Adam & Eve: Why No Children in the Garden?

[nutshell]

We know that it wasn't until after the Fall that Adam and Eve were able to fullfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth.

Why?

When they were in the Garden, why were they unable to have children? Was it because they were physically incapable of doing so? Or, was it because they were not yet "like the Gods" and didn't have the knowledge necessary for how to reproduce?

Perhaps, it was a combination of the two.

Obviously, once Eve partakes Adam must too because they can't fulfill the commandment if he's still in the Garden and she's out.

What do you think?

 

[nutshell]

*Bump*


Any LDS posters wanna take a shot at this? I surprised there haven't been any replies.

 

[Bishka]

Hmmm.. I think it's a combination of both. They were in a state of innocence and really did not have that knowledge to procreate.

 

[Katzpur]

*Bump*


Any LDS posters wanna take a shot at this? I surprised there haven't been any replies.

Hi, Nutshell. Actually, I saw your thread earlier today and was going to reply. Then something came up, it disappeared and I forgot. I'm glad you bumped it.

My own feelings (and that's all they are) is that the reason Adam and Eve could not reproduce until after the fall is closely tied to the fact that they could not experience physical death until after the fall. Even though they were, in a sense, "mortal" while in the Garden, they were not subject to death, so they were -- in a way -- immortal. Somehow, creating new life strikes me as being related to dying. I think that it was only after they became mortal that they could do either of these things. (Boy, I explained that terribly. :sorry1: )

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

i thank that Jesus is described as having flesh and bones... No Blood... even in the bible Flesh and Bones... so Adam and eve might have had no understanding of procreation for they didn't know good from evil or they had bodies but no blood, i remember someone explaining it to me this way... there was something about Blood but i do not remember how it relates to it sorry I wish I was a bit more help...

 

[anders]

Before the Fall, they were ignorant. (Created in God's image?!)

After eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they knew what was good, and reproduced.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They were in a state of innocence and really did not have that knowledge to procreate.

Presumably, your God knowingly created them ignorant/innocent. Why then would your God instruct them to do something beyond the understanding/capability that he had created?

It's interesting that "the Fall" becomes the precondition for fulfilling your God's mandate in Gen. 1:28.

 

[SoyLeche]

I found this in the September 1973 New Era:

“Why did the Lord command Adam and Eve to multiply in the Garden of Eden when they could not have children before the fall? This is especially confusing when we have such scriptures as 1 Nephi 3:7, which states ‘… the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.’ ”

