Abandoning christianity, contradicts my beliefs.

[Tammie]

Too many verses in the nt are contradicting certain religious beliefs, that I have. Im abandoning trying to justify verses, because these verses are throughout the nt.

Not sure what the discussion is, here, however if you are still a believer, just not a christian, I suppose that could be a topic.

With all the years my husband and I have been in the Word of God, we are starting to understand that what seemed contradictory before is not contradictory now. The arguments between the different believers (of the bible and not different religions) is that one will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the Old Covenant and the letter of the law, viewing the New Testament only through the eyes of the law, and the other believer will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the New Testament and will base their scriptures and beliefs in the New Covenant and the Spirit of the Law. And to make it even more interesting, there are some believers that are between the two not quite yet understanding the difference between the two and end up putting so many scriptures in their comments that one trying to find out how they answered it can get lost in the translation.

 

[Desert Snake]

By the way, in my threads addressing
John 1:18
John 6:45
John 6:46
John 6:47

When interpreted incorrectly, it isn't "subjective". When incorrect, they go against Jesus's own inferences.
So, no, unless those verses are justified in many common misinterpretations, hence belief, there is no tricky 'subjectivity', to it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Too many verses in the nt are contradicting certain religious beliefs, that I have. Im abandoning trying to justify verses, because these verses are throughout the nt.

Not sure what the discussion is, here, however if you are still a believer, just not a christian, I suppose that could be a topic.

With all the years my husband and I have been in the Word of God, we are starting to understand that what seemed contradictory before is not contradictory now. The arguments between the different believers (of the bible and not different religions) is that one will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the Old Covenant and the letter of the law, viewing the New Testament only through the eyes of the law, and the other believer will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the New Testament and will base their scriptures and beliefs in the New Covenant and the Spirit of the Law. And to make it even more interesting, there are some believers that are between the two not quite yet understanding the difference between the two and end up putting so many scriptures in their comments that one trying to find out how they answered it can get lost in the translation.

I believe that if something in the NT, seems to contradict the OT, there is something wrong. Your noting this is completely contextual to the premise subject.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They'd watched the Babylonians do that to their own babes so what do you think their emotional state is going to be? It's poetry you know that right?

If someone would be "happy" by revenge killing babies they are beyond cruel and sadistic. To even think it would make you happy suggest a very dire moral deficiency.

 

[shunyadragon]

Too many verses in the nt are contradicting certain religious beliefs, that I have. Im abandoning trying to justify verses, because these verses are throughout the nt.

Not sure what the discussion is, here, however if you are still a believer, just not a christian, I suppose that could be a topic.

With all the years my husband and I have been in the Word of God, we are starting to understand that what seemed contradictory before is not contradictory now. The arguments between the different believers (of the bible and not different religions) is that one will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the Old Covenant and the letter of the law, viewing the New Testament only through the eyes of the law, and the other believer will base their scriptures and beliefs in only the New Testament and will base their scriptures and beliefs in the New Covenant and the Spirit of the Law. And to make it even more interesting, there are some believers that are between the two not quite yet understanding the difference between the two and end up putting so many scriptures in their comments that one trying to find out how they answered it can get lost in the translation.

Your response in a way mirrors that of the author of this thread @Disciple of Jesus in that you resolve the contradictions in the Bible in a matter to justify what you believe. This is the way of many diverse conflicting interpretations and many churches, each justifying what the believe pragmatically.

Will they ever learn?


Pick and choose the shoes that fit.
What pleases thee may not please me.
Worn paths of dust and ashes these shoes take.
The shoes of comfort are not the fit for thee nor me.

 

[shunyadragon]

If someone would be "happy" by revenge killing babies they are beyond cruel and sadistic. To even think it would make you happy suggest a very dire moral deficiency.

Ancient tribal actions are often flawed with 'dire moral deficiencies' just as the tribal actions and justifications of those actions are today.

 

[kjw47]

. . . including the JW.



Have Jesus?!?!?! How odd and obtuse. JW is just one of the 34,000 making the claim..

