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abrahamic - satan
- Thread starter Aqualung
- Start date
Aqualung, you know as well as I do that if Lucifer committed an unpardenable sin. Lucifer had a perfect knowledge of everything. For example, he was in the presence of God the Father and he knew perfectly the Plan of Salvation. Knowing these things he rebelled against God for his own gain. God says many times in the standard works, that if you have a perfect and complete knowledge of everything, and rebell, you'll be punished to hell.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Lucifer was a lesser angel who chose to suspend his path of higher universal learning in order to take a position to oversee the earth. At some point Lucifer rebelled against the idea of God or decided that the long journey to finally achieve paradise and the final joining with God was not worth it.
Lucifer was able to convince other lesser angels and humans as well that there was/is no God.
The higher angels took quick action, Lucifer was removed within a day but time is not the same for them as it is for us. One thousand of our years is only one of their days. So in one more days time (1,000 of our years) Lucifer will be judged. If found guilty of denial of diety he will cease to exist. Of Lucifer, nothing will remain.
Now how do the angels correct Lucifer's illegal intereference in our development without interfering themselves? Periodic revealings of the truth (all the stories of the bible and other religions). Unfortunately humans alter these revelations. Soddom and Gomorrah, a human city typical of the age with both good and bad was hit by an asteroid but for some reason God gets the blame. God does not kill. Please understand this for it is the most important thing you could ever learn. GOD DOES NOT KILL!
Lucifer was able to convince other lesser angels and humans as well that there was/is no God.
The higher angels took quick action, Lucifer was removed within a day but time is not the same for them as it is for us. One thousand of our years is only one of their days. So in one more days time (1,000 of our years) Lucifer will be judged. If found guilty of denial of diety he will cease to exist. Of Lucifer, nothing will remain.
Now how do the angels correct Lucifer's illegal intereference in our development without interfering themselves? Periodic revealings of the truth (all the stories of the bible and other religions). Unfortunately humans alter these revelations. Soddom and Gomorrah, a human city typical of the age with both good and bad was hit by an asteroid but for some reason God gets the blame. God does not kill. Please understand this for it is the most important thing you could ever learn. GOD DOES NOT KILL!
Super Universe
Defender of God
Where do I get that 1,000 years is equal to one day. If you are asking what biblical verse I can quote I will use this one:
2 Peter 3:8 (New International Version)
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
But do not make a small box and paste the insides with the pages of only one book. There is a universe out there and many, many, revealings have taken place. Has the bible been written in a single seating?
2 Peter 3:8 (New International Version)
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
But do not make a small box and paste the insides with the pages of only one book. There is a universe out there and many, many, revealings have taken place. Has the bible been written in a single seating?
I don't know how to quote, so this is in response Superuniverse's post. We believe that we were all spiritulally begotton by God the Father, thus being all spirit children of Heavenly Father. We knew Heavenly Father and we talked w/ him, so it was not possible for us to think he wasn't there when we could see him. Anyway, we were all there, including Christ and Lucifer, and Heavenly Father presented a plan. The plan was that we would go to an earth that would be created for us, gain a physical body, and while there be tested to see if we are worthy to live w/ our Father in Heaven again. The key component of this plan was man's free agency. But, Lucifer presented a plan that would take away man's agency, so everybody would be saved and Lucifer would get all of the glory. After this a war was fought in heaven, and Lucifer and 1/3 of the host of Heaven were cast into hell. He knew perfectly that his plan was totally in defience of Gods will, thus rebelling against God after having a perfect knowledge of the truth.
Super Universe
Defender of God
The angels do not know God. They do not meet with God on any basis, they do not know where God is exactly or what He looks like. They do not even know His name because God has never revealed it. Only the Son knows these things and only through Him (literally) can God be found.
Everything the other sentient beings (angels included) do, they do on faith.
So much is written in the bible, but it does not even scratch the surface.
Everything the other sentient beings (angels included) do, they do on faith.
So much is written in the bible, but it does not even scratch the surface.
Super Universe
Defender of God
God said "I am". He did not say that was His name. Elohim. Yahwey. Jehovah. God. Creator. First Cause. The arrangement of the letters do not matter as long as we understand their significance.
I introduced myself with "Greetings!" but please don't call me that.
Matthew 11
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
I introduced myself with "Greetings!" but please don't call me that.
Matthew 11
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
SoyLeche
meh...
There is such a thing as postponing your repentance untill it is "everlastingly too late" (the phrase is in the Book of Mormon, but I don't have the reference right now, and don't have time to look it up. Please forgive me).
To set some background, and I'm not an expert, so please bear with me. In LDS theology there are 2 "estates" - the first being the premortal world, and the second being this life. Only those who kept their first estate were able to move on to the second. Now, I'm not entirely sure what exactly was involved in "keeping" the first estate, but it probably had a lot to do with siding with God in the War in Heaven. Satan and his followers didn't keep their first estate, so their progression has been stopped - by their own decisions. I look at it kind of like they passed some point of no return - whether this is a temporal thing (was there a deadline they missed for their repentance?), or whether it is more atune to being something inside- they are so far gone that they can't come back - but the first estate is over, and they didn't keep it.
I just came up with most of that while I was reading other posts, so I don't have much documentation. Take it for what it's worth.
To set some background, and I'm not an expert, so please bear with me. In LDS theology there are 2 "estates" - the first being the premortal world, and the second being this life. Only those who kept their first estate were able to move on to the second. Now, I'm not entirely sure what exactly was involved in "keeping" the first estate, but it probably had a lot to do with siding with God in the War in Heaven. Satan and his followers didn't keep their first estate, so their progression has been stopped - by their own decisions. I look at it kind of like they passed some point of no return - whether this is a temporal thing (was there a deadline they missed for their repentance?), or whether it is more atune to being something inside- they are so far gone that they can't come back - but the first estate is over, and they didn't keep it.
I just came up with most of that while I was reading other posts, so I don't have much documentation. Take it for what it's worth.
You are all talking about Lucifer's fall, yet in earler translations,
. John J. Robinson in A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48 explains:
"In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel.
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light."
In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").
The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.
Christ identifies himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." "
So, Lucifer, may indeed be a good angel at this moment in time. If Christians are also to believe God is all-loving, why would He/She condemn Lucifer to Hell and not use His/Her love to heal Lucifer and keep him in heaven, where all God's children belong and have never left?
. John J. Robinson in A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48 explains:
"In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel.
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light."
In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").
The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.
Christ identifies himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." "
So, Lucifer, may indeed be a good angel at this moment in time. If Christians are also to believe God is all-loving, why would He/She condemn Lucifer to Hell and not use His/Her love to heal Lucifer and keep him in heaven, where all God's children belong and have never left?