A Sin? or Not a Sin? that is the Question!

[A. Ben-Shema]

On another forum, in a thread entitled: "DEFINITION OF SIN", someone stated:

"God's already given determinations are indeed already given, and they're not all that hard to see.
In the case of what sin is, God has already communicated that."

So I asked this poster if consuming blood from any animals would be considered a sin by God, to which he avoided a simple yes:yes: or no:no: reply.

I would thus like to know the simple 'yes' or 'no' answer to this question from all the self proclaimed Christians here.

Of course I'd like to know your reasons, but please start your posts with a simple Yes (it's a sin) or No (it's not a sin) to consume blood of animals today.:drool:

Thanks ~ PLU

 

[Booko]

Well, I'm sure using loaded language like "self-proclaimed" Christians will just get them out in droves to post in this thread.

 

[Popeyesays]

Kosher and Halal require allowing the blood to drain from the slaughtered animal. I do not see where Christianity supports that strict a dietary law.
.

We all deal with sin in this life, does one think that God does not know that?

Regards,
Scott
If you're going to worry about sin, don't forget that God hjas as much mercy as anyone could possibly require, and as much forgiveness

 

[Father Heathen]

Kosher and Halal require allowing the blood to drain from the slaughtered animal.

Why is this important to god, and how/why did Jesus' arrival change these laws for Christians?

 

[Scott1]

Of course I'd like to know your reasons, but please start your posts with a simple Yes (it's a sin) or No (it's not a sin) to consume blood of animals today.

No (it's not a sin).

Why:
"Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: "Whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him. . . (Thus he declared all foods clean.). . . What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts. . ." In presenting with divine authority the definitive interpretation of the Law, Jesus found himself confronted by certain teachers of the Law who did not accept his interpretation of the Law, guaranteed though it was by the divine signs that accompanied it. This was the case especially with the sabbath laws, for he recalls, often with rabbinical arguments, that the sabbath rest is not violated by serving God and neighbor, which his own healings did."
CCC #582

Shalom,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Why is this important to god, and how/why did Jesus' arrival change these laws for Christians?

An animal not promptly bled has meat that will go very bad very quickly.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

No (it's not a sin).

Why:
"Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: "Whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him. . . (Thus he declared all foods clean.). . . What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts. . ." In presenting with divine authority the definitive interpretation of the Law, Jesus found himself confronted by certain teachers of the Law who did not accept his interpretation of the Law, guaranteed though it was by the divine signs that accompanied it. This was the case especially with the sabbath laws, for he recalls, often with rabbinical arguments, that the sabbath rest is not violated by serving God and neighbor, which his own healings did."
CCC #582

Shalom,
Scott

Eh? That pithy philosophical musing on the virtues & vices of the heart is through some bizarre logic interpretated as a metaphor for a recommended diet thats considered the definitive authority on matter the parting of which is a sin?

Scott1 you have got to be kidding. Please tell me its a joke. I just don't think I can cope thinking that people go around believing things like that based on something so flimsy.

 

[Dunemeister]

Eh? That pithy philosophical musing on the virtues & vices of the heart is through some bizarre logic interpretated as a metaphor for a recommended diet thats considered the definitive authority on matter the parting of which is a sin?

Scott1 you have got to be kidding. Please tell me its a joke. I just don't think I can cope thinking that people go around believing things like that based on something so flimsy.

It's only flimsy if you think the word of Jesus on a matter is flimsy. But perhaps a fuller citation would have helped:

Now when the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around him, they noticed that some of his disciples were eating with defiled hands, that is, without washing them. (For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they thoroughly wash their hands, thus observing the tradition of the elders; and they do not eat anything from the market unless they wash it; and there are also many other traditions that they observe, the washing of cups, pots, and bronze kettles.) So the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, ‘Why do your disciples not live* according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?’ He said to them,

‘Isaiah prophesied rightly about you hypocrites, as it is written,

“This people honours me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching human precepts as doctrines.”
​

You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition.’

Then he said to them, ‘You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! For Moses said, “Honour your father and your mother”; and, “Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.” But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, “Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban” (that is, an offering to God)— then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.’

Then he called the crowd again and said to them, ‘Listen to me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a person that by going in can defile, but the things that come out are what defile.’*

When he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about the parable. He said to them, ‘Then do you also fail to understand? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile, since it enters not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?’ (Thus he declared all foods clean.) And he said, ‘It is what comes out of a person that defiles. For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.’

Christians have traditionally appealed to the bolded passage to justify their abandonment of certain traditions, specifically hand-washing and dietary restrictions. Jesus points out that their tradition, at many points, violates the heart of the Mosaic message, which was about compassion and justice, not about washing hands or denying yourself particular foods. God's desires for human flourishing trump traditions whose sole object is to fastidiously maintain secondary practices. According to Jesus, a person who lives justly and compassionately will not be defiled if he eats with unwashed hands. Nor will he be defiled if he violates dietary laws.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Christians have traditionally appealed to the bolded passage to justify their abandonment of certain traditions, specifically hand-washing and dietary restrictions. Jesus points out that their tradition, at many points, violates the heart of the Mosaic message, which was about compassion and justice, not about washing hands or denying yourself particular foods. God's desires for human flourishing trump traditions whose sole object is to fastidiously maintain secondary practices. According to Jesus, a person who lives justly and compassionately will not be defiled if he eats with unwashed hands. Nor will he be defiled if he violates dietary laws.