Daniel H. Ludlow, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, Sept. 1973, 13
Answer/Daniel H. Ludlow
One important point to consider in this question is whether or not Adam and Eve could have had children while they were in the Garden of Eden. The scriptures do not say Adam and Eve could not have children; they say Adam and Eve would not have had children if they had remained in a state of innocence, not knowing good from evil.
For example, note the words of Lehi in explaining the situation of Adam and Eve before the fall: “And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.” (2 Ne. 2:23. Italics added.) This scripture seems to indicate that Adam and Eve were physically capable of having children in the Garden of Eden (thus they could have had children), but so long as they remained in their state of innocence, they never would have had children. Remember that Adam and Eve were so innocent in the Garden of Eden they didn’t even realize they were naked!
Sometimes it helps to understand a religious question if we ask ourselves, How else could our Heavenly Father have done this? For example, how else could our Heavenly Father have brought about the necessary conditions that resulted from the fall of Adam and Eve? Following are four possibilities, and the only acceptable one is the one followed by the Lord:
1. What if the Lord had created the world in such a way that evil and sin would have been here from the beginning? In this case, God would be responsible for all sin and evil.
2. What if God had created the world in such a way that we never could commit any sin? In other words, what if he had never given us any law? It is true that in such a condition we never could have broken a law (committed sin), and thus there would have been no evil, no pain, or no disease. But if there is no possibility for sin and for the punishment and misery that accompany it, then there is no possibility for good and for the blessings and joy that follow obedience to law. None of us would want that type of world.
3. What if God had created a world where he would give us law (the opportunity of choice) but would not give us free agency (the freedom of choice)? How could there be any real growth in this situation? What development is there if we do things only because we have to do them? Also, how could a just God hold us responsible for our acts if we had no choice in the matter?
4. The other major possibility is the one the Lord followed. He created a world that was without sin or evil, and he placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden in a state of innocence. He then gave law (the opportunity of choice) to Adam and Eve, and he also gave them their free agency (the freedom of choice). Then, and this is a very important point, he did not hold Adam and Eve responsible for any transgression they committed in their state of innocence.
God knew before the earth was ever created that it would be necessary for Adam and Eve to fall so they “would have seed.” Thus, even before the earth was created, Jesus Christ had agreed that he would pay the penalty required by the law of justice for the transgression of the law that resulted in the fall of Adam and Eve. The scriptures refer to the Savior as “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8), and they indicate that Jesus Christ had agreed to bring about the atonement before the earth was ever created (1 Pet. 1:19–20; Eph. 1:4; Moses 5:57; D&C 121:32; Mosiah 18:13; Ether 3:14).
The second part of the question states, in essence, “Why didn’t the Lord prepare the way for Adam and Eve to keep the commandment to multiply?”
The answer to this question is that the Lord did prepare the way.
In this dispensation the Lord has revealed through Joseph Smith additional information concerning the status of Adam and Eve both before and after the fall. In fact, the Lord restored to the Prophet the words of Adam and Eve to each other after they had been driven from the Garden of Eden and had been taught by an angel that Jesus Christ would atone for their transgression unconditionally and also would atone for their own personal sins upon the condition of their repentance.
“And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
“And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.” (Moses 5:10–11. Italics added.)
Gospel topic: Adam and Eve

 

[nutshell]

Presumably, your God knowingly created them ignorant/innocent. Why then would your God instruct them to do something beyond the understanding/capability that he had created?

It's interesting that "the Fall" becomes the precondition for fulfilling your God's mandate in Gen. 1:28.

This is an LDS thread. Start your own if you want to discuss this.

 

[Katzpur]

One important point to consider in this question is whether or not Adam and Eve could have had children while they were in the Garden of Eden. The scriptures do not say Adam and Eve could not have children; they say Adam and Eve would not have had children if they had remained in a state of innocence, not knowing good from evil.

That's really interesting. It sheds some new light on this subject since I've always thought that they "couldn't" and not just "wouldn't." Now, I'm starting to think along a different line of reasoning. They were naked from the start, and yet they did not realize that they were naked until after they had eaten the fruit. I think this is really significant. I think that what the scriptures are saying is that they were in a state of sexual innocence. The fact that they had no idea that they were naked is pretty indicative of the fact that they would have had no idea as to how to go about multiplying and replenishing the earth.

 

[SoyLeche]

That's really interesting. It sheds some new light on this subject since I've always thought that they "couldn't" and not just "wouldn't." Now, I'm starting to think along a different line of reasoning. They were naked from the start, and yet they did not realize that they were naked until after they had eaten the fruit. I think this is really significant. I think that what the scriptures are saying is that they were in a state of sexual innocence. The fact that they had no idea that they were naked is pretty indicative of the fact that they would have had no idea as to how to go about multiplying and replenishing the earth.

Utimately, it's all speculation anyway, so one theory's just about as good as another (well, almost :fsm

 

[jonny]

Presumably, your God knowingly created them ignorant/innocent. Why then would your God instruct them to do something beyond the understanding/capability that he had created?

It's interesting that "the Fall" becomes the precondition for fulfilling your God's mandate in Gen. 1:28.

