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Abortion and Sentience

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Hypersonic, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Hypersonic

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    Since I am fairly new I thought I would open up a discussion regarding the issue of abortion but also the issue of fetal sentience and the ethical implications in abortion. Anti-Abortion activist normally make the argument that life begins at conception--False

    Actually, life begins prior to conception since both the sperm and egg cells are living things! So since life exist prior to conception perhaps it is best to target the main ethical issue here which is sentience. From what I do know to experience pain, one needs pain receptors and from my understanding the development of the neocortex which fetuses don't develop until the third trimester--at best seven weeks in the fetus develops a brain stem. I do not believe fetuses that grow into babies are even self-aware. So I guess the issue with me is a being that cannot experience pain or isn't self aware how does abortion become unethical prior to the third trimester?
     
  2. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Well, first off, do you meant sentient or sapient? Because I've carried a child, and believe me, a fetus is definitely sentient! I think you meant sapient, but that isn't based on pain receptors.

    :facepalm:
    1) Just because you can't pick up on an obvious implication does not make the argument false.
    2) It's not only "anti-abortions activists" who believe that A PERSON'S life begins at conception.
     
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  3. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    I am unashamedly pro-life. Just because I don't agree with you on certain things doesn't mean that they are false. I try to stay out of abortion debates because I can get really passionate in my beliefs- not good for me and not good for you.
     
  4. Hypersonic

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    False. I mean sentince (or sapience) both involving higher brain function which fetuses don't have. Mentioning pain receptors was an argument made by anti-abortion activist in the past who assert the belief that fetuses being sentient also feel pain. I am demonstrating that a neocortex must be present to have pain receptors. As I said earlier, at best, a brain stem is developed after seven weeks. As far as your statement 2) can you please tell who else believes that nonsense?

    By the way can you demonstrate how your fetus (now a child I am sure) was sentient lacking a neocortex and higher brain function prior to the third trimester?
     
    #4 Hypersonic, Jul 16, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  5. Hypersonic

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    Well by all means jump in. I respect religious views and am quite aware how sensitive it can be. Let me ask you something. Given the scientific proof that awareness starts even sometime past the trisemester how does your religious view reconcile with the reality that perhaps if a woman gets an abortion, the fetus isn't aware, involves no pain, and essentially the fetus doesn't know what occured?
     
  6. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    No, they're not interchangeable. An earthworm is sentient, and so is a fetus.

    I do. So do several other of my pro-choice friends. It's not nonsense, it's obvious scientific fact. An individual human life begins when sperm meets egg. Cope.
     
  7. Hypersonic

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    No. Life begins prior to conception because sperm and egg cells are living? You cannot suddenly begin with life after something is already living unless your idea ofnlife is greatly skewed from mine which it seems that it is! But nonetheless it still is nonsense

    If I may add spaience involves great judgment, sentience involves having the ability for perception. A fetus in the first and second trimester doesn't have a developed forebrain to make judgments nor does it have higher areas of the brain to be self-aware. This is scientific fact. Tell me how did you come up with the idea that fetuses are sapient when they lack a frotal lobe? Which I might add is an area which is activated when making judgments.

    Sapience and Sentience are not interchangable yes but they involve higher brain function.
     
  8. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Actually, that really is when an individual human life begins. Now, at what point this individual becomes a person is another matter entirely.
     
  9. Hypersonic

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    Thank you I am glad you got it! This is where we get to the point of sentience. Are fetuses persons if they are self-aware? Or if they feel pain? I know fetuses are entities and are living but do we say personhood starts when there is an actual body?
     
  10. horizon_mj1

    horizon_mj1 Well-Known Member

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    All I have to say on the subject is this: if you say you believe in God and you believe that God is Merciful, why would God place a soul into a being that cannot even breath for itself? If you want to believe in this cruelty, that is up to you, but I highly doubt Divinity would make such a decision:rolleyes:
     
  11. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Good questions, and i don't really have an answer for them.
    I prefer to think on terms of parasite and non-parasite.
    It is just much easier for me.

    Some do, others don't.
    There isn't an actual consensus on this.
     
  12. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    That's why I asked whether you meant sentient or sapient, genius. :facepalm:
     
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  13. Acim

    Acim Revelation all the time

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    I agree. It is false to say that normally anti-abortion activists make this argument. Instead, they normally argue that a human child's life begins at conception.
     
  14. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    To be more accurate, they usually argue that: (a human child's) life begins at conception.

    The text between parentheses is often omitted.
     
  15. Acim

    Acim Revelation all the time

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    But I would say assumed. And also argued. The initial proposition in an argument may be that which omits the other words, but I think many pro-lifers wouldn't say "all life begins with conception." Instead, individual human child's life (all) begin with conception.
     
  16. Hypersonic

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    Well genius the title was kind of obvious
     
  17. Hypersonic

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    Yeah but that is normally flawed since gestation isn't guranteed. Also I pose the question about living sperm cells and eggs cells that are living
     
  18. Storm

    Storm ThrUU the Looking Glass

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    Yes... almost as obvious as your ignorance of the difference between the two. Now, would you like to have a discussion, or do you prefer to keep making a fool of yourself?
     
  19. Hypersonic

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    Actually you were foolish enough to ask the question, but sure please show your lack of an ability to prove your argument.
     
  20. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

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    there is a medical condition, im not sure of its name, but its a condition where the pain receptors dont respond to pain. There are also paraplegics who have no sensations at all....yet they are very much alive

    i dont think the feeling of 'pain' is the indicator for whether a life is a life.
     
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