Ok, finger off the panic button. Thanks.

 

[Heneni]

No it is not a sin.

This is hard to understand but god basically tells chrstians that they can do just exactly what they want.

The law was giving to result in life, but no one could keep the law, so death still reigned.

When there is no law there are no rules and regulations. And there you go, Jesus set you free from the law.

Whatever you decide to do, will have consequences, god not prescribing what we should and should not do, but allows us to find that out for ourselves. If you want to be close to god, you will soon realise what type of things drive you away from him. If your heart is turned away from him, no amount of sinning will bother you. But if your heart is full of love for him, you will feel very uncomfortable when you attempt to do some things. Even the thought of doing some things will make you feel uncomfortable. God says, everything is permitted, but not all things are beneficial to you.

How then do you know what is good for you and what is not?. Check your conscience. A god given gift to keep you on the right track. If your conscience is not working properly, then you are straying.

So then, never do anything that you will feel guilty about, because then you have sinned. Sinned against your conscience. Your conscience is your light. If the light inside of you is darkness how dark it is! Your conscience is your light.

If you want to convince yourself that murder, adultery, idolatory, fornication and stuff like that is ok, and you do these things without any sense of remorse, you can be sure your light isnt working. And god said, you will not see his kingdom. Since your conscience isnt a light to you but a snare. And repenting from something you think isnt wrong will never happenen either.

It is for this reason that god writes his law, the law being what is good for us and what is not good for us, on our hearts. Do what you want, but the law written on your heart will cause your conscience to respond correctly to the wrong you want to do.

If you do somehting that goes against your conscience, you suffer wrong. Which is why all things are permitted but not all things are beneficial to you. Suffering for wrong is not nice. But the suffering being beneficial to you to correct your steps.
It helps you clear your consience again, and to remain on the straight and narrow.

The people of the world are not under Gods law. They are a law unto themselves. They are therefore judged by their own words and their own idea of what is right and wrong, and god wont judge you according to what you did wrong from his perspective, but for not doing what you preached to be wrong. Everytime you say it is wrong to lie, if you lie, you will be judged by it. If you are a christian and you lie your consience will burn! It will quickly lead to repentance since you cant stand the burning! And if you repent, you are forgiven. But if you are in the world, then you will lie without feeling remorse, but will just be happy you got away with it. Gods children never get away from doing wrong. They suffer for their wrongs, and that leads to repentance, which means you get back on track.

For the world, there is an upcoming judgement. They will be in the court of god, where all the people you lied to will be present and there evidence will be presented and you will be judged by a court. Israel will for one be judged by the twelve disciples. The hypocrites will be judged by moses. Whoever you subscribe to as a light for your conscience, will be your judge. If you are an atheist and dont believe in god or the devil, then there will be a converted atheist somewhere that will come to the witness stand. If you use the devil as a light for your conscience he will judge you for everytime you did good when he wanted you to do no such thing!. If you use your religion to be a light to your conscience, religious people will judge you. Id rather have god me my judge!

The children of god dont come up for a coming judgement, since they are judged immediately . Their judge standing right at the door. The consequences of those wrongs dont go away in their life, they will suffer for it, so therefore no upcoming court case for them.

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil, for they rod and they staff,(both instruments for correcting and directing your conscience) comfort me.

Sin is anything that is not beneficial to your relationship with god. So since food has little to do with your relationship with him, i dont think it matters. But being a glutton, is not beneficial to you!

Heneni

 

[Father Heathen]

An animal not promptly bled has meat that will go very bad very quickly.

Regards,
Scott

How did Jesus' coming negate this and other OT laws Christians no longer follow?

 

[Popeyesays]

How did Jesus' coming negate this and other OT laws Christians no longer follow?

Paul, mainly.

n Baha`i text there are only two dietary laws:

1) While you may use the hide, feathers or skin of an animal found dead in a trap, you cannot the flesh of it.

2) One cannot stick one's fingers into a communal bowl of food.

Other than that no food is "unclean".

Regards,
Scott.

 

[Dunemeister]

How did Jesus' coming negate this and other OT laws Christians no longer follow?

The Church has had a helluva time being consistent to what degree the OT law has been set aside in favor of "the law of Christ." There's no doubt that Jesus ushered in something new -- there's something new about the New Testament, after all -- but exactly which laws have been fulfilled/replaced, and which ones remain in effect, and what, if any, new laws did Christ bring?

There are some general answers in tradition. One answer has been that the New Testament affirms the moral principles of the Old Testament, but not the specific "case law" or commands. It's a tortured business getting more specific than this, but it seems a path well-worn.

Another answer has been that Christ has fulfilled all the OT law, and so none of it applies to his followers. Instead, Christ instituted a totally new law. This is a radical position, not shared by all flavors of Christianity, but it's at least a viable option.

 

[lunamoth]

Yeah I personally think that Christ ushered in no law but the one written on our hearts.

 

[Booko]

Why is this important to god, and how/why did Jesus' arrival change these laws for Christians?

I've no idea why God would care, but draining the blood will keep the meat from spoiling so fast. Anyone who's field dressed game knows that much...at least I hope.

 

[crystalonyx]

There is no such thing as "sin". Consuming the blood of animals could have harmful effects, depends on the circumstances.