I see the state that Adam and Eve were in as being similar to a baby. They gained understanding as they experienced life. I don't believe that God won't command us to do things that are beyond our understanding and capacity, but I do believe he will always prepare a way that we can fulfill his commandments. He has also commanded us to be perfect, but this is obviously impossible without the Savior. If everything God commanded was easy we would have no need for his help.

I think that the article Soyleach posted explains the need for the fall pretty well.

 

[isaidit]

Maybe Adam and Eve were children until they ate of the fruit. We know right today little children will run around naked and not think it's wrong. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit they grew up really fast, which was part of the curse and created the timeline. They probably was going to grow older very slow and then get to a certain age and stop aging and not die.They were going to learngradually how to procreate.The timeline caused the aging process to speed up, then death.

 

[Clear]

I do not know the answer to this question as to why Adam and Eve would not have had children.

I do know that one early traditional belief existed that also seems to indicate that Adam and Eve were " sexually unaware" or "immature" to some degree. In the text of Apoc of Adam, when Adam is relating some points from his early history to his son, he speaks of three men who appear to him to teach him certain aspects of his existence. He reveals that, as the “veil” of “darkness fell over our eyes” and the “vigor of our eternal knowledged perished in us”, Adam says “I recognized a sweet desire for your mother”. I have always assumed that Adam was describing a physical attraction he had not felt before. This text does not tell us how this phenomenon occurred, but merely indicated he did not feel this desire before their physical change that was associated with the fall.


“Now I was sleeping in the thought of my heart, and I saw before me three men whose appearance I could not recognize because they were not from the powers of the God who created me. They surpassed [those powers in their] glory. The men [spoke] , saying to me, ‘Rise up, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, the one who came forth from you and from Eve your wife. When I heard these words from those great men who stood before me, we sighted in our hearts, I and Eve. And the Lord, the God who created us, stood in our presence and said to us, ‘Adam, why were you sighing in your hearts? Do you not know that I am God who created you, and that I breathed into you a spirit of life for a living soul?’ “Then darkness fell over our eyes. Then the god who created us created a son from himself [and Eve your mother]...”[then I was defiled] in the thought of my heart. I recognized a sweet desire for your mother. Then the vigor of our eternal knowledge perished in us, and feebleness pursued us. For this reason the days of our life became few, for I knew that I had become subject to the power of death. “Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you what was revealed to me by those men whom I once saw before me. The Apocalypse of Adam 2:1-6-7, ch 3:1;


Clear
eitzviaclk

 

[razor7music]

Let me first start with two qualifiers. First, I am an active member of the LDS Church. Second, I don't claim to have the doctrinal answer to this question.

This topic came up in a Bible study group at work where I am the only Mormon. Non-Mormons feel very strongly about this particular belief, so much that they are willing to support a belief where there is no need for a Savior. No fall=no Savior. It is also the premise for their infant baptisms.

I also note that the answer cannot be resolved by an appeal to the Bible alone. If it did on something as crucial as whether the Savior was always part of God's plan, or a Plan B, there would not be such a chasm in beliefs with LDS.

I have to admit it is confusing. You would think if God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and they couldn't, or didn't know what that meant, they would ask God or there would be more of an explanation in the Bible of why God would give a commandment they could not follow. Of course, as LDS we have additional scripture that explains the opportunity for Adam and Eve to use their free moral agency and choose for themselves, but as I said, it is confusing for those that have the Bible alone to answer this question.

After reading from LDS Church authorities that Adam and Even could not have children before The Fall, and of course I not only believe them but it makes perfect sense with the rest of the Plan of Salvation, I have an opinion. I believe that Adam and Eve not being able to procreate in the Garden and them not noticing/caring about being naked are related. I think they, just like very little children, don’t think about being naked. I think being aware of their nakedness after they partook of the fruit and being ashamed after Lucifer pointed it out to them, has many facets that are not independent of them not being “able” to have children in the Garden.

I’ll leave it at that, because I don’t want to write anything that could be misinterpreted as inappropriate, but hopefully you can see the correlation without me having to explain any further.