I have studied both sides of the coin--The Facts of Israelite God worship history and the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers= 0 doubt in all creation, In every translation on earth. They don't teach what Jesus actually taught in buildings called-church--They are paid to teach dogma first and a little of what Jesus taught.
Maybe you can explain to all how God has a God--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--because Jesus assures all he has a God-his Father.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have studied both sides of the coin--The Facts of Israelite God worship history and the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers= 0 doubt in all creation, In every translation on earth. They don't teach what Jesus actually taught in buildings called-church--They are paid to teach dogma first and a little of what Jesus taught.

There are many sides of the coin than you can count. You choose one, like thousands of other different versions, to justify what you believe.

Maybe you can explain to all how God has a God--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--because Jesus assures all he has a God-his Father.

I am not God, nor you, therefore neither of use can what God is nor is not. As a Baha'i I believe in one God, and only one God not definable fallible human beliefs, and I do not claim that my belief is the one and only true belief as you do, and claim all other alternative beliefs are evil.

It remains that JW is one of 34,000 claims of truth from the fallible human perspective.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ancient tribal actions are often flawed with 'dire moral deficiencies' just as the tribal actions and justifications of those actions are today.

I didn't claim we are perfect today. However, the moral failures and deficiencies of the Bible make it unsuitable for a moral guide, and anything in it, such as Psalms, is not universally inspiring. Myself, I don't buy into the silliness that is proclaiming yourself a sinner from the moment of your conception.

 

[Tammie]

shunyadragon said:
Your response in a way mirrors that of the author of this thread @Disciple of Jesus in that you resolve the contradictions in the Bible in a matter to justify what you believe. This is the way of many diverse conflicting interpretations and many churches, each justifying what the believe pragmatically.

Am I bad? I copied and pasted what the author said and replied to it without putting the authors name of saying it. My point was to show that once you understand the meaning between both of these terms of Old Covenant and Letter of the Law verses the New Covenant and the Spirit of the Law....You can then understand where that person is coming from and why they have answered it the way that they have.

Disciple of Jesus said:
I believe that if something in the NT, seems to contradict the OT, there is something wrong. Your noting this is completely contextual to the premise subject.

If you would read my comment correctly, you would seen that I stated that my husband and I have been in the Word of God for many years, and that even though some things started out as seeming contradictory, that nothing is contradictory now.

 

[kjw47]

There are many sides of the coin than you can count. You choose one, like thousands of other different versions, to justify what you believe.



I am not God, nor you, therefore neither of use can what God is nor is not. As a Baha'i I believe in one God, and only one God not definable fallible human beliefs, and I do not claim that my belief is the one and only true belief as you do, and claim all other alternative beliefs are evil.

It remains that JW is one of 34,000 claims of truth from the fallible human perspective.

Jesus appointed his teachers here on earth over all of his belongings here in these last days-Matt 24:45) at the proper time truths were revealed-- Daniel 12:4--- Gods own angels didn't know those truths( 1Peter 1:12) until here in these last days. No mortal knew them either until those teachers were appointed. It kept satan and his angels in spiritual darkness so he couldn't screw it all up into oblivion like he tried through the religion that came out of Rome and her 33,999 branches.( Mark 3:24-26)2Thess 2:3)

 

[shunyadragon]

I didn't claim we are perfect today. However, the moral failures and deficiencies of the Bible make it unsuitable for a moral guide, and anything in it, such as Psalms, is not universally inspiring. Myself, I don't buy into the silliness that is proclaiming yourself a sinner from the moment of your conception.

We disagree, because you are taking an absolute stance based on a selective citation. You greatly underestimate the imperfections ot today world. It is universally inspiring for much of th ePslams taking into consideration the faults of ancient tribal beliefs.

 

[shunyadragon]

Jesus appointed his teachers here on earth over all of his belongings here in these last days-Matt 24:45) at the proper time truths were revealed-- Daniel 12:4--- Gods own angels didn't know those truths( 1Peter 1:12) until here in these last days. No mortal knew them either until those teachers were appointed. It kept satan and his angels in spiritual darkness so he couldn't screw it all up into oblivion like he tried through the religion that came out of Rome and her 33,999 branches.( Mark 3:24-26)2Thess 2:3)

So what?!?!?! That does not justify any one of hundreds of interpretations of the above citations over another. JW is relatively recent among many that began in the 1800's, and there is no reason to accept this latter day claim of absolute truth over any other.

JW like many of the fundamentalist churches of Christianity face many problems concerning the objective evidence of the known history of the scriptures and contemporary science concerning the geologic history of our universe, earth, life and scriptures.

