearts and minds in his favor amongst the contested empire's constituency.

His plan was to gather all of the heads of the splintered factions of Christianity together to create a unified set of beliefs. This meeting was called the council of Nicea and at that meeting they literally voted on whether or not Yeshua Bar Yoseph was "of God" and/or the Christ. Once he was voted in as God this posed a problem in that there already existed a God.

The solution was to adopt the triumvirate from long existing Mythraism with a slight variation to accommodate his being the Christ as well.

So it is little wonder that 'The Holy Trinity' is not mentioned in the bible, it had not been invented until after most of the bible (both OT and NT) had been written.

So I guess the answer to the question posed is: the political will of an astute and powerful Roman emperor is the reason why Jesus Christ is considered the son of God by Christians.

So Yesgua Bar Yosef is Jesus of the biblical NT?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The solution was to adopt the triumvirate from long existing Mythraism ...

Sources?