JW takes a contradictory and confusing absolute stance ot claims of 'Truth' that are total incontradiction with even a reasonable consideration of the evidence,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You greatly underestimate the imperfections ot today world.

Are you certain of this claim? Even if we do this tit-for-tat, the Bible neglected to mention many things that have become moral improvements, such as slavery being banned nearly at a global level, laws that prohibit domestic violence and child abuse, and women not being expected to stay at home and be submissive to their husband. We still have a long ways to go, but today, unlike Biblical law, it is illegal to kill someone for apostasy and we consider freedom to believe as you will an important human right. We still have violence, yes, but for much of the world people have never been less likely to die from a violent act or act of war.

It is universally inspiring for much of th ePslams taking into consideration the faults of ancient tribal beliefs.

It isn't universally inspiring. Indeed, I would wager most of the global population can only recall, at most, a few verses from that book.

 

[PureX]

And we are left with defining 'christianity'? Why?

Because we are humans, capable of determining for ourselves what the truth is. Certainly as capable as those humans who would like to dictate to us what the truth is. And in the end, we are each responsible for the truth we accept and maintain, and express through our actions.

If, and I do, disagree, with many christian groups, even on theology matters, why does it make sense to say it is the same category, religiously?

Well, the way we encircle information sets is complex and multi-leveled. We have headings and sub-headings and sub/sub-headings, and so on. "Christianity" is a very large and inclusive label, within which there are a great many sub-headings, and tangential ideas. All representing variations of a common theme. I, for example, am non-religious, agnostic, taoist and Christian. That means that I accept and practice the philosophical ideal that I understand 'Christ' to be presenting to humanity. But I do not accept or practice any religious beliefs as most Christian religious groups espouse and practice them. Such as that Jesus was God, and so on. I am still a "Christian", but only within a small non-religious subset of the whole of Christianity.

Just as I am also a philosophical taoist, which means I am a taoist, but limited to within the large, but lesser category of taoists that are non-religious (i.e.; philosophical). And likewise, I am an agnostic, but only within the sub-category of agnostics that still choose to place faith in the hope that "God" as I personally understand that term, exists.

We humans are complicated beings that can believe any number of truths at the same time, not all of which exactly align and enmesh with each other.

 

[shunyadragon]

Calm down? My religious background is Messianism, I don't have to freak out over a premise like the one I posted, since my beliefs are inherent to the Bible.

You posted this?!?!?

A revised bible isn't christianity, thusly, because it contradicts the usual book adherence, and, also, the basic interpretation.

What is the revised Bible? What is the 'usual' (unrevised) Bible?

 

[Desert Snake]

You posted this?!?!?

{quote] A revised bible isn't christianity, thusly, because it contradicts the usual book adherence, and, also, the basic interpretation.

What is the revised Bible? What is the 'usual' (unrevised) Bible?

English Bible for many, is kjv. Greek text can be inferenced. Obviously if you've compared them, you note differences. Completely logical, since, we quote kjv, and, people do get meaning from the verses, whether directly or cross referenced, or whatever.


Mountain out of a molehill

 

[shunyadragon]

It isn't universally inspiring. Indeed, I would wager most of the global population can only recall, at most, a few verses from that book.

Christians, Muslims, Baha'is and Jews know the Psalms very well worldwide, and your highly selective citation of the Psalms does not reflect the whole book.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Too many verses in the nt are contradicting certain religious beliefs, that I have. Im abandoning trying to justify verses, because these verses are throughout the nt.

I recognize your username from your heavy posting, but I never knew you were attempting to justify the NT. I think you have mostly been quiet about your interests, and this seems like a major information share relatively speaking. Good to know, and I hope you are enjoying your internet journey.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christians, Muslims, Baha'is and Jews know the Psalms very well worldwide

I doubt it. It was shown, for example, in a study that Christians tended to be less informed and knowledgeable of the Bible than Agnostics and Atheists.They probably know it was allegedly written by David, might know it has something to do with music, but the contents therein I would wager most are very ignorant of.

and your highly selective citation of the Psalms does not reflect the whole book.

I can cite more, if you wish. From the very start Psalms is very off putting if you aren't a believer, and it sets the stage for a "holier than thou" attitude towards non-believers and believers alike.